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Full Version: Murray (oranda) Is Sick.
Forum > The Goldfish Topics > Disease Diagnosis/ Treatments > Diagnosis & Discussion
coornelius
Murray's basically been freaking out - breathing really hard, swimming frantically around the tank, and sometimes floating/swimming weakly. On Thursday, I had to pull him off of the filter. Friday, he seemed stronger and ate when I fed him, so I followed up on plans to go home for the weekend.

Now, I'm back in town, and he's still very hyperactive - swimming as fast as he can randomly all over the place.
I'm worried, and want to make sure the little guy's alright, and I don't have a lot of experience with this. Help? I suspect the alkalinity and PH are way too high, but what do I do about that?

Ammonia: 0.50
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10
PH - not sure, but i think it's really high.

tank size: 12 gallons, has been running since February (Murray's been in it since the end of March).

Filter's an Eclipse (the tank is one of those all-in-one units)

I do a 50% water change every two weeks, but I did it early this week when he started showing symptoms.

One medium size oranda in the tank.

He eats zucchini and a weekly drop of Wardley goldfish crumbles.

water additives: Stress Coat, Stress Zyme, Algae Destroyer Advanced.

No new fish, no strange findings on the fish.
RYUU
It sounds like chemical poisoning and I wouldn't rule out parasite problems. You can read up on it here. Look under fish swimming wildly.

How long have you had this guy? And what kind of tests are you using?
coornelius
I've had him since the end of March, and I'm using Mardel 5 in 1 strips and Mardel Ammonia strips to test the water.
RYUU
Strip tests are not as accurate as drop test kits they basically give you a ballpark figure. I use strip tests myself but only when my fish aren't having health issues. Ballpark figures aren't worth a crap if your fish is sick. If you can get an API master test kit I would recommend it ASAP. You've had the fish about 5 months. Is this the first health problems you've had with it? You said you're only changing the water about once every two weeks? That needs to be bumped up to at least once a week if not more.

For now try to get the drop test kit and post your exact readings for you water params. I strongly feel that this may be a water quality issue.
coornelius
Cool, I'll grab those tomorrow. Thanks for the advice!
RYUU
You're welcome. In the mean time until I could get the test kit I would do 50 to 75% water changes (at least 2 or 3 in the space of several hours) to get my water params back in order. Keep us updated I hope your little guy gets to feeling better soon.
coornelius
I did a big water change last night, and am going to get the test kit today. He doesn't seem as frantic, but I'd still like to get the water params straight for sure.

Thanks much for your help so far.
Trinket

I agree it sounds like toxic water issues but another Q for you...do you feed only zuchini? One drop of flakes per week you say?
That is really not enough nutrition for this little guy. He really needs some good quality food in him and the zuchini is not cutting it.
Can you give him those flakes every day and get him some sinking quality pellets that have a full coverage of goldfishes nutritional needs ASAP.

If its just water issues, he should get better fast with more frequent water changes and some good nutrition.Please post back and let us know.

coornelius
Most of the time, it is only zucchini and occasional flakes.

I switched off of flakes most of the time because he was picking them up off of the surface of the water, and had a little swim bladder issue. That scared me off of keeping with those.
RYUU
Omega One is a good sinking pellet that you can find at most LFS.
coornelius
Alright, some answers from my new water testing kit:

PH is ~6.5.

Nitrite and Nitrate are both zero.

He's pooping right now, and it's long, thick, green and trailing behind him.

I tried dropping some of the new pellets in, and he wasn't interested.
Trinket
He needs to know they are food and you may need to hand feed him one so he recognises what it is. It is very important that you feed him sinking food if he has swimbladder issues (as you realised) . Digestion problems, swimming problems and related diseases are common in fish that are not getting well balanced nutrition. No protein (only zuchinni) will mean the fish has no energy, litle swimming power and low ability to fight disease.

Try and get him use to the new food,omega one is great food for goldies! Clear a space in the gravel if you have it or weight down a small plastic food container lid and always serve the pellets on that. It will take a few days before he begins to see these pellets as food.
Do you have the ammonia readings. The other water params look all-right for now if they are stable.
coornelius
Sorry, forgot - ammonia's at zero as well. water seems to be fine, which is a relief.
RYUU
You're ph is too low and how did you get Nitrates at 0? I'm a water quality Nazi and the best I can usually do is 5
coornelius
Maybe I read it wrong? I'll test them again.

How do you raise the PH?
RYUU
Test the water from your tap too. Let's make sure your low ph isn't coming from your tap too.
RYUU
In a pinch you can use baking soda to raise the ph but that's only a temporary fix. From the LFS you can get all kinds of ph adjusters. I like proper ph 7.5. We first need to find out if the ph from the tap is or if its off because other water params are off. This way we can create a long term solution to the problem.

You know what, just go ahead and order this catalog. It's free and I promise it will become your fish's best friend next to you.
coornelius
The PH of my tapwater is 7.0 (neutral).

Nitrates are coming in between 0 and 5 on the color chart (maybe because I did a huge water change last night?)

again, thanks so much for the help - I appreciate it, and once I get everything straight, Murray'll be better off.
coornelius
also, he keeps going back to where i leave the zucchinis - should i put one in for him short term, or keep trying to get him used to this new food?
RYUU
QUOTE(coornelius @ Aug 13 2007, 10:33 PM) *
also, he keeps going back to where i leave the zucchinis - should i put one in for him short term, or keep trying to get him used to this new food?

Try to get him use to the new food. He won't starve. I promise he's got since enough to when he gets hungry enough.
RYUU
the ratio for baking soda is 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons of water. It has to be dissolved though and should be added to a well aerated and/or high flow area of your aquarium. Be aware though that this is just a temp fix.
Yeah its me
Try dropping the sinking pellets where the zucchni goes, it sounds like he is trained that is the place for food.
coornelius
Hey guys - Murray's calmed down a lot. He's not flying around the tank anymore, and seems to be acting much more normally. He's eating the new food (with enthusiasm), and I'm going to try Proper PH today.

thanks so much for the help. I'm looking forward to interacting with you all much more, now that I've found the site. I want the little guy to have the best life he can.
RYUU
Glad to hear it. We'll see ya around the board!
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