My common/comet fry are about 6 weeks old now. There are about 40 of them in a 10 gallon tank with a sponge filter and a Red Sea Nano filter. The tank is not cycled, but getting there-I just put the Nano filter on two days ago and have it stuffed with seeded ceramic cylinders. My params this morning were ph 7.0, ammonia .50, 0 nitrites and 5 nitrates. I did a 50% water change to lower the ammonia right away, and I am using Prime as a water conditioner. They eat baby brine shrimp and soaked Hikari First Bites. I definitely have a wide range of sizes, some of the fish are teeny-tiny and some are bigger. Some still look like two black eyes with a tail!

So, now I have a few questions about fry sicknesses as I have lost a few and have some with weird symptoms. I want to note right off that most of the fry that have had these issues or died were the larger, more developed ones.

1. I had three fry that were having trouble swimming, spinning in circles and unable to stay upright. After looking at them closely I noticed that there appeared to be some white cottony looking stuff either coming out of one gill or right near the pectoral fin, but only on one side. All three ended up dying or I culled them. I am pretty sure none of them had the problem since birth, it was somethignt hat developed. Is this an actual fungus or something else? Is there anything I can do to prevent the others from getting it (other than immediate removal of the affected fish)?

2. Are the fry's gills supposed to look reddish-pink? I am thinking that what I am seeing are the insides of the gills because the gill plates are still transparent, and that it is probably totally normal, but I wanted to check.

3. Some of the fish seem to have problems with their mouths. One I have noticed has had the problem since it was big wenough to see, but it seems like several have recently developed mouth problems. What it looks like is that the lower jaw is extended and they cannot close their mouths all of the way, although it is hard to tell since they are still so small. Other than that the fish seem fine, including being able to eat well. I also wondered if it could possibly be that they are getting the dreaded "fluff" from the bottom of the tank stuck in their mouths somehow. I try and stay on top of it, turkey bastering several times a day, but there is still fluff on the bottom. Hopefully the addition of the filter will help some. Any ideas what this mouth problem might be? I don't think most of them were born with it, and I know for sure one fry that has it now did not have it a few days ago. One of the fish with the mouth problem seems to be breathing hard too, his gills move in and out a lot.

Thanks for any answers or suggestions.

The brine shrimp that you are feeding - are they the little cubes that you pop out of the blister pack, or are they fresh that you hatch, or are they the ones that come in the big block that you break chunks from and thaw?

I have found that even the "best" brands of brine shrimp that come in the block chunks seem to have a fair amount of "extra" material in them. I even threw out about $10 worth of one block - I will never buy that again. There were a fair number of small white things that looked to be bird feathers, almost. The fry would get them stuck in their mouths and gills and die. I tried removing it from the mouths of the largest fry - and succeeded in a few cases, but lost a fair number to this. Check your food for foriegn inclusions.

I also have found that there are certain "die off" periods in a fry's life. These happen at about 5-6 weeks of age, and again a little older and yet again at yet an older stage. I panicked when the fry started dying in my first batch. I treated, I ran around talking to every breeder I could, and came to the conclusion that these are the plateaus that most fry get to. At those stages, the ones that have one problem or another, the fry's problems catch up with them and cause fatalities. It is often the biggest "hogs" of the batch. Many times it seems that the body outgrows the fry's ability to feed or swim or whatever. Many breeders have confirmed this hypothosis.

I do not know in common/comet crosses, but in my ryukin babies, many are made with too short a distance between the body and the tail. They do fine until they get bigger, and then, when the body is quite chunky and fine, they become unable to swim properly and, when distrurbed or excited, swim in a spinning motion. This is a genetic flaw - and cannot be cured. Those fry are usually ones I cull. Keep in mind that strong currents and other factors may come into play - study the fry for a bit before culling.

Sometimes fry that are damaged or sick in one way or another will also spin. I have never been able to save a spinner.

Mouth deformities are said to be a very common genetic flaw in many fry. It may be that this is what you are seeing in some of the mouths.

A fry's gills can be, and in many cases, should be a meaty red. That is normal.

Your fry should be large enough that you can wipe down the tank's bottom with a glass cleaner sponge and vacumn it well. REmove all the "fluff" that you have - so they cannot get it stuck in their mouths. The filter will help, but you will probably still need to vacumn daily. I have a vacumn that is about 1 inch in diameter with a hose about 3/8 inch. It works very well for vacumning fry tanks. Wipe the bottom. Let it all settle for about 10 minutes and then vacumn up the mess so you have a shiney clean bottom. I have found that in crowded tanks, if you hold the vacumn tube down at the bottom, you can wiggle your fingers as you move it - and the fry will stay away. You can also use your fingers to loosen any bottom "stuff" that does not come up easily.

As usual, you have provided me with excellent advice and information, thank you SO MUCH!

It is definitely my larger fry that are having the swimming issues, and you are probably correct that it is just some genetic thing that didn;t show up until they got larger.

The bbs I am feeding IS the frozen kind in cubes...Hikari frozen baby brine shrimp. I suspected the bbs at first with the fluff on the bottom of the tank, so I just fed the First Bites for awhile, but the fluff on the tank bottom stayed about the same, maybe a little less. However, the stuff stuck in their gills thing does seem to correlate with the time I started feeding the bbs again, so I think I will cut that out and either hatch my own or just do the Hikari first bites.

Are the Hikari First Bites still an ok diet for them? Some of them are still teeny enough that I am not sure they could eat regular crushed up adult pellets, but I want to make sure their diet is sufficient. Anything else I should add in? I could try making some gel food if that would be a good idea?

I do always watch the fry for a long time before culling. There was one I was about to take out, and when I decided to wait it ended up being ok. But I don't think any of the spinners have ever become better. I am just noticing the mouth thing on most of the fish, which makes me think it might be the fluff problem rather than genetic, although there is at least 2 fish that have always had strange mouths, and I am sure theirs are genetic.

I still have like 40 fry, I actually counted them. I thought I only had 50 at the beginning, but it was probably more like 80-90. And I will be happy if 2 or 4 make it to adulthood.

Thanks again for the great advice and info! This is a great learning experience.

Hikari first bites, smashed pellets, crumbled spiriliana flakes, seafood flakes, gel food are all excellent food for the fry. If you are feeding a flake food that will float, crumple it, then grab a hunk of the crumples and shove it below the surface of the water before you let go. All the flakes will sink immediately. The fry seem to learn from each other - particularly about the gel food. I had one tank that did not seem to want the gel food. I put a sibling in that tank - one that did appreciate the food, and within an hour, I had a feeding frenzy. So give them a few rounds of the food before you give up on it - they can get picky tastes at times.

I just fill a baggie with Progold, place it on the cutting board and hit it with the kitchen mallet. When they were littler, I hit it more, older - less. The pellets will soften within moments after being submerged - allowing even the smallest fry to nibble and eat. Do not worry - they are eating machines!

If I have a dozen or more good ones from 1000, I am happy on the Ryukins. I have been told they are far far far more difficult to get good conformation, though. I have a fair number of pretty good Phoenix and Lionhead from each spawning. It is all a matter of the parent's genetics, I suppose.

Thanks again. I have not yet been able to afford Progold, but I have Omega one pellets and flakes that I can crush up, plus spirulina and krill. I may try some gel food as well.

What is a glass cleaner sponge? Is that like different than a regular sponge you wipe the counter with? I have always been afriad to use sponges in my tank since I think some of them have cleaners or anti-microbials in them. I know I could get a "real" sponge, if I can find one. But this is based on nothing but my own thoughts, i will have to take a look next time I go into a grocery store.

I am working away on the fluff and it is better. I made a vaccuum with a broken off check valve (someone in Tip of the Month thought of it!) The filter won't do much, I mostly added it to try and circulate good bacteria since I crammed a bunch of seeded ceramic cylinders in it. It really only drips a tiny bit of water, plus the intake holes are big so I have it covered with a stocking, so it isn't doing much of anything. I just want it to help cycle the tank, then I can add a larger filter when they are a bit bigger.

Other than trying to suck it off with a turkey baster, is there anything I can do to easily get fluff off the sponge filter?

Thanks again for everything, when these fry get named there will definitely be a Carol AND a Daryl.

For your filter, since you have covered the intake grate with a stocking leg, what about setting it going full blast? That should help move a whole lot more water through it and help out on the cycle. Your fry should be up to that. The ones that are not are probably spinners and will not make it anyway. Cycle and clean water are VERY important. Your fry are going to continually grow into their tank, constantly challenging the cycle and volume as they grow. You need to "grow" with them....

To clean the filter sponge, I simply shut the bubbler off, take the sponge out of the tank and squeeze it again and again in used fish water. You will be amazed at how much more water will go through it if you do this every few days. All those left over brine shrimp and fry poopies clog them rather quickly.

A tank sponge or glass sponge is a type of sponge that is typically sold in a pet store for the express use of cleaning your tank. There are ones that are soft enough for cleaning acrylic tank sides and ones that are for glass. Even though I have no acrylic tanks, I simply use the ones for the acrylic on glass. They clean well. I also, mostly, use other things. I buy filter media in bulk for my cannister filters. This is a mashed fiber that holds together in a pad I can cut to fit the filter. When I cut them, I am left with about 2 - 3 inches of fiber material that is not used. I cut this into rectangles and use it as a tank cleaner pad. It works well. (If you purchase ready made ones from PetSmart, remember, you can print a sheet stating the online price and they will honor it in the store.) If you do not have a filter piece or a pad, a balled up piece of clean panty hose will do the job quite well. It is cheap - and a good recyling choice. I turn in the ends and roll it into a ball and use that to scrub the tank bottoms and sides. It will do a bang up job for you - and is easy to clean. You are wise to not use kitchen sponges - you never know what they have in them! (even new ones).

Any of the foods that you have are going to be fine for the fry. You can smash up just about anything and they will be happy to gorge themselves on it!

Thanks again, although I will admit to not really looking forward to squeezing out the songe filter, lol! I am still kind of squeamish about that stuff. But I have overcome a lot of squeamishness with my fish, so this'll just be one more thing! I may have some rubber gloves around though (powder free).

Sadly, I think I DO Have the Nano filter on full blast, it is pretty weak anyway. Unless I can get the old Emperor 280 I have working I am going to have to purchase a filter for the fry tank this week anyway. I was kind of thinking about a Whisper in-tank 20...I have two of those in the 20 gallon my telescopes are in and I hated them at first because they take up tank space, but after seeing how well they work through massive algae and everything I am actually quite impressed. I may have to cover the intakes for awhile but at least it would be filtering some. There is room to shove a lot of stuff in there too. Any other good recommendations if I have to buy one, thinking cheaper is better in my circumstances?

I will probably just use pantyhose to clean the bottom of the tank, I have plenty of it lying around! I did not know they had special sponges for aquariums, which is odd since I am always looking at everything in the fish aisles.

The good news is that I have only lost one fry in the last two days!

Thanks again for the great advice!

I agree about the Whisper in-tank filters. I was skeptical for the price and of course hate the fact that they do take up precious water space. But they are troopers! They are quiet and filter well and are easy to jam full of media. I rather like the two I have. I have two smaller ones for back-ups and for switching around to uncycled tanks/rubbermaids. They add some nice extra GPH in my regular tanks - and you can't beat the price!