Above questions answered in order. Im currently setting up a 10G with Tap and Amquel. I know the PH is low but nothing I can do about that now except raise it slowly. Ill try to get a pic in of his coloration. Other fish in tank are fine

Tank he was in:

29G long
Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - 5ppm
PH - 6.7
Penguin Bio wheel 200
1/3 every 2 weeks
(3) Patch about 3-4" iong - Goober about 2-3" long - Pleco about 6"
None
No
No
Hikari Flake - Mix to keep from floating
One side of body discoloration from center to tail. Dark Reddish at tail similar to bruising
When swimming body is crooked to side that is discolored. Swims vertically or lays on bruised side at bottom. Slight fin separation at the tips on tail but not torn or decayed. Occured within last 24 hours. Tank Mates are peaceful. Patch and Goober cannot be seperated. Swim together, eat together, sleep together.

Tank in now:
30G Hex
Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - 10ppm
PH - 6.0
Penguin Bio Wheel 200
Cycled tank no fish or ornaments except river rock. In operation 3 months


Tap Water Readings
Ammonia - 4ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - 0ppm
PH - >7.6


RO Water
Ammonia - .25ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 0ppm
PH - 6.6

Here is the pic. Although its blurry, you should still be able to make out the discoloration along his side.

Geesh poor you and the little one

It looks awfully like a bad internal bacterial infection. You will need some antibiotic treatment here definitely. Do you have medicated food (medigold from Goldfish connection? ) at hand? And you should probably medicate the tank too.

I hope a Mod will check in here for you but meanwhile I should get the fish started on some medigold food immediately if he is still eating.

I feel trinket is on the right track. I would stick with her advice unless a mod jumps in and tells you differently.

Thanks for the response Trinket.

Unfortunatley I do not have any medicated food or medication right now. Ill have to pick some up in the morning if it turns out to be bacterial. I am thinking its more PH related than anything else though as the streaks down his side sound like problems others have had with PH crashes. The side swimming at the bottom would fall in there also.

Of course, In my panic I moved him to the other tank thinking the 29G was what was hurting him and I may have done more damage since that only has a PH of 6.

I have him in a 10G bare tank with about 1/3 water and heavy aeration atm. I have another 5 Gallon curing that ill change in the morning.

Right now I guess its a wait and see thing as I dont even have any salt to put in the water

Baking soda will raise that PH nicely. I hope he gets better soon!

Whats the ratio for the Baking soda?

CAC the low pH should probably be raised but I think there is more than that going on here. If you had falling pH wouldn't the other fish
also be displaying symptoms. Usually the fish will gasp at the surface and or bottom sit and you'll see the slime coat peeling off as the pH plunges.

You can add baking soda at 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons of water. It has to be dissolved and should be added to a well aerated /high flow area of the tank. It isn't a longterm solution though and you might want to look at addig coral/crushed coral to your filters to mantain a higher pH longterm.

Thanks for the info Trinket.

He made it through the night at least but barely. Right now he is sitting on the bottom of the tank on his side flickering like he is trying to swim but cant. He'll wiggle slightly then stop then repeat. His color is fading and the blood streaks are now the entire lenght of his body. I still have him in the 10G with about 1/3 water and an big air bar that produces fine bubbles. Since he's sitting on the bottom on his side, I didnt think the added weight of the water would be good for him at this time.

I noticed that the anal opening seems a bit enlarged, to my untrained eye that is. Could it be severe constipation that has caused a bacterial infection? He is not bloated or emaciated just looks like something out of an undead movie. I havent tried feeding him but I seriously doubt that he would eat in his current condition.

Im going to hit the store this morning for some salt and anti-bacterial med but I wish I could determine what I was treating for.

Ive also starting bringing up the PH slowly in the 29G hoping that if it is the cause Ill stop it prior to the other fish being afflicted.

Hunter, you are raising the pH in the hex tank too, right? Do you have any idea why the pH is always so low? I see the RO water is low on pH, but the tap water should balance it out somewhat. I am not too familiar with RO water, but doesn't it have almost no buffering capacity at all? If you can, have your water tested for kH an gH - those are important components in determining why the pH is low in your tank.

I'd suggest using only tap water, but I assume you have added the RO water because the tap water contains ammonia, right? Have you considered treating the tap water overnight with ammonia remover like Prime, and then adding it to the tank the next morning? Maybe that'll help with the pH issues?

That said, it looks pretty bacterial to me as well. The fish doesn't lose its slime coat, right? There is no white film on him, as far as I can see on the picture. I'd say that the fish needs help from the inside and the outside - with medicated food and antibiotics in the water, like Maracyn I or II. He does look thin, but he might always be like that. He hasn't lost weight, has he? And did he eat today? I would definetely try to keep him eating - it'll keep up its strength.

Thanks for Responding Ranchu.

To answer your questions:

Yes, I am raising the PH in the Hex as well but I moved him out of it last night into a 10G with Tap water treated with Prime. I only filled it about 1/3 of the way and added the air bar. I have another 5 gallon bucket curing right now.

No idea why the PH took a dive like that on me. The Hex tank is at 90 degrees with no heater, no direct sunlight and I havent had the hood lamp on in over a month since it hasnt been stocked. The 29G long is at 82 degree's with no heater or direct sunlight. The hood lamp comes on for about 4 hours everyday. Why its PH is .6 points higher I dont know as this one has the fish in it.

My water is on the slightly Harder side of the scale. I dont use the RO water except for my Betta's. The Tap water is used for water changes after being treated with prime.

As for Patch, he does have a white film that looks like its starting to develop on him. He is shaped like a bullet normally but I noticed that he is now starting to show a little sunkeness along his tail.

I picked up some salt today and Im going to try a Dip first and then salt the tank to 1% while he is in the dip. Can I mix the Bacterial Meds with the salt with no issue? I am currently Not filtering the 10G he is in. Just changing the water and keeping the ammonia and Nitrites detoxed.

As for food, Can I try peas or would that not be advised due to his condition? I cant find any medicated food atm.

here is a slightly clearer picture. noyice the dark coloration at the base of the tail and the top fin. there is also what looks a thin white film over half his body

You can feed him peas no problem, Hunter - as long as he gets food into him, that is good. The white film could be from the pH effects - it doesn't have to go over his entire body. Some fish just get patches of it, while others look like they fell into pancake batter.

And yes, you can use the Maracyn's just fine with salt. Just keep an eye on your water, and have enough extra water ready for any possible 100% water changes. The water might get cloudy a bit from the Maracyn, but that is okay.

If you need a few pellets of Metromed to see if he improves on it, send me a PM, and I can mail you out some. Just got a new container, and that stuff usually expires in my house if I don't send some off here and there.

Ok salting is done. His tail fins are becomming much more frayed now. The others look ok. His tail was one of his better features. Looked like Silk in water when he swam around.

Also tried some food but he wouldnt eat it. Is there a liquid medicated food that can be put directly into their mouths? Or if i liquify the food on my own is it advisable to try and feed it to him via a dropper? I'm going to check one more LFS after work to see if i can get some medicated food but since hes not eating im at a loss how to treat him internally.

As for the tank meds, which do I use? Or do I use both I & II?

Thanks in advance

You can make a paste out of the food if you want to, and yes, try feeding him with a dropper. He might spit it back out though. If you have garlic in the house, smush it, and have a few pellets of whatever you are feeding sit in it for a bit. The intense smell of the garlic gets some fish eating, and it also acts as an immune system enhancer.

As to which Maracyn to use, it is a guessing game at the moment. Since we don't know what kind of bacteria it is, its hard to say which one to use. Each treats different bacteria, gram positive or negative, and I'd say pick one and stick with it for a few days, looking for improvements. If nothing happens, switch over to the other. I heard some people even combine them together, but I personally wouldn't recommend it - some fish have ill effects from both meds together. For me, I usually go for the Maracyn II first, since it is the one that can cure dropsy, which is a rather tough thing to beat, and it always is a better med in my eyes. But again, its a guess at the moment.

I tried feeding him by holding him upright and getting him in front of some food. He would draw the food in but spit it back out shortly thereafter.

He does appear to be improving in activity though. Instead of lying flat on his side with a little twitch here and there, he is now showing a little more bouyancy in the front of his body that allows both of his lower fins to move constantly. they are not clamped either which I take as a good sign. He is still on his side and I am seeing the dark coloration of the blood/bruising at the vent. The whitish film appears to be lifting but his beautiful tail looks like the end of a flag that has been in too many wind storms. Only the tail and the fin behind his vent show signs of damage. all the other fins are in good shape and none are clamped.
He'll get another water change tonight. I have the next dose of MI&II dissolving in the bucket now with a tbs of salt.

Hopefully this is truly a beginning recovery and not a false positive. Once he starts swimming upright Ill take that as a sign he is definatley improving. Eating would be nice also.

Good luck and strength to him

Ok so no change in activity level but the dark blood streaks along his body have lightened up. The area's are now a light pinkish color. He is also still lying on his side and not eating. The whitish film appears to be gone but I spoke to soon about the fin damage. It looks like the fin on his back closest to his tail is starting to have issues at the base.

So its been 4 days now and although he is more active and a little stronger i think, his tail is really getting bad. It actually looks like the skin is starting to deteriorate and the meat itself is showing. He is still on his side as well and not eating.

For todays water change I omitted the salt (was salting 1tbs per 5g) and just went with the MI and II meds. Ill try that for a couple of days to see if I can get an improvement.

I dont want to put him down since he is showing some signs of improvement but at the same time I dont want whatever it is to slowly eat him to death either.

Any other Ideas?

How is he doing today? Tail still deteriorating, or is there an improvement? Or at least not has gotten any worse? Meds still in there?

I wonder if its wise to apply some antibacterial ointment directly to the red, irriated flesh of the tail, wherever it looks so bad. Topical application helps a ton too.

Hey Ranchu, Thanks for the follow-up.

I'm kinda stumped at this point. While he is showing more signs of activity (swimming around the tank, puts up a fight when I change his water, etc) Hes still laying on his side and not eating.

Ive been trying to hand feed him but he just spits it back out. I figure at least maybe he is getting a little food that way. He also seems to like to stay around the air stone a lot which i think is odd because his gills look fine.

His tail is really bad now. Its almost gone as well as the vent fin which is probably why hes on his side. I stopped the salt 2 days ago but I am getting quite a bit of slim and what i can only describe as mildew. Its small black spots on the glass and the air bar. I have him in another 10G that I previously nuked and im sterilizing the other 10G and stone now.

Where do I get this ointment? The only thing I've seen around here is the API Stress Coat (which i have some btw). Would that be similar?

Again, I dont know what else to do at this point. Going to run the course with the MI and II. Im just concerned that hes starving to death at this point. Its been 7 days since hes fed.

Patch died today sometime between 1:30pm and 6pm while I was at work. I expected it, but still a disappointment that everything I tried didnt help him.

Thank you to everyone for their advice and support.

Peace bro.

Man, I am so sorry that Patch didn't make it - looked like he improved at least somewhat, and now this...

Just to answer your question about the ointment though, it doesn't have to be anything "fish" related. I use any ointment that can be used for us humans, and contains antibacterial items. Neosporin is one that comes to mind, but there are others. The cream is somewhat better than the lotion, since its thicker and sticks to the fish longer.

Again, I am very sorry about Patch.