I was just looking at the goldfish auction and saw a Black Demekin. it looks basically exactly like my black moor, just bigger.....

Hoohoho. I am awaiting for this answer too

Well, I will give my lecture on Moors and Demekins as they have been explained to me.....

An "English Black Moor" is an old fashioned fish that used to be very common in the ponds of England. These were intensely black, telescope eyed fish with a longish body - not too deep - and solid fins. The eyes were protruding, but nothing extreme. These fish were extremely hardy and strong - GREAT pond fish.

The Demekin is the time honored telescope fish - typically red or red/white. They were shorter bodied and often sported larger eyes.

The black was a greatly desired color, and NO fish so embodied that velvet deep black as well as the English Black Morr, so the English Moor was crossed into the Demekin. The resulting fish is pretty much what you now see called a "Demekin" or "Moor" depending on color.

The Telescope fish commonly seen now-a-days is a shorter, deeper, stocky fish, often with a butterfly tail (but it can be long tailed, butterfly or standard). MAny just call them "Telescope" fish - for they no longer can easily be divided into separate categories - the fish have merged and melded into a different type than used to be seen. IF they are black, they can be "Black Moors" or "Moors". If they are red or red/white, they are "Demekins".

I think in this case, the TungHoi Company lists the fish as "Demekin" for in China, there is no such thing as a "Moor". They are Demekins or Black Demekins. These fish come from China - so they are Demekins.

You can call them Moors or Black Moors if you wish..... it makes little difference.

well that clears it up....thank you

Daryl,
Is there anything that you DON'T know? LOL! That was a great explanantion!

There is SOOOOOO much I do not know. But I have a voracious appetite for information - and love picking people's brains for every speck of info I can find. I have read everything I can get my hands on. I used to have what is commonly called a "photographic memory" - but it is fleeting as I age - (as is just about everything else!)

So much of what I know comes from Koko's - from reading all the things that people say and ask. There is a WEALTH of information here - from every corner of the world and every opinion and method you could imagine (and many you cannot!)

when i bought my "black moor" i found out that he was really a demekin

wow daryl that is great info

The literal english translation for "Demekin" is Telescope-eye, as Trinket has said in another thread that deme means protruding eye and kin (kingyo) is goldfish.

So logically Demekin is really any protruding-eyed goldfish. However, as far as I know & as daryl said, nowadays people associate Demekin with deeper-bodied, telescope-eyed fish which is basically ryukin with protruding eyes.

That's what my black moor looks like....he has a deeper body and a fat belly. The ones that I see in stores now called moors have a much longer body with a smaller belly.

I personally like the fat bellies better

So, are the moors popping up in petstores now more like these "English Black Moors"?

There are some really good examples of what the new moor body type on this post: http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=63334

i love learning new stuff about goldfish. daryl, your vast knowledge on this subject never fails to impress me