Hi all,
As you may have seen me mention in other threads, I have two 3 year old Orandas that I got a few days ago. I am new to Orandas, so I'm getting used to what's normal for them. One of the Orandas is active all of the time. But the other seems to rest on his face and nap for a lot of the time. The last two days, it seems that he's been resting on his face more than swimming about, particularly in the afternoon. He is very active at meal times mind you. I've been assured that the 1mm size white spots on his wen are wen growth. I'm still worried about this resting though. Can anyone put my mind at ease?

Resting on his face is not normal no. What are your tank readings for ammonia/nitrites?

Yesterday I got the water tested. It said a really tiny amount of ammonia. Nitrites 0.

Branjie when you say on his face do you mean head-standing...or tilting forward a little as a large wenned fish might do at rest. And how long is he bottom sitting for at a time. Hours/minutes? What are you feeding? Is it the same as he had at the LFS...just trying to get a better picture of what's up. A lot depends on the duration of the 'sitting'. Is the temp cnstant and does he 'sit' after eating or water change?
How many water changes have you done since 2 days ago when you got him? Is it just the gravel you transferred to help with the cycle. I cant remember. It's a lot of Qs but more details will help us help you.

Just wanted to add Branjie that also if you still have the meds in there the fish may bottom sit. What kind of meds did you use. Some can be quite hard on the fish and some fish react very badly to any meds at all especially ones containing charcoids. I did the same when I first got fish, medicated and I didn't have needed to. You are not alone at all. We all panic. I'm hoping you can try doing a large water change and he will stop doing this. I have 2 orandas and it doesn't seem to be a special feature of orandas this sitting. They are slower swimmers than my other fish though. Very cute - a kind of wobble swim

Thanks for your help Trinket. The medication I added was a white spot medicine with formaldehyde and malachite green. Wally was doing this napping before that though. Still, last night after tea, he slept almost constantly from about 5pm until my bed time, and when I got up this am he was still doing it. What I mean by napping, is that he's on a diagonal, with his chin (if he had one) on the floor. At one point he was vertical with his tail straight up in the air, that was before I gave the medicine, and I was really freaking out then. The temp is constantly 22-23 degrees celcius which is what the LFS said to set it at, but originally it was 25 degrees (for the tropicals) and it took the tank 3 whole days to come down to 22 degrees. Come meal time, Wally is zooming about like you wouldn't believe. He's currently rummaging around the ravel for any bits he may have missed with great enthusiasm, but I know he'll be napping again once he's done, for probably most of the day. Interestingly, his white spots are almost completely gone today.

I've only done the one water change since I've had them (I only got them on Sunday). The floor of the tank was exceptionally clean as the tank was only set up approx a week before I got the Orandas, and the tank has 50kg of new gravel. When I set up the tank, I brought over a fully cycled filter, plus the rocks and plants from the previous tank, as well as all of the previous tank's water (100L, which filled approx half the new tank). All of my water stats were perfect the day before I got the Orandas. You'll be pleased to know that I'm finally getting my master test kit today. Yay! Could Wally have been napping so much because he was a wen growth spurt? The girl at the LFS said big fish sometimes rest like Wally does, but she didn't seem to remember Wally doing it in particular. I'm going to call the owner today and talk to her. Sorry for the long post. I hope I haven't put you to sleep.

What I mean by napping, is that he's on a diagonal, with his chin (if he had one) on the floor. At one point he was vertical with his tail straight up in the air, that was before I gave the medicine


Is he still 'napping' in a vertical like this? I don't have an oranda, but I would not imagine that it is normal for a fish to lay this way. My fantail does not have a wen, of course, neither does my moor, but I have never seen them sleep this way and never heard of a fish sleeping this way at all.

I spoke to the lady at the LFS and she said to do a water change and give some broad spectrum medicine. I bought my master test kit, and the stats before the water change were:

pH 7.2
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 8.0
Ammonia .50

I did a good 25% water change, but the ammonia still seems to be .50. Could the water stats be causing this behaviour? Should I give the medicine? I'm not 100% sure he's sick, as his colour is good, and his appetite is really good. He hasn't napped as much today, but it may be because I've been mucking around with the tank doing a water change and testing the water, instead of letting him rest.

What is his poop like? Color- thick/thin/stringy/trailing?
How is his breathing? Is he showing any other symptoms apart from the head standing? Do you have enough dissolved oxygen? Airstones/bubbles? Splash on the surface?Goldies and especially larger goldies like these need a huge amount of dissolved oxygen and medication seriously depletes it.

What is the name of the medicine you have there? Some will destroy your beneficial bacteria so it is wise to be sure you really need these meds before medicating.

If you have any ammonia you should do another partial change. I think you have to watch this cycle very,very closely -the amount of transferred bbs from a tropical tank are not really going to be sufficient for 2 large goldies. Please post back soon with news!

Hi Imogen,
I think you may be right about my filter not having enough beneficial bacteria for these fish. This may be like a mini cycle where I have to do more water changes and keep a close eye on things. I'm surprised that the ammonia level reading didn't really drop after the water change yesterday, but Wally seemed to notice the difference. Last night he didn't rest until almost 8pm, and I have to admit, I was tired then too . He's been too busy to nap this am. I'll do another water change today, and hold off on any meds.

As for aeration, I have enough flow from the filter to shoot a big Oranda across the tank. The bubbles are coming out with the flow from the filter, and the air intake outside of the tank is so noisy it's driving my hubby around the bend. I'm thinking we're probably o.k as far as filtration goes.

As for poop, they seem to be doing dark poos, short ones that float. They are getting one to two peas each per day, sinking pellets for breakfast, and frozen food for tea.

I really appreciate your help Imogen. I'm finding that I'm worrying about Wally a lot, and it's great to know I have got someone with a lot more experience that I can talk to. Here's a pic of Wally feeling better. The pic doesn't do him justice of course, he's much cuter in real life .

I've done another water change, and the ammonia is now down to the lowest on the scale (other than 0). I noticed that there was a lot of frozen food sitting at the surface of the water, and skimmed off what I could. I'm going to cut back on the frozen food. I think they have trouble finding it. Wally is back to napping. Could it be that he's just lazy? This is what he looks like when he's napping.

that is a cutie!

Btw, you say that the poo float? I think it could be that the food you are feeding him contain air in it, which is not suppose to be good if feed to goldfish, the air might cause problem for the fish. I can be wrong.

Well isn't he the cutest orange puppy! He is very lovely

I am curious if the LFS people ever saw him 'nap' like this. I mean there are occasional fish that have sort of distinctive odd deportment variations and favorite sleeping positions. If it is a new thing though I think it must indicate something is up. Perhaps it is something very simple though like a particular new food just not agreeing with him and perhaps some indigestion problems with that making him do this.

Chubbygold has a point that if he is eating from the surface he may be gulping in those bubbles you say that are ruffling the surface. That might well give him a gassy tummy and cause this.

Good that you have the air though, are feeding peas and are monitoring the water closely. It may just be a transitional feature- new tank, new diet combo. I'd just watch him closely. His fins and body look good and healthy. His wen is awesome !!

The LFS was feeding him the same food I believe. They were the ones who told me to make sure I used good quality sinking pellets. The girl in the shop didn't seem to remember Wally napping. He was swimming back and forth constantly each time I saw him at the shop (three times or so) before I bought him. Perhaps he was doing that from stress, and now he feels like he can relax.

I haven't seen Wally gulp at the bubbles. Peaches his tank mate does occasionally though. I think the ammonia problem may be my fault. I soaked the pellets for the first time tonight, and realised that they become double the size. I ended up giving them half as much pellets. As I mentioned before, I found old uneaten frozen food floating in the tank this am. I think they have trouble finding some of it, especially the food that stays floating, they don't think to look up there. I'll be more careful when feeding frozen food from now on.

I've read up on every fish disease I can find, and Wally doesn't have any symptoms other than needing to rest more often. I'll resist the urge to give him meds for now. I know it won't help the filter.

Thanks for your responses.

maybe you should soak your frozen food for a while, or make it less frozen...from the picture, your goldie look great, doesn't seem to have any diesease or atleast for me it doesn't. If the water is cycled properly and the water quality is good, then the only problem have to be the food.

A friend just told me that his Black Moor did the same thing. He worried about this fish, but a year on the fish has grown heaps, and it's still doing it. Must be a quirk some fish have maybe? I've definitely been overfeeding and polluting the tank. Now I've realised, I'm not going to be doing that anymore! I will try defrosting the frozen food and see if that helps. I'm going to keep soaking the pellets until I'm sure exactly how many I should be giving.

yeah I hope he will gets better soon, you know sometime oranda, or maybe fancy goldies in general swim less than the more common kind like common goldfish, comet, and shubunkins. Fancy goldfish as they get older they swim very little, atleast those of my friends have fancy goldfish, as they get chubbier, they seem ot be abit less active. I can be wrong though. I really dont know exactly for myself though, but it's good that you keep checking on him to see how he is.

Yes I think the resting may be because he's kind of big and cumbersome. Still, the angle he rests at, I'm wondering if he's got a little swimbladder issue??? I'll have a look at that thread on someone's research into swimbladder treatment.

how is he doing branjie? Is he getting any better?

Yes, you certainly need to soak the pellets well, prior to feeding and also to de-frost the frozen food in a little tank water. Speaking of which, is it frozen livefood? Trinket advised me to steer clear of FLF as it can sometimes contain parasites - head standing vertically can be an indication of intestinal worms. I'd keep a very close eye on the water and see how Wally does over the next few days.
Also, unless the lfs people really know about Gfish I would not look to them for good advise - very often they misdiagnose and recommend the wrong meds. It's very important not to experiment with meds in lieu of a proper diagnosis, as this can really mess up your fish.
Let's hope he perks up.

I agree with pixiefish about employee at LFS, most employee give out misleading information, i'm not syaing all but most are. I wouldn't trust them, it's best to ask the mod here.

Thanks for asking about Wally. I have a master test kit now, and I'm testing all of the parameters every day, and doing water changes accordingly. Yesterday I had to do a 40% water change because the ammonia went right up, but the readings are o.k today.

I've realised that I've been feeding the Orandas double what they needed, hence the high ammonia. Now I've given the tank a good clean out, hopefully things will be under control. Part of the problem was that I wasn't defrosting the frozen food, and a fair bit wasn't sinking, and wasn't getting eaten. I'm feeding the Orandas 7 soaked sinking pellets each for breakfast, half a square of frozen bloodworms defrosted in tank water in the afternoon to share, and two cooked and shelled peas each in the evening. Let me know if you think that sounds o.k.

Wally is a lot more active when the water parameters are good. In fact I haven't seen him rest at all today. When he does rest, it is in that position with his tail raised. I've thought it may be swim bladder/constipation related, so hopefully the soaking of food, and peas may help. If he has a structural issue on his insides, maybe that's just going to be the way he is. I'll research the worms theory though. I'll definitely be talking to people on this forum before giving any meds in the future. I think LFSs sometimes just tell you to give a broad spectrum medicine if they don't know what the problem is. Sometimes meds can do more harm that good I know.

Thanks again for asking about Wally!

That is great Branjie, Usually if the poo is floating then there is a problem with the food, because you need to soak it. Good to hear he is better now. I hope his swim bladder problem go away soon.

Yeah sometiem Med. can be harmful than helpful if you are using wrong med. or not necessary.

how is him?