hi,
i have a 75 g tank and in this tank i have a lionhead a black moor 10 feeders (very small..saved from fiancees piranah tank) 2 weather loaches and a pleco. many of the fish have white spots. we have been treating for ich, but today after checking them the black moor had bulging eyes more so then normal and they are black(the moor turned totaally orange) the gills are red in colour and he has a hard time breathing he needs to breath through the top. his fancy fin had white spots originally like the rest but now it seems to be 'shredding' off like u can see the lines but there is no fin between them no he has lost about 1/4 inch thus far. we have isolated him cause he was getting picked on and he is the biggest guy in there.

in a betta tank we have had problems with fin rot and it turned out to be a fungus so we arent entirely sure if it is ich anymore or what it is. we are treating him with primafix a fugal med.

please help ASAP we aalso need to know what to do about the rest?????

thank you

ph=7.6
nitrate=5
nitite=.1
ammonia=0

oh sorry u guys call it fraying fins and there is also blood streak through his fin and on his body
thanks

Hi everyone, I'm really sorry to be like flooding my own question page but i thought a few pictures of bob at his current state might help to diagnose his problem.

The link is http://www.geocities.com/id_girlz/BOB.html

Picture 1: demonstrates his 'fondness' of the top of the tank and his bloody rear fin

Picture 2: Shows close up of blood 'leakage' and you can clearly see the fish 'bone' that is where fin and skin used to occupy.

Picture 3: Good emphasis on the HUGELY pertruding eyes. I mean I know black moors have those telescope eyes to begin with but they are prolly 1 1/2 times their normal size.

Picture 4: Above tank view. You can clearly see the pattern of blood filled areas over the top of his body.

Can anyone diagnose this? We guessed maybe gill disease or fin rot already but what can i buy to treat him with?

I live in canada and what I have around the house so far is melafix, pimafix, quICK cure, maracide and I think that's it....

Please help... I dont want tonight to be his last since he is my first fish EVER. If I lose him I will be devastated and like go into depression or something..... PLEASE, I am begging you.

From the looks of it and your water parameters, you most likely had an ammonia spike that caused your fish to be susceptable to disease. The ammonia spike has gone, creating the nitrite spike, which will still cause problems for the fish.

I would recommend a 30% water change in your tank right off the bat. Then to reduce stress from the nitrites, add one tablespoon of aquarium salt (no iodized salt!) for every 5 gallons of water. I am sure other members will say this, but for the health and growth of your fish 10 gallons per goldie is recommended. However, lets just deal with the problem at hand. The water change and salt treatment should reduce the stress on your fish and you may see them be a little better with the gills/breathing problems.

From your pictures, it looks as if you have fin rot and inflammation. I personally have had success with maracyn and maracyn II in treating fin rot. Another product that is not as strong IMO is Kanacyn, its is for milder problems. Whatever you do treat them with, make sure you treat both gram positive and gram negative bacteria. It is the luck of the draw which type of bacteria is causing the fin rot, so its best to treat both. Now another thing, is if you are putting meds in the tank, your filter may have charcoal in it. Most filters have floss (looks like pillow batting) and charcoal. Yours may have it as well. It is recommended that you remove the charcoal as it absorbs any meds you put in the water. DO NOT remove the floss, because a lot of 'good' bacteria that remove ammonia and nitrite from the water reside in it, and right now you want all you can get so no more ammonia spikes and you can get the water parameters stabilized.

The maracyn and maracyn II should clear up the problems, and then when they are stopped (no more fraying of the fins and whitish edge to fins is gone) you can add Melafix which will help regrow the fins to their original condition.

Goodluck!

Thanks for the quick reply Obsidian, but I am wondering if the visible blood under his skin will disspear with the treatment of maracyn I and II? I isolated bob, he's in his own 20 gallon now which you can see in the pictures, but I will do the water change for the 75gallon after work and treat with the salt AND do the maracyn! lol Any other suggestions? Bob is still alive, I just checked on him and he's in new water altogether so as soon as I changed the water he got better, not floating on his side anymore or bumping into the walls of the tank.

Does this also mean that I can discontinue the use of the pimafix or should I still use it ALONG with the maracyn????

Please advise, thank you.

In response to your questions, I didn't realize you had multiple tanks at hand. If you can (and you get this message in time) treat the 75 gallon with the water change and salt. That will immediately relieve some of the stress on the fishies in there. Do the same with the 20 gallon you have Bob in. Then treat the 20 gallon with Bob with the maracyn, but not the 75 gallon. Remove any fish showing similar symptoms and isolate them with Bob from the main tank. The reason I say this is that the anti -bacterial meds will destroy the cycle of your tank, causing your water parameters to go nuts again within a week. If you can treat in isolation from the main tank, then please do it, so that won't happen.

As for the blood under the fins, yes it will go away with treatment. Think of an analogy to humans. You get a cut or a bruise and blood fills the area, causing swelling and inflammation. But once the cut heals, the blood will also be removed. The ammonia and high nitrite act as irritants, causing the inflammation.

I have never used pimafix before... looking on the web it says it · Treats fungal infections and Treats both internal and external bacterial infections. I don't know if it treats both gram positive and gram negative bacteria, and what its relative strength is. Perhaps other board members will know? As for using in combination with maracyn, mixing of meds is generally not recommended. Its the same for humans, you don't know if they will interact and form something toxic, or completely cancel each other out. So it is recommended to use one med at a time.

Once again, remember the charcoal, or else adding meds will be pointless.


Goodluck!

Hi Obsidian.

Ok, first I got rid of the charcoal last night, it says that on the instructions of quick fix and everything else I've used so I've gotten that much under wraps.

Now, ALL of the other goldfish in the 75 gallon are infected too. The two largest feeders also have bloody finnage and little white spots which is why I originally believed it to be ich. The two largest are slow moving and sit at the bottom MOST of the time, BUT eat like "pigs" so they are still ok.

Now I am at work now, but am going to pick up maracyn on the way home. Now did you say that I need two different kinds... ? Like Maracyn I AND II or is it just one bottle that treats for those two infections??? Bob is alone and I have seperated a lionhead g/f, 2 dojo loaches and a common pleco into something about the size of 10 gallon(they have all been with me the longest) thus if the feeders left in the 75 gallon die I will not be AS sad as if i lost BOB especially, but also goldy(the lionhead), the 2 loaches and the pleco.

So I don't know, I will absolutely HAVE to treat the 75 gallon but now could you please let me know if I do the 30% water change for all 3 tanks, then add the aquarium salt which i have at home and then right after throw in the maracyn??? or what would you suggest?

Also, bob does not have a filter or heater with the 20 gallon he's in now... it's just a hospital tank, but he's used to 78 degree temps and room temp is like what 68 degrees? I hope he'll be ok from that, but the colder temp seemed to bring his swelling down just a little bit from last night to this morning... please advise... i work until 8 and then am going STRAIGHT to the LFS so if you could possibly reply by 8 pm i will be eternally greatful!!! seriously!!

Thank you so much for your help thus far btw. I don't think you are appreciated enough for all your help. So thanks!

K it's 7 30 and i'm kinda freaking out cuz i don't know what to buy or even what he has....

I think the maracyn is a good/bad idea b/c you said yourself i can't treat more than one thing at a time and the mix of the two might neutralize the water and not help at ALL

I did some research online and I found a med named SPECTROGRAM which treats hemorrhaging, inflammed gills and treats BOTH gram positive and gram negative in one shot. Also, it appears that the description of the disease SEPTICEMIA best matches with bob and his current condition. Do you think my 'assumption' may be right or no?

I only hope that I can get my hands on spectrogram at my fish store here..... Otherwise I will get both maracyn I AND II but please msg me when you get this again anyway and inform which one I should use first?????

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, rosejk, sorry that I didn't reply when you needed it, I apologize, but I was out of my apartment for the day. I hope things are going ok with you at the moment. I am assuming that you have begun at least some treatment, so whatever I say you may have to modify to fit what you have already done. I am going to try to cover both of your last two messages.

Good job with the removal of charcoal. Sorry to hear that everyone in the 75 gallon is infected. With the feeders... they may have ich if they have what looks like little grains of salt all over their body. Ich always seems to accompany sickness with fish. The salt you added to the 75 gallon should help keep that down at the moment. Ich is a parasitic infection, and you would need a anti parasite med like 'rid ich' or 'quick cure' if the salt doesn't help. As I said, its generally not recommended to mix meds, but I have done it on occasion when my fish were really bad (I had the exact same thing happen to me last May when I upgraded and knew nothing of goldies). Also turning off the tank light will help because ich needs light to do its thing, so lack of light will keep the ich down and de-stress your fishies. Plus you can put a towel around the tank to keep the light low. If the ich gets bad... I mean if it is not going away, by all means add the med. As I said its generally not recommended, but ya gotta do what you gotta do.

The sitting at the bottom is indicative of sickness/stress.

The two meds (seperate bottles), Maracyn I and II are formulated to work together, thus you can put them both in at the same time, no interaction effects. As for the isolation of fishies in the tank. Its up to you as to how you want to group them. I would group similarly sick fish. For instance, seperate those who have ich and fin rot and those who have only fin rot.

As of right now, if every tank you have set up has some form of sickness. I would do a 30% water change on all of them. Salt them. Then daily do 20-30% water changes (adding the salt in appropriate dosage). You would be amazed at just how water changes can help a fish. For those that have the fin rot, throw in the maracyns (or the spectrogram, whatever the med you purchased). This is the other reason why you should group similarly sick fish, because then you are treating less tanks, thus less water, and less 'wasting' of expensive meds.

As for Bob. Its ok that he does not have a filter or heater, I would recommend getting him an air pump or just putting in the air pump from the 75 gallon for a few minutes every few hours or so (rinse it in hot water beforehand so no transmission of ich to his tank), so you know there is sufficient oxygen in the tank. Also since there is no filter, you should DEFINITELY do water changes every day and monitor ammonia and nitrites because they can build up quickly in that situation.


(2nd message responses)
As I said above, Spectrogram is fine from your description, as long as it treats both gram positive and negative bacteria. I am vague on septicemia... because often inflammation is mistaken for that. Septicemia is more of a deep red patch on the body itself and is indicative of a much more serious bacterial infection. (Members please correct me if I am wrong!)

As I said above, you can use both maracyns together because they are made by the same company to work simultaneously.

All in all... it will be ok. The salt should help their breathing. Fin rot is NOT a life threatening problem at this stage. Your water parameters are improving, so your fish are getting better. The ich is common and definitely treatable. I have had at least three similar situations as you, the most recent being a chocolate oranda I purchased that was pretty beat up (frayed fins, ammonia burns, fish lice). He was put in an isolation tank with no filter and some meds for the fins and lice. I left for three days for a conference, I come back and this fish has ammonia problems up the wazoo.... fin rot, ich, inflammation, sitting on the bottom. Water changes and meds set him right as rain in a few days and he is happily putzing around in my tank 6 mos later. Goldfish are weird.... tropical fish just die on you, goldfish get sick and let you have the chance at saving them. Most of the time if you can diagnose and treat in time, you have a good shot.... just like you have done.

Goodluck with everything. I will still be here if you have more questions/concerns.

Ahh, Obsidian, you are my fish-guru-hero guy!!!!!(i think guy, i don't know many woman who would give themselves such a name, sorry if I am wrong tho!)

Anyways, I ended up buying Nitrofura-G, I believe that's the correct name after I found out they didn't have spectrogram. Now it had all the sort of descriptions of things that bob had. I didn't know whether to buy maracyn or not b/c I was unsure of it I could mix them and the guy at the LFS hadn't the slightest idea either. And the price was quite absurd. Maracyn I was 7 dollars(good enough) and Maracyn II had a price tag of 27 dollars CAD. I almost fell over! They had lots of treatments to choose from tho and I sprung for 2 packs of the Nitrofura-G which has 10 capsules that treat 10 gallons each, so I emptied about 10-15 gallons of the water in the 75 gallon so that I didn't have to buy a 3rd pack.

It's funny how you pay $3 for a g/f, that's how much I payed for BOB, and have spent quite a few more dollars than that with giving him meds. lol. He's worth it tho, part of the family for a year in february.

Anyways, the news is, I started treating last night, there's 14 fish in the 75 gallon and they all have the red streaks in their tails, except for the pleco and the 2 loaches, but they are black and grey so I can't really tell, but they seem to act the normalest of all the fish. Anyways, the Nitro-G makes the water PURE BLUE! I can barely see through either tank.

And as for bob, I felt bad that he was cold and without air so I threw in a heater and it's at about 74-75 degrees(he's used to about 78-80 tho in the 75 gallon) and I got a brand new airstone just in case the other ones around the house were infected or contaminated and he seemed pleased this morning.

He was sitting underneath the airstone, well floating in the water, not touching the bottom of the tank, but not tirelesly(sp?) either and was gulping bubbles and seemed to like the idea of the air! lol. I'm at work so I haven't seen him since 7 am this morning before school but my mom called and said he's more active swimming around and no longer at the top. Which makes every penny worth it just to hear that my 'first' is getting better. I have 3 more days of treatment starting 2morrow as you treat 3 times, but every other day. Which makes me wonder if the meds are just THAT strong or if their weak enough to give the fish a day's worth of break but still work during that time? I don't know.

I'm wondering if I've left anything else out???? Ummm... thanks for the information about the lights, I had no idea that ich thrives on having aquarium lights. I will take note of that, I will also hope that the ich on most, if not all of the g/f in the 75 gallon will keep under wraps until sunday when the treatment with the Nitro-G is finished??? If I see them getting worse, I will use the quick cure, which I have a brand new bottle of sitting in the basement floor, so atleast I'm set for that problem.

I must say it's soooooooo true about how g/f wait to be healed and give you time to identify their problem. I had a betta fish AND a butterfly pleco die on me recentely. The betta fish gave signs... tail was burnt by the heater and then the rest fell off, so someone told me MELAFIX it, but it ended up dying of an internal bacteria. I had no clue. And the butterfly pleco.. guy cost a small fortune... 12 bucks for a baby one and he died with no warning after not even 2 full weeks with me. Came home one day and he was upside down on the gravel. No signs of illness either... just died!!!!!

Well I think that's it for now, I hope I didn't forget to say anything. I will do a bit of a water change tonight, although I thought that you don't change water during treatment but 30% the day after the final treatment day??? That's what it says on the box... please advise if you think I should change the water tho? I guess that's it.

Thanks again for all your help.

Hi again. I'm home from work now and have something to share of concern.

Although bob seems to be doing better, I am not as optimistic about the 75gallon. 2 of the goldfish are acting EXTREMELY weird. They sit at the bottom all the time, but when I went to feed them and when they went to swim around on occassion, they would dash across really quickly from one side to the other of the tank and do WEIRD sort of spins and somersaults like they were being dragged on a string.

THe only thing that concerns me about this is that my betta fish that recently died of the internal bacteria was acting the same frantic way approx. 1-2 days before her death. I am wondering if this is a REALLY bad bad sign? Or if some are having trouble adjusting to the medicine as opposed to the others? I added more salt and turned off the light in hopes of calming them down, but I will see if they are all still alive 2morrow morning. I am having trouble believing that they are ALL going to pull through. Some of their conditions are way more advanced than others...

And another observation... the red streaks in the tails seem to be getting BRIGHTER and larger, almost like their spreading. Now, I was thinking that maybe the blue colour of the treatment is making the original illness just stick out a bit more, but I do notice on bob that the blood streaks are MORE prominent than before? Is that a really bad sign?

When I treated for ich before, it cleared up in 1-2 days, but this is taking a bit longer(which I was expecting naturally) but things seem to be getting gradually worse in the 75gallon and better in the 20gallon with bob, except for that blood streak prominence? Any ideas on the cause, or maybe I'm treating for something other than I should be?

Sorry I seem so paranoyed, I am just REALLY concerned.

Rosejk,
Ok, this is going to be another 'in response to your previous two messages' post. I will try to cover everything.


I am actually a girl ... I go by obsidian or obsidiana on a bunch of sites, its just an uncommon name that usually no one has used that I can get away with... but you're right, it does sound like a guy.


I wasn't able to find to much about Nitrofura-G on the web, but I did find the following: Nitrofura-G- This is good for hemorrhaging and red streaks, fin and tail deterioration, open sores, as well as general bacterial infections and gill diseases.
The maracyn was wickedly over priced! I can usually get it for less than $10 US.
From the description, it seems as if its ok, I would look for improvement in your fishies condition with the meds. A good way to 'track' progress would be to take pictures if you have a digital camera. Its hard to see if they have gotten better day to day, especially if you are checking on them frequently.... gradual changes just don't show up.


I would defintely keep an eye on your water parameters, since with less water there will be more problems keeping them under control. If there are spikes, do a water change and just put back in the appropriate amount back in of meds.

As for the med $, oh yes, it is shocking how much a little fish can drain your pocketbook when its sick *sigh*


The loaches and pleco will probably not show too many symptoms, I have never had them affected even when I had fish die from an ammonia spike.

For bob, the heater is fine... actually goldfish are a 'coldwater' fish, and they can handle low temps, even slightly above freezing. And good about the airstone. Good to hear bob is much better. The meds treating for 3 times every other day is common. My Kanacyn is the same way, I *think* that it gives the fish a chance to get acclimated to a certain dosage of medication before adding a higher dose. I think its just less stressful on the fish.

As for the 75gallon... Definitely keep them out of light. I just want to make sure its definitely ich... there are other things that look white on a fishies body. Ich looks like salt sprinkled on your fish, and thats what you have... right??? You said there were two fish with ich... if you see a third fish come down with it, definitely use the quick cure, regardless if there is Nitrofura-G in there. If you are worried about med mixing.... remove the ones with ich and put them in isolation in a tank and treat with quick cure. The ich is more troublesome then the fin rot, so I would definitely keep a close eye on it.

If your med says specifically not to do a water change, then don't... but keep an eye on water parameters (ammonia and nitrite) and if they rise AT ALL... do a water change and just replace the meds you took out.... i.e. if you took at 10 gallons of water, at meds for 10 gallons when you replace. You MUST keep the water parameters good especially since you are overstocked (1 fish per 10 gallon rule) and another spike could prove fatal to your weakened fish.


(2nd message)


This is called *flashin* and *scratching* basically your fish are irritated by ich (I am assuming they have it). Think of it like fleas on a dog... dogs can scratch, but fish can't. So they so all sorts of things to relieve the irritation. Some will scrape against gravel/plants, so will swim erratically, and others will sit in the filter outflow letting the running water sooth them.



I know that the blue color makes it difficult to see the progress of the fish in the tank. I don't know if the red streaks are really getting larger or its just the color contrast that is giving that illusion. I just don't know... could you post pictures? The red should start to decrease soon. But the red streaks will take a few days to heal... don't expect that at the end of the treatment they will be all gone. As with any injury there is some healing. What you are looking for, in terms of a healed fish, is the loss of the whitish edge around the fins (as well as no more fraying/fin loss ) THATS what you are looking for. Once that goes away your fish will be on the road to recovery for fin rot.


I would check to make sure it is ich (salt grains). But if there are no more apparent external symptoms, and you have the tanks medicated, then there is nothing else to do but wait. A fishies natural reaction to stress (and the light being off) will be to sleep or rest on the bottom. The flashing is because of the parasite. and the fin rot is being treated, but it will take a few days to kick in fully. Bob is *probably* better because he is alone and not feeling the effects of ich and is an older, stronger fish in general.

I good way to peer in the the blue haze caused by the medicine is to grab a flashlight. DOn't shine it in their eyes cause it will freak them out, but you can spot ich and the fins with the light. Plus it will eliminate color contrasts from the blue so you can see the *real* status of your fishies fins.

Goodluck, hopefully everyone makes it through the night.

Good afternoon!

Firstly, my apologizes in assumption about gender. lol

Secondly, all the fish made it through last night. This morning I did a water change in both bob's tank and in the 75gallon, but I didn't really realize that I would have to add back all the meds lost with the water change so I will do that in about an hour. The 75gallon tank seemed happy with the water change and about 2 fish were still sitting at the bottom.

I had no idea that the jerking sort of motion was the "flashing and scratching." They weren't really rubbing on anything tho, as to scratch, just jerking which I guess would be the flashing part!

Ummm... I took a few new pictures but I do not know how to post them directly to the msg so I guess I will create another webpage off my own and post it in a second message. I took a couple pictures of the worst 2 in the 75 and bob and his progress... or lack there of?!?

I guess that's it for now, after my shower I will medicate with the Nitro-G again and prolly ich since they all have about 1 spot... but some are MUCH worse off than the others. It's weird tho... b/c the 2 largest feeders are the ones carrying the ich and they have been with me 3rd and 4th longest, over 7 months for sure.

Anyways, I will keep you posted and will add the pics very shortly.. also if there is a way I can add pictures directly here and anyone knows how, I would appreciate being let in on the secret very greatly. lol.

Thank you.

Ok, Please tell me if this works... it might not and then I'll have to do something else with the pictures...

Here it goes.... http://community.webshots.com/user/rose_jk

Click on the 10th album entitled "SICK FISH - Jan 9th, 04"

I wrote a little sub-story if you click on each pic and a description of what you see I guess.....

Thanks.

Wow, that did turn your fishies water blue! Ok, thanks for posting the pictures... actually since we had a person post porno on our board, there is a 100 post rule for pictures. So linking to a webpage is basically the fasted way to get pictures up.

From the pictures, I can't see the ich, that doesn't mean you don't have it, its just that it didn't get picked up. Neglecting the ich, The fish in the feeder tank don't actually look bad, trust me, I have seen worse. I did see the the red and the split tail fins in the feeders. I think its ok, as I said, the white fringe (or leading edge of the fin rot) is the most concern. The redness is ok to have.

Bob is looking better but there is only one really nice shot of his tail, but there seems to be less white and even less streaking than your first pictures? It could be if you used a different camera, but it does appear better. I am concerned though.... does Bob consistently sit vertical at the bottom like the two pictures you took? Its ok to be wertical at the top and sucking air, but is he not able to go horizontal at the bottom? I am just concerned with that, because it means hes having troubles. It could be symptoms of internal bacteria infection (which the meds will help) or it could be (from the web) "Perhaps it is hypoxia. This implies that there is insufficient oxygen content in the water, which in this case, I think that the medication is probably absorbing the oxygen. Some chemicals like methylene blue absorbs oxygen from the water while some such as hydrogen peroxide gives out oxygen to the water. If this is the case, more of your goldfish will have this problem and the sign is that they hang at the surface of the water gasping for air. Just aerate the water more vigorously."
Check the chemicals in your meds, perhaps there is oxygen deficiency.

But keep me updated!
Goodluck!

Hi! Thanks for looking over the pictures. I did use the same camera, it just depends on whether the fish are swimming or just floating on by that I can either good a really good shot or a semi-craptastic one. lol

Bob sits like that occasionally, but today after the second dosage of the Nitro-G I just fed both tanks and bob was swimming around munching on the food and didn't even go to the bottom once. Good sign. As for the picture of sitting vertical like that, I am not sure why he does it now, he's sick, that's prolly why, but he has never done it before. He does not have a problem in falling horizontally and swimming around, although him sitting like that concerned me also. But it seems to be less prominent, that was before the water change and treatment and after he looks much better. He has his good old airstone, so I dunno if I can do anything else? Any suggestions?

I do believe that the redness is going down in him(bob) because he is alone is my reasoning.

As for the 75gallon, I am thinking it's not ich anymore, if I could get you a really good shot of the sickest feeder I would, but it's hard to get him to slow down and I don't want to take him out cuz he's a jumper as I have learnt in the past.

Now, is this a really bad sign? A couple of the smallest feeders that were a bright orange are turning white in sections.... like the size of a dime around, but white. And even goldy the lionhead is turning kind of a shiny white, it looks cool, but I'm worried that it's a bad thing. It's not like a growth or anything, just a color change. And a couple of them appearing to be losing a scale here and there, I'm thinking this is from their scratching perhaps? I really don't know whether I should treat for ich b/c if they don't have it in the end, it will just make them more zonked up on meds. Do you think I should? If you do, I will !!! But if you think it may be something else, please let me know. None were sitting on the bottom at all though at feeding time which was good news to me and all were swimming. So cheers to that, but I don't know what I should do about treating for the "ich" if their even is any or what I should/could do....?

Thanks.

Bob seems to be fine, just give him a few days with the meds to recover.


As for whether it is or is not ich.... check out this website...Glimmering Goldfish
They have listings of symtoms coupled with abnormal appearaces of the fish. Check to see if anything matched. As for the color change. Fish often turn colors, the only really concern is if they are lethargic and really gray (excess slime coat), which I DO NOT think you have in the least. My panda has turned into a calico in the past week, so don't worry to much about that

Goodluck!

Just a quick update: Bob is doing WAY better today than even yesterday. He's not even doing that vertical floating stunt anymore.

As for the 75gallon, no more sitting on the bottom OR gasping for air, but the feeder I am most concerned with is still quite frantic and has lost yet another piece of 'anal' fin. I think that's the right one! lol. He has like a scissortail if that helps any.

Now, I am almost positive that he does not have ich, but there is white in that scissortail like fin, so I am not going to assume that it is a part of the white that comes with the fin-rot? Could that be the case? It's not torn though like with the white on bob's tail. The tail is in tact, it just has patches of white and on that "glitter fish" list thingy, I didn't find anything that is remotely like it. I don't know what it is. But monday maybe after 2morrow's final dose of meds I will seperate that paricular feeder.

He is also having a darkening effect of certain scales? Not all of them, but some here and there... and prolly on about 30% of his body. Is that some other disease also maybe or no? The rest of them that had blood streaks, the streaks are fading. So bravo to that! But he's the only one that seems to be getting worse instead of better.

Thanks.

Well, good news with everyone!

With the still sick feeder... is the white on the anal fin look anything like a cotton ball, or is the white actually part of the fin, like a color change. If its cotton, then you have fungus, if its a color change it may be due to stress or the fin rot, its hard to tell.



Good to hear about the red streaks going down. The dark spots as most likely 'healing' patches from ammonia burns. Whenever there is a spike in the ammonia fish often develop a dark patch (which will go away) as they heal.

I would seperate the one that is still sick, but otherwise when everyone gets back to being healthy again, put them all together. There are a few things to remember when you put them back together in the 75 gallon. First, do a water change to remove some of the meds. Put back the carbon (which will take out the rest of the meds in a day or two) and you will have to cycle your tank once again (see 'cycle of the tank' in the menu to the left. The antibacterial meds killed the cycle of your tank, so it needs to restock the 'good' ammonia and the 'good' nitrite eating bacteria. Thus your water parameters will be in flux for a while. A daily water change of 20-30% is recommended while the tank restocks the good bacteria to keep the ammonia your fish are producing down. I would also suggest getting another filter (a canister or hang on the back, if you have room) Extra filtration will provide more waste removal (since goldies are so messy) and places for the good bacteria to reside. Plus if you change your filter cartridge, the loss of the good bacteria won't be as bad if you have multiple filters, since one filter will have a good 'colony' of bacteria to restock the new filter cartridge. Just some things to consider.... but keep an eye on those water parameters, at least once daily until your tank is cycled and once a week after that.

Oh, and you can add melafix to the tank (some of it will be taken out by the carbon, but it will still be ok) to help regrowth and healing of your fish.

Goodluck!

Hi again!

The white in the sick feeders' tail does not look like cotton, but like it's part of the tail. It doesn't look like it should be there. Like with the red streaking it was easier to tell that it was just a coloring sort of thing, but this is a bit harder to distinguish, but I would say that it's part of the tail.

As for seperating him, I will do this... but should I be treating for anything while he is seperate or just monitoring and watching/hoping that he gets better?

As for everyone else, I don't have any further questions since they seem a-okay, but until this feeder goes back to being itself, i think i will be flooding this board. lol.

Thanks for your help... I will keep posting play by play progress.

I would give your still sick feeder another round of Nitrofura alone in a hospital tank. He may have a more advanced state of infection that the first round didn't eliminate. If his tail clears up, and there are no more symptoms other than being a little nuts with erratically swimming.... well he may just be one stressed out baby and may need to be given a few days to calm down.

Goodluck!

FYI...goldfish should be always kept in temps between 50 and 70. If subject to higher temps for prolonged periods of time (numerous months), it will adversely affect the fish. That said, their immune system doesn't kick into high gear until mid to upper 70's and is at its peak around 80-82. Maracyn-Two works best at those temps. As for purchasing it, go online to petsmart...they ship to Canada:

http://www.petsmart.com/fish/shopping/medi...uct%5F711.shtml

Koikween,
Goldfish are fine in the 70-78 temp range. It has been discussed in http://kokosgoldfish.com/forum/index.php?s...?showtopic=6429
Yes, goldfish can accept a wide range of temperatures, and those in a pond can achieve temps from 50-70, but there is no way that a tank in the summer can get and stay below 70 degrees when ambient temperature is much higher. You would have to add ice cubes in order to lower the temperature during the summer, and this would create fluctuations in the tank temperature. It is much better for goldies to have a stable low to mid 70 temp than a fluctuating temperature below 70 degrees.


Cheers!

Not to be contrary, but here is a complete summary by species:

http://www.petlibrary.com/goldfish/variety.htm

Mid-high 70's temps boost goldfish's immune and digestive systems without any negative effects. Everyone has their preferences, and luckily goldfish are quite hardy so most will do just fine at any moderate temp. If you would like to discuss/debate temperatures for goldfish, please start another thread. It gets confusing when people start discussing multiple topics in one thread.

Man that was a lot of reading! Obsidian did a good job helping you out, and I'm glad to hear Bob is getting better. I understand how there are some fish you just don't want to lose, so I am extra happy for you that Bob is pulling through. You might consider keeping Bob alone in the 20 gallon permanately. With so many fish and so many of them being feeders, there is a good chance parasites are present, so keeping Bob isolated from the other fish will ensure that if he isn't already affected with any disease the other fish may have, he won't be.

Thanks obsidian, happy goldfish, koikween!

I have had them at about 80 degrees ever since I got a heater back almost a year ago and they don't seem to complain. But as we all know, your supposed to isolate a new entrant to the tank before adding him to the "official" tank, but that's hard sometimes. With something like 5 new fish at a time, I didn't have anything nearly large enough to house 5 new goldfish.

As for the sicknesses... they are pretty well under wraps... but the sick feeder is having COMPLETE scale discoloration. He is a frisky one, so I am having trouble getting him into my hand and examining him, but his scales are now darker all the way up his body. Only his head is a normal orange. He's not erratic anymore, just a kooky color? Any suggestions?

I also don't know where to put him? All I have at my disposal is a 20gallon and a 75gallon, so what can I do? Any suggestions on something I can isolate him in?

Sorry btw for the time it took to reply, with school and work I had zippo time to come online.

Oh, and p.s.! Bob is deff. staying in the 20 gallon, although it's pretty lonely in their atm, but he doesn't seem to have any problems at all!!!
Thanks again, and I will continue to keep you posted on #2's health!

If you would like to isolate your feeder, run over to nnnnnn and pick up a 10gal tank for ~10 or a rubbermaid bucket for ~$5. They will both do in terms of a temp tank.

As for the fish, all I can say is if he is turning brown, he may be healing from ammonia burn, they take a couple of days to show up and a couple of weeks to disappear.


Goodluck!

Take a look at this.

Hi Obsidian. I can't tell if #2 is a brownish color, it looks like blue scales still because of the left over meds, but he acts okay, so I am going to cross my fingers and hope that he's ok. I will keep you posted.

I guess I will go out and buy another tank, but I just got rid of a couple because they create clutter if you don't use them.

And sorry SomethingFishy, you can keep your g/f in those temps, but mine have not had a problem living in 78-80 degree temps for all of their lives.

And as a bit of observant behavior, they don't really like the cold... if it's cold, they don't swim around and just lethargically sit at the bottom of the tank. That's with my experience anyway, so sorry but the temp. stays.



Sorry, once last question.. you mention that it may be ammonia burn, but how is that so, i thought my nitrate was high in the beginning... or nitrite, i cant remember now. lol. Could you clarify this for me?

Thank you!

If you look at my reply more carefully and check the link then you'd see i was agreeing with you. I keep my Fancy GF tank at around 78F also.

K somethingfishy I wasn't starting anything or complaining, and I didn't check the link cuz I was at work!!! So I shouldn't have been on the comp anyway. <_< Sorry for misinterpreting in any case.

As for my fishies, they all seem to be doing even better today. I have friday's off of school so I will do like a 70% water change and cleaning 2morrow. Everything is just soaked in "blue," pure colorful.

In other news.... my newt, newt-ski, died yesterday. I've only had him for 17 days and he died of starvation. I tried newt & salamander pellets as well as brine shrimp and blood worms and he didn't fancy either. Plus he starting shedding skin and had a gash on his head and tail... from where I don't know? No heat.... nothing sharp??? Oh well.

And my dog is sick... he's 11 years old and has a hernia. This is a VERY sad week for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But all I can say is I'm happy for what's around me at the present, cuz whether they will be around 2morrow or the day after is not up to me. But I am thankful for every day and happy occassion they give me anyway.

Thanks.

Ok well, I see this discussion is over since no one replied to the last one.

They are all ok tho... if you ppl even care anymore !?!?

I don't think there can be any doubt that the people here care about your fish, considering how many replies you got to your post and how hard they worked with you to help them!

Glad to hear your fish are doing better, but sorry to hear about your poor newt and dog. Can the vet sort out the hernia?