Hi, I’m a complete newbie when it comes to goldfish, so please be understanding if I’m not familiar with much and need some extra clarification

Here are the readings from the test strip when I tested.
Ammonia - 0
Nitrate – 20
Nitrite – 1.0
Ph – 6.8
The strip I used also had Hardness which was a 300 and Alkalinity which was about 70

I have a 5gal Eclipse Hex that has been running since Jan ‘07

There are two fish in the tank both are < = 1 inch in body, about 2-2.5 inches each with fins

I use the Tetra water conditioner when I do a water change to neutralize chlorine

I haven’t added any medications or new fish to the tank

I feed my fish Tetra goldfish crisps

I haven’t noticed any changes in the appearance of the fish, just in Scrapy’s behavior (described below)


My current problem is that I have a small goldie (Scrapy) that has been just sitting at the bottom of the tank for a couple days. It started earlier this week when he seemed a little lazy and so I did about a 40% water change right away and pulled a large portion of the rocks out to make sure there wasn’t something lingering in them.

After I finished the water change and had Scrapy and his tank mate Penelope back in the tank everything seemed great, Scrapy was back swimming around like old times, but then the next day he was back down at the bottom this time seemingly more lazy than before. He currently hardly moves at all and if he does he seems to stay in the same spot and just wriggle if that makes any sense. Oh, and also Scrapy is still eating, but due to the fact that he doesn’t seem to able to get off the bottom of the tank I think he’s been eating less cause he doesn’t swim around the top of the tank eating up what’s there like before he just kinda takes a bite or two and then calls it quits. His breathing seems to be steady, not sure if it’s slower/faster than normal, although it is appearing to be quite labored this morning. As well this morning he is lying belly up on the bottom and made no attempt to eat

Just before I sat down to post this I also removed Penelope into just a Rubbermaid container for now cause I don’t have another tank, and she was lunging at Scrapy as he lay on the bottom today.

(not sure if it applies or not but before the water change Penelope seemed to suffer from something that made her unable to swim well in the tank she just floated to the top unable to remain lower for very long, but that water change completely fixed that and she hasn’t been happier).

Also, not sure it makes a difference, but I gave them some lettuce for the first time after I had put them back in after the water change, they seemed to really take to it cause when I came back for it there were little holes all over from munching.


As I said I am very new to this so the more detailed help the better. I have a few questions of my own too from reading the other posts in this section.

1. Should I put Scrapy into a separate tank until he’s better seeing as Penelope doesn’t seem to have any symptoms? If so please tell me what I need to do for this tank as I will have to purchase any needed equipment cause I currently only have the one tank.

2. If salt is a recommended treatment as seems to frequently be the case, what brand can I use? (preferably something at petsmart or petco or something that a tropical fish store would sell as those are my only local options).

3. I noticed that a drop test kit had been recommended over the strips. I’d like to purchase one to help get through this and any future problems, any brand suggestions?

4. I just use tap water, would it be advised to use some sort of purified water when changing out water to avoid hardness?


Thanks in advance for all your help. Sorry if it ran a little long I just wanted to be a detailed as possible.

I’ve read some of the other posts and am really excited that I finally found this site full of goldie lovers!

sorry about scrappy! how much do you feed him? he might be overfed if so stop feeding him for a day or two.sorry this is the only solution i can give you because i am fairly new also!

Thanks! I don't feed him very much on a regular basis, but as of today he's stopped eating altogether so I guess if there's some problem there it'll be fixed. I did try peas a few minutes ago and I managed to get a little piece to sink right in front of him where he's laying belly up and he didn't even flinch it just sits right in front of his face waiting to be eaten I don't know what I'm gonna do if he doesn't make it.

As an add on to the original post I did go to the store and buy some aquarium salt today in case that is the suggestion I get I'll have it right here, but I haven't added any yet cause I read in previous posts that I shouldn't add any if the nitrites weren't zero.

well all i can suggest is to keep him in QT and try to hand feed him......again sorry about scrappy!

Ok, first off, your water params are 'off'. Nitrite of 1 is dangerous. i wouls suggest doing a 75% waterchange asap. You also stated that you have 2 fish in a 5 gallon tank. this is also bad. One fancy(double tail) goldfish needs a minimal of 10 gallons per fish. this is because these fish can get big, as large as 10 inches. they are also very messy fish dating back to the carp species of fish. Common/ COmet goldfish(single tail) need a minimal of 20 gallons per fish. this is because they can grow even larger than a fancy. Over 14 inches.
Since they were active after you did a water change, your problem is most likely water quality as i pointed out above. He is probally having swimblader issuses due to the nitrite exposure. if you dont keep the nitrites down, it could be perminate.

now i agree with fuzzy peaches, and if i gave you any bad advice

Thanks fuzzy, like I said I am new to this and realyl started my tank on a whim falling in love with Scrapy at the petstore one day when I was strolling through. I suppose I didn't receive very good advice/help from the petstore workers, which from reading many of these posts seems to be the worst place to learn anything about goldies.

I will do the water change immediately, So I should do about 75% and this won't add any stress to him while he's down?

Also, The last water change was just this week they were put back in wed late afternoon and were fine through thursday. What would have caused such a drastic change that the nitrites would have been high to harm him, but right after a water change that seemed to initially help? Looking for some pointers for the future. Thanks.

There are a few possibilites on the nitrite spike. Did you do a major cleaning of the tank recently? Such as doing a large water change and changing the filter? Did you add any new fish? Or did you way over feed one day?
The watef change may be a bit stressing, but it will be better for him in the long run. When you do a water change, you remove most of the harmful nitrites then you add clean nitrite free water. this lowers the nitrites.
Some pointers would be to not clean the filter, and do a water change. This can cause a bump in the cycle causing ammonia and nitrites. Also try to not over feed. this can cause the water to get a bit toxic.

Ok so just change the water out and use just a regular conditioner to take care of the chlorine? Now I remember when I first set up my tank there was an issue with ammonia before I even put the fish in. Should I be concerned about the ammonia in the new water considering it won't have cycled? Also Yes, I had just done a large cleaning, so I am sure that's why the nitrites are high now cause it's having to cycle again. Is it really wise to kill that whole cycle and start fresh? could I just move Scrapy to a different tank and make it a hospital tank where I change the water daily and use salt instead? just trying to find the best option cause I've also got Penelope to worry about I don't want to see her suffer from all the stress of water changes when she's happy in the tank as is.

So I was just reading about what rick had to say about nitrites and he says to salt at a rate of .3% should I go ahead and do this?

Just change the water with treated chlorinated water. If you are concerned about ammonia being in your tap water, test it. If there is, i can explain what to do for that. Adding uncycled water after taking old water out is what your suppose to do. There should be enough good bacteria in the gravel and filter that can handle the new water. without having small spikes in ammonia and nitrite. You dont need to kill the cycle and get an new one either. the same bacteria that supported the old cycle are going to be in the new one.
Oh, and yes, go ahead and salt to .3% Just remember spread it out. Add 1 lever teaspoon for every gallon of water. then do that every 12 hours after that for a total of 3 times.

Hello and welcome to Kokos.
My feeling is that with 2 fish in only 5 gals your bioload can quickly escalate to the point where your cycle can crash. I notice that your PH is 6.8 so this could be one possibilty. Too radical a cleaning of filter media, like Fuzzy said, is another possibilty. Can you test your tap PH? that will help provide more clues.
As a general rule, water changes do not stress fish battling cycle problems - quite the opposite. Some people here do massive water changes even twice a week just to keep them tip-top. Never use bottled water for goldfish - it does not contain the carbonates and minerals that GF require for good health.
The most common reason for ammonia to present in tap water is the addition of chloramine as a disinfectant. This is very toxic to fish but is easily removed and de-toxified by adding Prime to new water.
I think it is vital that you get your fish more space ASAP. Test your water every day and whenever the amm or nite rises above zero, change enough water to reduce the level to zero again. Nitrite is particularly dangerous to fish as it binds to the red blood cells and prevents the uptake of oxygen.
Post back with your tap readings when you can and keep testing and changing out water.
Fingers crossed.

PS when salting you must be sure to disolve the salt before adding it to the tank. Also, be aware that salting to .3% over a 36 hr period can further bump your cycle so test, test, test.

Dang pixie, I was gonna comment but you & FP got this under control!

I'm a chasin' ya round the board, hun

You go girl

Ok so I went to the store today after reading a ton of posts about testing and got a drop kit to test with instead of the strips and here are my new readings from the tank after having done about a 50% water change and salting to .1%

Amm - .25

NitrIte - .25

NitrAte - between 10 and 20

pH - 7.6

and the tap pH is 7.6 as well

that must explain the rise in pH from before, or possibly that the strips reading initially wasn't that great. I still don't really understand what affects pH so a little explanation on that would help as well please

As for an update on Scrapy he managed to somehow move from the front of the tank to the back on his own while I wasn't watching. Although, he is still belly up.

Should I continue with a water change on a daily basis? If so how do I regulate the salt doing so? I don't want to over/under do it.

Thanks again for all the help I've received so far. Looking forward to more advice on how to get Scrapy up and about eating again.


Oh, should I just not bother trying to feed him for a few days as well? or keep trying to feed him some peas?

please keep in mind he is super small to be able to force feed him very easily

Ph is a reading on how acidic your water is. A ph of 7 is nutral. In other words, not acidic or alkiline(sp?). lower than 7 is acidic(getting stronger while the numbers go down) and higher than 8 is alkiline(getting stronger as the numbers go up).
I would keep doing water changes everyday until the ammonia and nitrite are at 0. I would also keep adding salt with the new water.
Try to keep feeding him. If he refuses to eat, then dont feed him for a few days. If he wont eat longer than about 4 days, you may have to force feed, but im not really sure on that. Im sure pixie or olivia will give the final word on that.

Thanks for the quick response Fuzzy!

Ok, how does it work when I change the water with the salt concentration? is it 1-1 so that if I pull a gallon out and am putting a gallon back in, add a teaspoon of salt to the new water? or does the salt remain in the water and maybe I should consider lowering the 'dosage'?

On a side note, I haven't put Penelope back in yet cause I don't want to have to worry about her picky on Scrapy, she's been in a rubermaid container this afternoon, I know I can't leave her in there much longer? what is the best solution to keep her away from Scrapy but still healthy at the same time?

yup, do the '1-1' method.

As long as the water is clean in the rubbermaid, Penelope should be fine.

She's in the original tank water, should I maybe switch her into the newer tank water with lower nitrIte levels?

yeah, that would be good.

How long should I let him stay on the bottom of the tank after I get the levels back to normal before I try something else?

Yup. So as I suspected. You had suffered a PH crash. With new water the PH is 7.6 but the tank before was reading 6.8.
So, what happened?
Well, the process of the 'cycle' - conversion of ammonia through nitrite to nitrate - is essentially an acidifying one. The carbonate (KH) content in the water is what holds the PH steady as this process works. However, under some circumstances the carbonates become exhausted, so there is nothing to hold the PH steady and the tank crashes.
Examples would be things like: too much food and not enough water changes - organic content rockets and the conversion of ammonia uses up all the KH; low KH in the tap water and over time the cycle uses it up; or, as I suspect in your case, the tank is tiny and the bio-load from the fish exceeds what can be accommodated by the body of water they are living in. Too much food and insufficient w/changes will compound the problem.
I think the bottom-sitting fish may have gone down with a bacterial infection due to poor water quality or simply have a had an SB reaction to very high nitrates which would have preceeded the crash. I would not recommend force-feeding him as he is very small and it would be very stressful - also if it is a SwimBadder prob you will only make matters worse. Hopefully someone else will jump in on this issue.
Fuzzy has already covered the salt.
I'll be off the board from today as I'm going on holiday. So good luck and I hope things improve.

I just added the second roudm of salt... and as I look at Scrapy his gills aren't moving at all really, before they opened big when he was breathing. His fins are still moving a bit and he tried to move a little while I watched him but action has decreased help...

How is Scrapy today, CuteCanadian?