Have you noticed this too, or am I the only one?

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=62379

That might explain why my moor Boggles hasn't lost any black yet.

I guess I really do not understand.... what does a bare bottomed tank have to do with ammonia burns? A bare bottomed tank is usually far cleaner, far less problematic than a gravel based tank! Build your cycle in your filter media and you will have no problems with ammonia....

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im sorry i have to agree.. i was wondering about that to hmmmm... still wondering.. i have a barebottom tank its wonderful i'll never go back to gravel ever.

Nothing.

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...st&p=690917

hmmm... nice... i think that barebottom is not as good as gravelbottom, because gravel replicates a goldfishes natural habitat, and it helps benificial bacteria thrive, and thats pretty important since the bottom part of the tank is the least filtered.

as long as you have a good strong cycle a bare bottom can yeild the same results as gravel... yes gravel is more natural.. but.. bacteria will grow anywhere in the tank not only in the gravel .. when i first went barebottom.. i checked my parms the nest week or so and my cycle never bumped and the conditon of the water was better than when the gravel was there. So, being said everyones preference is differant. My reason for going barebottom is because my oranda almost choked to death on a peice of gravel... now, if that tank was new and the bacteria was just getting started i wouldve not went barebottom. I love my tank like this and my fish not only look happy but they are healthier too Click to view attachment

No matter how well you may clean it, there is always waste left in gravel.

Parasites that have a stage in life when they encyst can lie in wait in gravel (ich as case in point). I have NEVER had ich.....

Fish can get gravel stuck in their mouths.

The cycle built in a filter that has a constant supply of ammonia laden water and plenty of oxygen is a much better, stronger one than that which is in the gravel. Only the very top surface of gravel is capable of carrying much beneficial bacteria - the gravel that is underneath does not get adequate oxygen to support a colony. Every time you vacumn your gravel, you turn over the "good" stuff, bringing the "empty" stuff to the surface - in effect reducing your filtering capabilites at each cleaning.

A properly filtered tank should have adequate "lift" from the bottom by air features, the fish's movements and currents, making sure that there are no "stagnant" areas where waste can collect. Gravel creates these stagnant pockets - where filtration IS the least.....

I agree with Daryl. Read that gravel without air running through it will have "dead spots". You need air running through a surface for bacteria to thrive. surface area with no air results in something else thats just not good.

I have a bare bottom tank too. Will never go to gravel again, unless I start using an undergravel filter.

hmmmm. interesting points

What about larger material, like those polished rocks that are 2-3 inches across, or those bigger black rocks that craft shops sell? Or how about really large River Jacks -- they're as big as an ostrich egg..... I don't know. I just don't like the idea of a completely bare bottom tank. I want something down there, but not small gravel that will hold nasty stuff.....

Those are all fine items - as long as the ornaments you pick have no hollow parts that can collect stagnant water/gasses. I do not have completely bare tanks - I glue rocks to manmade plants of one nature or another - for many fish enjoy having a plant to sit in when they are sleeping. I used to have some larger rocks in other tanks, but have since streamlined - I hate scubbing rocks! All my fish are happy, thriving and growing amazingly large.

guys. What about the tanning bed issue I posted about?

What color is the bottom of ur tank? Might wanna paint it with something dark or cover with some dark aquarium wallpaper

I wasn't complaining...I like the color black. Eventually I'll add back in large river rocks in the center, but not till the fish move into something bigger. I guess I am the only one who's noticed fish turning black after removing the gravel. But only 2 are - the orandas are still the same colors.

Not sure if anyone mentioned, bare bottom tanks have less surface area, so if one person messes up and cleans there filter and scraped all the glass clean (beginners mistake) there's a higher chance of a crash in the bio-filtration cycle with a bare bottom tank than with a tank with more surface area, as with gravel.

This also applies to those who have a really bad filtration system as goldfishes needs an exceptional one, so the surface area in the filter might not be enough for a bare bottom tank. (economic woes?)

In the end it just depends on how new you are to aquatics as most people who are experienced knows it's not necessary to get a "thorough cleaning" and also knows how big a filter must be.

well, i would like to turn my tank into a barebottom but my dad likes the gravel =[

but whenever i go to change the water and vacuum the gravel, a whole bunch of mulm always pops up and makes everything dirty.

My tank is barebottom, and Spook LOST all his black. He went from being all black with a small orange belly, to being 100% orange.

I think that equating the loss of black on a fish to a tank being barebottomed is a bit like saying if you dance and sing all night, the sun will rise.

The sun will rise whether or not you dance and sing. A fish so genetically designed will loose its black - whether or not you have a bare bottomed tank.

Gravel holds so little beneficial bacteria (only the top most surface and that is turned under each and every time you vacumn) that it really is not a factor in a goldfish nitrogen cycle. A gravel bottom might help some - but it is soooo little it is really not worth worrying about. Goldfish need SO much that you cannot count on the gravel to do anything of consequence.

Maniacholic is correct - but one of the things we try to teach here, on Koko's, is the use of exceptional filtration systems - more efficiant than gravel or UGF or such....