Hi, its newbie girl again

im trying to cycle my tank properly but i dunno what im doing!
My fishies are ok-ish,
i got them a bigger tank from a friend, its 40 litres (1 black moor, 2 orandas 1 minnow)
its not as big as it SHOULD be, but ive gone from 10 litre, to 20 litre to 40 litre in a couple months, Im saving up!

So, ive got the water conditioned, i leave a bucket out in the sun all day (becoz its freezing from the tap) and add de chloriantor stress coat,
and i take out about a quarter of the tanks water and replace it with the new water every 2 days...

then a fish out any poop or whatever..

then after like 2 weeks i gotta clean the whole tank becoz it gets cloudy no matter what
so i do, i clean the stones and everything, and thats breaking the cycle rite?? but how do i get the water nice and clear?

hmm... i havent been testing the nitrite nd nitrate and ph levels... dont give out! the test kits are 25 euros and i had to replace the filter........ which was 35 euros already

The fish are ok though really, but i know it wont last, they seem active and kinda playful and havent been gulping for air or anything. I do use those oxigenating tablets though every few days just in case...

So, pleeeease tell me what im doin wrong cuz i do love dem little fishies
i know once i get it right i'll keep it up.

yeah i think i just dont get it.. about the cycling thing.

Hey there!

Don't give up, the cycling thing is tough and takes time. I remember going through my first cycle too.

Without testing equipment though you will never know when your tank is cycled. If you cannot buy your own testing stuff yet, you can often take a sample of your water into the pet shop and ask them to test it for you. Have them write down the readings, not just whether it is ok or not. You want to know ph, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. When your tank is cycled the ammonia and nitrites shoulc be 0 and the nitrates 10-20.

A few things to help...you do not need to let the water sit out if you are using a dechlorinator like Stress Coat. You do want the temperature to match, but you can do that by feeling the water in the tank with your finger, then matching that with the tap water (add in some warm water if needed). That will save you time and then you don't have to worry about anything getting in the bucket while it sits out. When you run out of Stress Coat, or before if you can afford it, try to get some Prime or Amquel Plus water conditioner. They cost a bit more but are very concentrated and will last much longer, so saves money in the long run. They get your water ready for the fish but also help detoxify ammonia, nitrites and nitrates, which is especially helpful in a cycling or overstocked tank.

I would not use the oxygen tablets anymore, they are probably not doing much and your money would be better spent elsewhere. If your filter hits the water and makes it move that should be plenty of oxygen. Does your tank have a small opening at the top or a large one? If it is a tank rather than a bowl-like container you should be ok. If you have a small opening at the top (meaning less surface area), then you might want to get an air pump and air stone/bubble wall. They are usually not too expensive.

You are correct that you probably do not want to wash the stones in the tank, only clean the poo and uneaten food out from between them. Also, do not clean your filter at all since that is where most of the good bacteria for cycling grows. Try to mess with your filter as little as possible while cycling, if it gets really unky then you can use some dirty tank water to swirl it around in and get some of the gunk out. Never wash anything in the filter with chlorinated tap water as it will kill all of your good bacteria and destroy your cycle. Almost all of the good bacteria you need for a cycle is in your filter, so keep it wet and do not wash it unless absolutely necessary and then with old tankl water.

Cloudy water does not necessarily mean your readings are off, but it can be a clue. If could get the water tested at the pet shop a few times that would be great. If they charge for the service tell them your situation and maybe they will help you out....it is hard to cycle when you don't knwo your readings. Some days you should maybe do more than 25% changes, but without knowing it is tough. I would up the water changes to 50% of the water, vaccuuming the water/siphoning poo/uneaten food every other day at least, since things could get toxic really fast. You never need to clean your whole tank out unless you get some horrible parasite.

Hope that helps...I always talk too much. Let me know if you have ?'s and good luck!

Oops, I wrote all that and then realized how small the tank is. With four fish in a 20 liter (5 gallons) you may never cycle since the waste overload is so high...even if you can get a Rubbermaid type (not sure if they have that brand in Europe) plastic storage container and put your filter on it, that would be much better. Try and get a Rubbermaid type plastic bin that can hold them and is at least 100 litres (more would be better), use your filter on that (but don't clean it first). If you cannot get a larger container it may be better to give away two or three of the fish and try with just one at first. I know it is hard, I had to do it once before too, but if you love them you want to give them the best life possible. Maybe you have a friend that can take them and has a larger tank? Sometimes the pet shop will take them back too, although usually not give you a refund.

You are right that they will not be ok for long in those conditions. Until you work something out, try and change 80% of the water everyday, 25% every other day will not be enough for that amount of fish. i know it is a lot of work, and you have to spend some money to get it all going, but it is worth it. I started with a very overstocked tank too, and now I have four tanks, including baby goldfish my big guys had! Good luck, I hope you can work something out!

Here are examples of the plastic bins I am referring to, but you don't really need the lid. They do not have to be clear bins, the fish do not have to see out. If you have one at home already you can use it as long as it has never had any chemicals/cleaning fluids in it. Wash it very well with hot water, but no cleaners as they can be toxic to the fish. http://www.rubbermaid.com/rubbermaid/produ...Id=HPProd150025
http://www.sterilite.com/ProductDetail.htm...Section=Storage

Hey there, thanks for the advice, im gonna print ot out and keep it by my tank. i dont think my fishies will stay alive much longer, they are gettin really lazy and unresponsive. even though i have been fishing out theyre poop and regularly changing a few litres of water. i have an airstone but i stopped usin it because the filter was puttin bubble in the water. but im gonna put it back n now see how it goes.. But anyway i asked my dad for some help and he's gonna help fund a new tank! (hes just happy im not asking for a pony)
So when it come im gonna set it up properly so before i put my fish in and start it with a good cycle!

While you're waiting for a new tank - just go out Homebase or some other DIY store and get yourself a couple of those clear plastic storage crates. That will do until you get the new tank.

Your fish will definitely die the way you have things now - you need 40 litres per goldfish and you have 3 GF + a minnow all in there. The waste load from all the fish will be high and as you don't have a proper water test kit you just can't know what's happening with the water chem.

Don't change 'a few litres for now' - change the whole lot! A few litres is not going to clear the toxic levels. You won't be able to keep on top of toxicity and cycle this tank anyway, so just concentrate on changing the water daily.

Don't worry about it being cloudy - that is not a problem but a high ammonia/nitrite is.

Your fish needn't die if you just give them some temporary space and start changing their water.