After losing 3 fish last week (to what I think was an overabundance of water lettuce) it looks like one may have dropsy. I first noticed a couple of days ago that sharky looked bloated. Today I go out and his scales are sticking out and he has a yellowish color to his sides and he looks slightly pineconey. I have moved him to a quarrantine tank and salted the water.
I did get some test strips but I am not sure of accuracy.
ph=7-8
ammonia= 0-.25 (hard to read on strips)
temp is about 78 degrees
nitrates I can't get a reading on
nitrites showed normal range on the color strip
(oh I don't like these strips)
On the salt I added about 1/8 teas. per gallon. Hope this is enough. If anyone knows please advise. He is in a 60 gal tank
These are all pond fish so I can only control their environment to a certain degree.
I don't have any access to antibiotic meds for him.
Any other ideas?
Thinking about doing a partial water change tomorrow. It's cool out today so I don't want to do it now, plus I just moved him and I don't want to cause further stress.
Full Version: Pond Nightmare Not Over Yet
Kendon, since he is in a hospital tank right now, that is better to treat and dose than a bigger water volume like the pond, which is good - and a lot cheaper too.
For the salt, use epsom salt, NO OTHER SALT - it helps draw the liquid ouf of the fish. And the dosage for epsom salt is 1/8 teaspoon per 5 gl.
You can't get antibiotic meds right now, that is a bit tricky. Without it, the chances for the fish are not as good, unfortunately. Salt alone won't do the trick. Where do you live? I might be able to send you some, however time is precious, and the mail will take a few days. Send me a PM with your addy if you are interested...
Oh, and the temperature also needs to be a bit higher, somewhere in the 84-86 degree range. If you have a heater, raise it by 2 degrees per hour - that is a safe rate without further stressing the fish.
All the other fish in the pond doing fine now?
For the salt, use epsom salt, NO OTHER SALT - it helps draw the liquid ouf of the fish. And the dosage for epsom salt is 1/8 teaspoon per 5 gl.
You can't get antibiotic meds right now, that is a bit tricky. Without it, the chances for the fish are not as good, unfortunately. Salt alone won't do the trick. Where do you live? I might be able to send you some, however time is precious, and the mail will take a few days. Send me a PM with your addy if you are interested...
Oh, and the temperature also needs to be a bit higher, somewhere in the 84-86 degree range. If you have a heater, raise it by 2 degrees per hour - that is a safe rate without further stressing the fish.
All the other fish in the pond doing fine now?
Ranchugirl-you are so sweet! Thanks so much for your offer to help. I forgot that there is a small pond shop near here. She doesn't have alot but she did have Furan2 (ingredients:Nitrofurazone, Furazolidone, and methylene blue trihydrate)
She also had melafix. Would you do both at the same time? And do you think this will help?
The fantail I was having problems with is also bloated and looking yellow so he is in the hospital tank too.
The other 4 in the pond seem to be just fine. I changed some of their water today and the ammonia is down to 0. It did cool the water a bit but it is supposed to be in the nineties tomorrow so It will warm up.
Same for the hospital tank. It is in the sun most of the day and is already up to 82 degrees.
I really appreciate your help. I'm really at a loss since I've never had any problems like this before. I already have it in my mind that these two guys will make it or not, but want to do all I can for them.
She also had melafix. Would you do both at the same time? And do you think this will help?
The fantail I was having problems with is also bloated and looking yellow so he is in the hospital tank too.
The other 4 in the pond seem to be just fine. I changed some of their water today and the ammonia is down to 0. It did cool the water a bit but it is supposed to be in the nineties tomorrow so It will warm up.
Same for the hospital tank. It is in the sun most of the day and is already up to 82 degrees.
I really appreciate your help. I'm really at a loss since I've never had any problems like this before. I already have it in my mind that these two guys will make it or not, but want to do all I can for them.
Sorry for not being here the last few days - computer troubles, and I don't have much time to drive to the library and thei public computers all that much...
Was the temperature difference before or after the dropsy symptoms started? And yes, if you can't get anything else, Furan2 will have to do. I kind of like the sun as my "partner in crime" during the summer - it keeps the water heated without the use of a heater. I have the one hospital tank for my big bellied girl out under the gazebo at the moment, just for the purpose of keeping the water warmer. It doesn't drop at all during the night time either, fortunately.
I just realized that you don't have enough posts yet to PM me, so if you still need the medicated food, send me your addy to RAJ-Pecher@msn.com....
Was the temperature difference before or after the dropsy symptoms started? And yes, if you can't get anything else, Furan2 will have to do. I kind of like the sun as my "partner in crime" during the summer - it keeps the water heated without the use of a heater. I have the one hospital tank for my big bellied girl out under the gazebo at the moment, just for the purpose of keeping the water warmer. It doesn't drop at all during the night time either, fortunately.
I just realized that you don't have enough posts yet to PM me, so if you still need the medicated food, send me your addy to RAJ-Pecher@msn.com....
Good to see you again! Sorry about the puter problems, that can be pretty aggravating.
Actually things seem to be looking up at the moment. The fantail is looking normal and is swimming around begging for food and is just generally acting like herself. Or himself, not sure LOL!
The shubunkin is still bloated but he is also way more active. It seems like some of the yellowness has faded also. His scales are still out but maybe just a little less. At any rate neither one is bottom sitting anymore and are looking better. I am kind of having a wait and see attitude right now.
The temp change was in the fishpond after I moved the sick ones out.
I have been checking water alot now that I can and I am seeing that the ph is pretty high (8.2), the water is hard and alkaline. Here's what I figured out on that; this is the water they have always lived and thrived in. The ammonia is 0 and so are nitrates. Nitrite level is 0.
Unfortunately I don't have enough plants in the pond since I yanked all the water lettuce. I had an elephant ear and cannas on the ledge but I'm afraid the roots are holding whatever contaminated the water to begin with. I do have a dining canopy over the whole thing though so it is getting some shade.
We added a bigger pump to go to the biofilter and that made a huge difference. You were right that our pump was too small. I am experimenting with not having a mechanical filter. Only the biofilter. I am going to watch my water carefully and see what happens. I was told that the mechanical filter is redundant and disrupts the biofilter. What do you think about that? The pondmaster just dumps loads of stuff into the water when I pull it out to clean.
I apprecite the offer for the food but I can't really afford to put any more money into this right now. I can just do the best I can and hope he survives. The salt bath (dip) seemed to do alot of good and I am thinking about changing some of the water in the hospital tank since I didn't do that after using the furan(2 treatments). Depending on the weather I might just bucket it from the house so I can use warmer water. They really perked up when the water got warmer.
Thanks so much for your help. I'll try to get back soon and update.
Actually things seem to be looking up at the moment. The fantail is looking normal and is swimming around begging for food and is just generally acting like herself. Or himself, not sure LOL!
The shubunkin is still bloated but he is also way more active. It seems like some of the yellowness has faded also. His scales are still out but maybe just a little less. At any rate neither one is bottom sitting anymore and are looking better. I am kind of having a wait and see attitude right now.
The temp change was in the fishpond after I moved the sick ones out.
I have been checking water alot now that I can and I am seeing that the ph is pretty high (8.2), the water is hard and alkaline. Here's what I figured out on that; this is the water they have always lived and thrived in. The ammonia is 0 and so are nitrates. Nitrite level is 0.
Unfortunately I don't have enough plants in the pond since I yanked all the water lettuce. I had an elephant ear and cannas on the ledge but I'm afraid the roots are holding whatever contaminated the water to begin with. I do have a dining canopy over the whole thing though so it is getting some shade.
We added a bigger pump to go to the biofilter and that made a huge difference. You were right that our pump was too small. I am experimenting with not having a mechanical filter. Only the biofilter. I am going to watch my water carefully and see what happens. I was told that the mechanical filter is redundant and disrupts the biofilter. What do you think about that? The pondmaster just dumps loads of stuff into the water when I pull it out to clean.
I apprecite the offer for the food but I can't really afford to put any more money into this right now. I can just do the best I can and hope he survives. The salt bath (dip) seemed to do alot of good and I am thinking about changing some of the water in the hospital tank since I didn't do that after using the furan(2 treatments). Depending on the weather I might just bucket it from the house so I can use warmer water. They really perked up when the water got warmer.
Thanks so much for your help. I'll try to get back soon and update.
Please tell me if anyone has seen dropsy with this yellow color? And he has some reddish color on this sides toward his belly.
He seems to be doing better but swelling is not going down. I wonder if I am treating him for wrong thing?
He seems to be doing better but swelling is not going down. I wonder if I am treating him for wrong thing?
Man, he looks bloated! 
I hardly see dropsy on a slender fish like a shubunkin, and its tough to see such a slim fish blow up like that.
Kendon, just email me your addy, there is no money needed. I have a jar full of medicated food that I can't all use up within the expiration period. At least I hope not, otherwise my fish are in big trouble...
Its only a few cent for the stamps, so please, don't worry about it. Its "on the house"...
About the yellowing, I am wondering if it is a calico "symptom", so to speak. The calicos have a different makeup of coloration, with all the color pattern involved what makes a calico. Maybe the yellow just looks so weird because it is the underlaying color to make up some of the blues or whites in a calico, and you usually wouldn't see it that much since the scales are always flat.
Otherwise I never heard of the color yellow showing like that in a dropsied fish.
Dropsy is a long term thing to deal with, and you might not see the swelling going down right away. Might also be that the Furan just isn't strong enough. Melafix sure won't do the trick, that stuff is even weaker. As for the salt, you don't have it permanently in the hospital tank - you only dip the fish in it, and then put him back into salt free water? The epsom salt really should be in the hospital tank all the time.
Usually mechanical and biological filtration works hand in hand, and a lot of the mechanical filter media is also considered biological, since it also holds the bio bugs. The pondmaster isn't the greatest example of such filtration, but there are plenty of other filters out there that do an excellent job - mechanical and biological. I never would use biologial alone, since those big waste pieces need to be picked up and collected by something, otherwise they are just going to end up in the pond over and over again. If you leave the mechanical media out of the filter, the biological media holds all the waste, and some of that media just isn't made for that purpose. The pores are very small in biological filter media, and are being clogged up very easily by waste. Waste that otherwise wouldn't even reach the biological media, if the mechanical media would have grabbed on to it. Clogged up pores prevent the beneficial bacteria from "breathing", and suffocate it. Hence making it useless.
I hardly see dropsy on a slender fish like a shubunkin, and its tough to see such a slim fish blow up like that. Kendon, just email me your addy, there is no money needed. I have a jar full of medicated food that I can't all use up within the expiration period. At least I hope not, otherwise my fish are in big trouble...
Its only a few cent for the stamps, so please, don't worry about it. Its "on the house"... About the yellowing, I am wondering if it is a calico "symptom", so to speak. The calicos have a different makeup of coloration, with all the color pattern involved what makes a calico. Maybe the yellow just looks so weird because it is the underlaying color to make up some of the blues or whites in a calico, and you usually wouldn't see it that much since the scales are always flat.
Otherwise I never heard of the color yellow showing like that in a dropsied fish. Dropsy is a long term thing to deal with, and you might not see the swelling going down right away. Might also be that the Furan just isn't strong enough. Melafix sure won't do the trick, that stuff is even weaker. As for the salt, you don't have it permanently in the hospital tank - you only dip the fish in it, and then put him back into salt free water? The epsom salt really should be in the hospital tank all the time.
Usually mechanical and biological filtration works hand in hand, and a lot of the mechanical filter media is also considered biological, since it also holds the bio bugs. The pondmaster isn't the greatest example of such filtration, but there are plenty of other filters out there that do an excellent job - mechanical and biological. I never would use biologial alone, since those big waste pieces need to be picked up and collected by something, otherwise they are just going to end up in the pond over and over again. If you leave the mechanical media out of the filter, the biological media holds all the waste, and some of that media just isn't made for that purpose. The pores are very small in biological filter media, and are being clogged up very easily by waste. Waste that otherwise wouldn't even reach the biological media, if the mechanical media would have grabbed on to it. Clogged up pores prevent the beneficial bacteria from "breathing", and suffocate it. Hence making it useless.
You might be right about the mechanical filter, I had thought of the bigger pieces too. What kind of filter would you suggest to be a good one? I really have grown to hate the pondmaster. Funny, when we bought it we thougt we were going top of the line!
BTW, I do have the hospital tank salted with a lower dose than the dip. I am going so crazy with this whole thing I'm getting confused!
BTW, I do have the hospital tank salted with a lower dose than the dip. I am going so crazy with this whole thing I'm getting confused!
Kendon, do me a favor and re-send your addy again - stupid me accidentally deleted it!! 
Oh, so there is salt int he hospital tank 24/7? Then you are okay. I just though that you only dipped the fish once a day in salted water, and then put him back into an unsalted hospital tank. Now is all clear...
I have two personal favorites when it comes to pond filters. One is the "Fish Mate" filter, and that one comes with or without UV sterilizer - so that is an option you have. I have tried both versions, and right now don't have the UV lights turned on, since I rather have green water. But its really up to your taste - if you don't battle green water at all, or it doesn't bother you, look into the FishMate without UV option.
With UV option....
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/11671/product.web
and without....
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/11670/product.web
All of them come in different sizes, depending on how big your pond is. All you need is a pump according to the filter, and it says on the box what maximum strength the pond pump needs to have.
Then there is the Tetra Pond Clear Choice filters, which basically look like green barrels. They also come in different sizes, and personally, those filters hold a HUGE amount of filter media. Another option that I really like is that there is a little opening in the filter that draws oxygen into the filter, which enriches the life of the beneficial bacteria in the filter. The bio bugs work more efficient with oxygen - the more the better. Plus instead of just dumping the incoming water onto the media, there is a spray bar inside (basically a pipe with various holes in it), and it gets the oxygenated water all over the filter media, not just concentrated in one spot.
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/11673/product.web
I use both filters at the moment, with the ClearChoice being my favorite here. The blend in really well, since they both are green, and are very efficient. I got mine online, since its cheaper, but most pet stores carry both of them. Both filters are easily to clean, although the UV version of the FishMate holds slightly less filter media, since one chamber in the filter is reserved for the UV light.
Oh, so there is salt int he hospital tank 24/7? Then you are okay. I just though that you only dipped the fish once a day in salted water, and then put him back into an unsalted hospital tank. Now is all clear...
I have two personal favorites when it comes to pond filters. One is the "Fish Mate" filter, and that one comes with or without UV sterilizer - so that is an option you have. I have tried both versions, and right now don't have the UV lights turned on, since I rather have green water. But its really up to your taste - if you don't battle green water at all, or it doesn't bother you, look into the FishMate without UV option.
With UV option....
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/11671/product.web
and without....
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/11670/product.web
All of them come in different sizes, depending on how big your pond is. All you need is a pump according to the filter, and it says on the box what maximum strength the pond pump needs to have.
Then there is the Tetra Pond Clear Choice filters, which basically look like green barrels. They also come in different sizes, and personally, those filters hold a HUGE amount of filter media. Another option that I really like is that there is a little opening in the filter that draws oxygen into the filter, which enriches the life of the beneficial bacteria in the filter. The bio bugs work more efficient with oxygen - the more the better. Plus instead of just dumping the incoming water onto the media, there is a spray bar inside (basically a pipe with various holes in it), and it gets the oxygenated water all over the filter media, not just concentrated in one spot.
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/11673/product.web
I use both filters at the moment, with the ClearChoice being my favorite here. The blend in really well, since they both are green, and are very efficient. I got mine online, since its cheaper, but most pet stores carry both of them.
Both filters are easily to clean, although the UV version of the FishMate holds slightly less filter media, since one chamber in the filter is reserved for the UV light.
My poor little guy looks about the same today. I did a partial water change, adding new salt to the new water. I'm completely out of everything except the melafix. I don't see where it has done any good so I did not add any today. The fantail in with him on the other hand is looking wonderful! She has slimmed down(no scales sticking out) and is begging for food everytime I go out to look at them. He is also getting around much better, alot more active and begging for food. It has been pretty warm the last few days (in the 90's) so I haven't worried about temps too much, and the new water I added today came from the house so it wasn't too cold. We have well water so no worries about chlorine here.
http://www.sunterrausa.com/gardens/product...5&SUBCAT=45
This is the filter we have and I realized today that it is a mechaniical filter also. It has course foam and fine, then a cover, then bioballs. It has a pressure thing on it so I can see if it gets clogged and is set up to backwash with pond water so I don't loose good bacteria. It's a pressurized system and we are using a waterfall pump that I know is enough. The discharge is dropping about 3" or so for aeration, and I adding a double spitting frog to help with that also. The fish in there seem pretty lively and happy. The male is chasing everyone like crazy!
Now, not to be dumb or anything, the outside of the pond filters then count on the pump to suck up the nasties? See we were running this one and the pondmaster. Not the pondmaster alone. I have removed it entirely and have been checking water almost daily and so far so good. Maybe this is enough? My water is sparkling. I don't have enough plants though. There's alot of open space in there. I'll post a picture of the setup tomorrow.
I found an article in Wikipedia about water lettuce and it did say it can block air/gas exchange and kill fish. I really think that is what started this whole nightmare.
http://www.sunterrausa.com/gardens/product...5&SUBCAT=45
This is the filter we have and I realized today that it is a mechaniical filter also. It has course foam and fine, then a cover, then bioballs. It has a pressure thing on it so I can see if it gets clogged and is set up to backwash with pond water so I don't loose good bacteria. It's a pressurized system and we are using a waterfall pump that I know is enough. The discharge is dropping about 3" or so for aeration, and I adding a double spitting frog to help with that also. The fish in there seem pretty lively and happy. The male is chasing everyone like crazy!
Now, not to be dumb or anything, the outside of the pond filters then count on the pump to suck up the nasties? See we were running this one and the pondmaster. Not the pondmaster alone. I have removed it entirely and have been checking water almost daily and so far so good. Maybe this is enough? My water is sparkling. I don't have enough plants though. There's alot of open space in there. I'll post a picture of the setup tomorrow.
I found an article in Wikipedia about water lettuce and it did say it can block air/gas exchange and kill fish. I really think that is what started this whole nightmare.
Now, that IS a pretty good filter - my hubby has a very similar one for his koi fry, and he is very happy with it. You can close one part, where the water comes out, and there is a little hose attached where you can backwash, right? That is at least how hubby's filter works. He got it at Petsmart, and he likes it.
The green barrel ponds rely on a pump for picking up stuff, yes - the pump is in the pond, it connects via a hose to the outside-filter, and it pumps the water through the filter and out a spout. I either run the water right back into the pond, or with some heavier stocked ponds like my wakin fry pond, I have an additional regular rubbermaid container filled with lava rocks and/or aquatic plants, and some holes on the top part of the rubbermaid, and the output from the filter runs through that rubbermaid first before it goes back into the pond. That way I can almost double the filter media (lava rock in the rubbermaid). I also can control my plant growth and mass with it, since it never overtakes the pond and is confined to the rubbermaid. I think I have to fetch a picture of the setup, so its easier to understand.
As to if it is enough, just this one filter of yours, that also depends on the strength of the pump - how many gl/h does it pump? It should say it somewhere on the pump, unless it looks somewhat like mine and is completely covered in algae...
Btw, look out for an envelope with goldfish stickers....
The green barrel ponds rely on a pump for picking up stuff, yes - the pump is in the pond, it connects via a hose to the outside-filter, and it pumps the water through the filter and out a spout. I either run the water right back into the pond, or with some heavier stocked ponds like my wakin fry pond, I have an additional regular rubbermaid container filled with lava rocks and/or aquatic plants, and some holes on the top part of the rubbermaid, and the output from the filter runs through that rubbermaid first before it goes back into the pond. That way I can almost double the filter media (lava rock in the rubbermaid). I also can control my plant growth and mass with it, since it never overtakes the pond and is confined to the rubbermaid. I think I have to fetch a picture of the setup, so its easier to understand.
As to if it is enough, just this one filter of yours, that also depends on the strength of the pump - how many gl/h does it pump? It should say it somewhere on the pump, unless it looks somewhat like mine and is completely covered in algae...
Btw, look out for an envelope with goldfish stickers....
Thanks for the input about filters. Here's my setup:
My filter is in a 5 gallon bucket buried to the rim. The pump is 3560 gph which is a bit much but we also have a valve we can attach to slow it down some
This is how clear my water is
But I have a serious lack of plants since I yanked most of the water lettuce. It's pretty late in the season for most things so I'm not sure what I could put in there now. Any suggestions on that?
My filter is in a 5 gallon bucket buried to the rim. The pump is 3560 gph which is a bit much but we also have a valve we can attach to slow it down some
This is how clear my water is
But I have a serious lack of plants since I yanked most of the water lettuce. It's pretty late in the season for most things so I'm not sure what I could put in there now. Any suggestions on that?
Wow, that is a nice pond, Kendon! 
The pump definetely is adequate for the filter, that is good. And the fish have enough added airation with the spitting frog.
Even further up north, you might just get lucky that the water lettuce starts multiplying enough to at least add some nice, green touch to the pond. I have a purple taro plant in one of my filters, as well as those spider plants that you usually find in hanging baskets. Both died during the winter, but came back in the spring. Of course, it was never a real winter - after all, we are talking south GA here... The spider plant actually doesn't even need soil, I just stick it into my home made rubbermaid filters.
I also like the papyrus plant in the pond - they just grow like crazy, and I have to divide mine often. But its manageable, since they grow in pots. I bought one dwarf papyrus, and have had about 6 fully grown plants from that single plant since then. And I don't know why they call that thing "dwarf" - it grows to a nice 6 ft in the water... Again, probably not something for further up north.
How about cat tails? They should do good in a plastic pot in a pond.
The pump definetely is adequate for the filter, that is good. And the fish have enough added airation with the spitting frog.
Even further up north, you might just get lucky that the water lettuce starts multiplying enough to at least add some nice, green touch to the pond. I have a purple taro plant in one of my filters, as well as those spider plants that you usually find in hanging baskets. Both died during the winter, but came back in the spring. Of course, it was never a real winter - after all, we are talking south GA here...
The spider plant actually doesn't even need soil, I just stick it into my home made rubbermaid filters.I also like the papyrus plant in the pond - they just grow like crazy, and I have to divide mine often. But its manageable, since they grow in pots. I bought one dwarf papyrus, and have had about 6 fully grown plants from that single plant since then. And I don't know why they call that thing "dwarf" - it grows to a nice 6 ft in the water...
Again, probably not something for further up north.How about cat tails? They should do good in a plastic pot in a pond.
Thank you so much for your gift Ranchugirl! It arrived yesterday. Sharkboy has shown a huge improvement! When I went out yesterday he had slimmed quite a bit, scales were almost all laying down and he is trying to spawn the fantail in there with him! I'd say that is a good sign I'm thinking I will give it another week and if all is still well I will move them back to the pond. I think you were right about the yellow being the underlaying color since it is almost gone and his spots started showing through a couple of days ago and as he slims he loses the yellow and more spots and that bluish color is mostly what you see.Thank you so much for helping me with this!!!
I'm thinking I will give it another week and if all is still well I will move them back to the pond. I think you were right about the yellow being the underlaying color since it is almost gone and his spots started showing through a couple of days ago and as he slims he loses the yellow and more spots and that bluish color is mostly what you see.Thank you so much for helping me with this!!!
You are welcome - I love positive outcomes like that! 
Is that Sharkboy in your signature?
Is that Sharkboy in your signature?
Well, today was not real condusive to good pictures but here he is:
No that is one of the others in my sig. I should use him now since we've been through so much together!! Normally I can't get very good pics of him because he is so fast, thus the name sharkboy!
No that is one of the others in my sig. I should use him now since we've been through so much together!! Normally I can't get very good pics of him because he is so fast, thus the name sharkboy!
Now, THAT is a nice difference compared to a few days ago! 
He looks so good now...
He looks so good now...
Shark boy and fanny are back in the pond today!! They are both doing great. It was funny though, when I first put them back the big orange male (I guess he's a common) and shark boy looked like they were sniffin' each other. They postured for awhile but by suppertime everyone seems to be getting along lke old times.
I have some more questions about my filter that I am going to post in the pond section. Hope to see you there ranchugirl.
I have some more questions about my filter that I am going to post in the pond section. Hope to see you there ranchugirl.
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