I have fry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There are three or four that are free swimming already! I thought it took like 6 days! Crap and I had not moved them yet, so I am scared to but I am working on it leaving the container they are in, and lowering it slowly. I know I am not supposed to move them but they can't live in Tupperware right? And I have not found shrimp eggs yet....what the heck am I supposed to do??????

Durn, durn, durn i am so stupid and unprepared!

Ok, so now they are in a 10 gallon tank with 5 inches of water and a very slow air bubbler. There are about 8-10 fry that I can see now...I actually saw one hatch out of it's egg!

I left the Tupperware bowl in the tank since they seem to be able to stick to the side of it and I don't have any good silk plants. But they definitely swim around!

Sadly, Craig saw one in the main tank but even though we shut the filters off right away we could not find it afterwards.

But two problems...I still have not found any brine shrimp eggs to hatch bbs with...can I get them at a big pet store chain like Petsmart?

Second problem, there are a few fuzzy white eggs stuck in the filter intake (that is what the eggs were stuck to initially-it is not attached to a filter) but I cannot get them off without disturbing all the fry. Do you think it is ok to leave them there until they fall off then suction them out?

Daryl told me to hurry with the bbs and I couldn't find them right away and also I did not think they would be swimming around in only 3 days!

Sorry, i am just a little excited AND way nervous.

So here is what the setup looks like...a filter intake screen, in a Tupperware bowl, in a 10 gallon tank. Sponge filter will be added tomorrow.



And you really can't see them but the two little black lines in the front middle and off to the left are fry stuck to the bowl



Let me know if you have any ideas...i am worried about the few fuzzy eggs onthe intake, but I cannot get them off without crushing the fry hanging underneath. A few white fuzzies have fallen off them I suctioned them out, is it safe to wait?

You should be able to get the eggs at Petsmart - I think I have seen them there. Also, if you can't find those, I think you can use hard boiled egg yolk or hikari first bites/liquidfry if you find either of those. All of them should be in the fish food aisle, even the brine shrimp eggs. Good luck!

Thanks! :-) Also, I wonder if I could scrape green algae from my 20 gallon and put it in the 10 gallon with the fry? Would something like that work? I certainly have tons in there.

That would be nice for them to munch on. Here's a list of fry foods: http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...?showtopic=8258

How warm is your water? If it is really warm, that could be why they hatched early. Warmer temps boost metabolism, so they would be developing quicker. Looks like you are doing well!

Actually the water was just room temp, about 72. I didn't have a heater small enough to work in that Tupperware bowl. They are mostly stuck to the side of the bowl and the filter screen but two have ventured out into the tank, one stuck to the wall and one of the floor.

Woo-Hoo!! Congrats Jen!!
My fry all hatched alot faster than what I thought too.I'm pretty sure that my warmer temps did have alot to do with that.
I was buying those 3 pks of San Francisco Bay Brand Brine Shrimp Hatch Mix The warmer it's kept,the faster they hatch,and you'll need an air stone to use with it.
(it comes allready to go with salt in it) and can be found at most Pet Smarts.You can also look into baby frozen brine shrimp until you get some real live shrimp going ,or even the Hikari first Bites is another good one to keep in the house. boiled egg yolk is good too Jen,but realize that something like that can really mess your tank up.
The biggest thing that I realized with the fry though was clean water and exactly how water was added to the fry.The slightest rush of water can break their tiny little backs and fins,so you'll want to do water changes with something like air-line tubing.
My goodness woman,if anything's for sure,it's the fact that we've had a ton of fry stories,so start reading(bet ya allready did)
Good luck and keep us posted!
Algae's good too BTW.

Thanks Devs!

Sadly, in the midst of new life, my betta, Chauncey Huffcat has passed away. Old age I think, although I have only had him a year.

So I guess my other question is what to do about the fuzzy eggs still stuck in there...to move them I risk crushing the live fry. Some fell off and I suctioned them out, is it safe to wait until they fall off?

i have been reading tons of posts, it is definitely breeding season!

OK...I read that methylene blue can help with the fungusy eggs. Would that work in my situation? I just don't think I can get the fuzzy eggs out of the filter screen without crushing the live fry under and behind it.

Can I get something like that at Petsmart and will it hurt the fish?

I have about 20 live ones for the moment, we will see if any of them make it through the night, I am very skeptical. I feel terrible that i have seen some live ones in the main tank, but I tried fishing them out with a cup and I just can't, they are too small and it is too hard. What blew me away though was 1 day old fry swimming AWAY from the filter current! Strong little buggers.

Have you got a turkey blaster Jen? Invaluable with fry. You can suck up the fuzzy eggs with it. I got a syringe thingy that did the job too .Useful later for cleaning up leftover food. Congrats on the hatching.
I bought frozen brine shrimp in cubes btw.

Frozen Baby brine shrimp are a fine substitute for live hatched brine shrimp. Since you have so few fry, you will not break the bank feeding them these for the first week or two of life - when they can go on to Daphnia and crushed adult food.

Do not worry about the fuzzy white eggs. They will harm nothing. In the future, if you have eggs, I suggest you add a bit of Methelene blue or straight Acriflavine to the water that the maturing eggs are in. This will keep the fungus from getting out of control. Some eggs that are not fertile will still get a bit fuzzy, but they will not transfer any fungus to unhatched eggs this way. It is too late to worry about it now.

When the fry are about 1 week old (free swimming) you will want to change out the water. At that time, you can remove the intake cover and the fungusy eggs without damaging or injuring any eggs/fry. I try not to disturb my new fry for at least a week - that is why it is so important to start with as fresh a water as possible in the begining. It is easy to change water when there are eggs that are stuck firmly to something. It is another thing altogether when you have delicate little fry.

Your eggs will hatch in about 3 days at 72-74F. Do not try to hatch them warmer - they will not develop properly in too short of a time. Ideal temps are considered 65-68 for commons, 68-70 for standard fancies, 70-72 for longfinned and delicate fancies. Most breeders seem to agree that the average temps of 70F are best for the most breeds - they hatch in about 4 days. This is short enough time that fertile eggs do not succumb to fungus and long enough time that the fry fully develop.

Sharon is sooooooo right - water changes will do in so many of your fry - messing up fins and backs - if you are not VERY careful. Place your waste bucket at almost the same height as your tank. That way, you will get the minimum suction on the tube. I use a very small syphon tube (3/4 inch diameter) with a 1/4 inch hose. The large tube at the front will also weaken the suction of the syphon. I have found that if you stick your hand allllll the way done to the bottom of the tube. Grab the tube with two finger and waggle your fingers around it as you move it slowly over the bottom of the tank. The waggling will make the fry swim away from the syphon tube - so you do not suck them up. Place the syphon outlet tube across the bottom of your waste bucket - so if you do syphon out a fry by accident, they do not fall into the waste water, but are swished gently out into the water. Examine your water carefully when you are done - and pull any fry you may have accidentally syphoned back out with a spoon or cup.

When you return fresh water to the tank, I have found that the best way is to "set" a cup of fresh water on the surface of the tank and turn it in, and pull the cup out from under the fresh water. That way there is no water poured into the tank - no current, etc. Make sure the water is the same in temp and everything but waste as the water in the tank.

I am sorry about Chauncey Huffcat.

Thanks again Daryl and Trinket,

I do have a turkey baster to get crud out, but even that so close to all the fry stuck in that bowl would be too dangerous I think. Since Daryl thinks it is ok now I will leave the fuzzy eggs alone.

I now have about 25 fry that i can see although there is probably more hanging off the back and inside of the filter intake screen. Every once and awhile they swim up to the surface or move somewhere. Most are stuck to the inside of the Tupperware bowl but there are a few out in the tank too.

I have seen a few more in the main tank, but I just can't catch them-if they survive to be a little bigger maybe I can, but that is unlikely with the pig-monsters constantly scrounging for food :-(

I will get some frozen baby brine shrimp today, I think that may be easiest since I don't have many fry and will be lucky if any of them make it to eating stage. I will pick up some Hikari first bites too.

Is there any way to help the cycle along? Could I shove a few seeded ceramic cylinders in the middle of the sponge filter or would that not be enough to make a difference?

Thanks again everyone, I was just a little excited last night!

YOu can drop a bag of seeded cylindars to the bottom of the tank. Or set them under the sponge so that the water flows over them to the sponge. I am kinda scared to stick anything into the sponge filter - the flow is soooo slow with only the air bubbles driving it, but fry still have a way of getting themselves stuck into the nastiest places and dying. I do not even like having the sponge touch the side of the tank - the fry seem to get stuck between the sponge and the glass and die. I have had to release soooo many stuck fry that way - and many that I do not find in time. If you manage to make any "cracks" or openings in the sponge, a fry will find a way of jamming themselves into it.

Frozen baby brine shrimp are really great - when you do not have to use 6 cubes 5 times a day! They are a bit expensive, but chok full of vitamins and good protien for growing fry. I love 'em. Do not get the "Brine Shrimp" - get the "Baby Brine Shrimp". The Brine ones are too big for fry under about 3 weeks of age to eat.

I have a small set of fry that I call my "immaculate fry". They were conceived with the milt laden water as I lifted the female out of a tank. They were hatched (unknown to me at the time) in the bottom of a bare bottom tank with two monster females in the same tank. No plants, no gravel, no nothing but water and fish and a 400gph filter running full blast. Over 12 made it fine. When I was emptying the tank to transfer the female fish to another tank, I spotted them - just barely past the free swimming stage. I had not fed them, either - so they had to have been nibbling adult food - no algae there either! I sucked them up with a turkey baster and dropped them in with some other fry of the same age. They are growing strong and beautiful. They were NOT eaten. I do not know why - but they were not. Perhaps the adults were too big to bother with such little things, I do not know. (Theye ate 1/2 inch cubes of gel food in a bite - and about 6 of them in a meal!) So all is not lost - if you can spot a fry - suck it up in the baster and go for it! You may find more! (Particularly if you have plants, gravel, etc. in the tank. You would be suprised how well those little guys hide! That is how they survive!)

EVery time I think I have about 100 fry, I get about 500. There always seem to be more than you think when they become free swimming and you can acutally see them all at once! I bet you have a nice selection there.

Congrats Jen! Raising fry takes a lot of work and patience but it is well worth it! Looking forward to more pics as they grow.

Congrats on your new babies. Have fun and hope all goes well.

OK, I got frozen baby brine shrimp and some Hikari first bites for later (oops...it is Hikari Tropical First Bites...is that ok? It says good for all newborn fish). Thanks for the good advice...so far I can see about 30 fry but they may be more in or behind the filter intake screen. Some of the fry are swimming around a little but most are still hanging on the sides of the tank/bowl...do I want to wait until they are all free swimming to start feeding them? I think they still have tiny egg sacs but i am not totally sure. Also, would it be a good idea to scrape green algae from my 20 gallon and put it in there?

I also got a sponge filter to set up, but it is HUGE, the only one I could find-it says it can be used for ponds and up to 125 gallon tanks! It is a little bigger than my hand and 3-4 inches thick...should I cut it down somehow? I am worried that will wreck it. I only have like 5-6 inches of water in the tank and this thing is gigantic. It does say it is made especially not to trap baby fish though and mentions that it is good for breeding.

Here are pics:





Thanks for all of the great advice, and if I see anymore fry swimming in the main tank I will use the turkey baster and try and get them out...can't believe I didn't think of that, lol!

OK, and besides my questions in the post above...here is a very blurry pic:

Oops my mistake. I meant to write frozen baby brine. Anyway daryl has cleared that up -thanks. Also the tropical hikari is exactly what I fed mine after the first week along with the baby brine (feed it very lightly...soaked in tank water and then injected to the bottom with the blaster).
You can try feeding a teeny amount to the free swimming ones. They may bite. May not. Mine were slow and then suddenly wwwoooooo!

Thanks Trinket!

Any size sponge should work well. That one does not look too big. I have ones that are 4 or 6 inches in diameter - they are cylindars. The sponge filter should have a center area that allows an air bubbler to fit - and the air bubbles will travel up inside the sponge and out the top. This action will gently pull water through the sponge and up the tube with the bubbles as they rise. The action of pulling water gently through the sponge will pull the ammonia/nitrites through the sponge - the platform for the beneficial bacteria. As your fry get bigger and you feed more and more food that is not "live" (frozen baby brine shrimp are equal to "live" in waste and nutrition values), you will get more and more waste that will need to be processed by that sponge.

HAving a large one will allow it to slowly build the community of beneficial bacteria - it colony will grow as the fry grow - processing more and more waste as they produce it. Watch the water quality carefully, though. The fry have a way of outgrowing a sponge quickly - before it can catch up.

You will find that as the fry grow you will need more and more biological filtration to handle their waste. I have small water pumps that fit into the tops of the sponge filter. These I run with a hose to a HOB filter box - no intake used. The water pump will pull the water through the seasoned sponge and pass it through the filter box. I have invented an outflow reducer that prevents waterfall force into the tank - and you can up your gph to about 160gph per pump. I use 2 sponge stacks and 2 pumps feeding an Emperor 400 box on the back of a 30 or 40 gal tank. This keeps they fry well until about 8 weeks of age, for me. I reduce fry numbers then - do about 50-80 fry per 30-40 gallons of water.

So start that sponge going. If you can, place it in the center-ish of the tank to prevent any fry from getting stuck between the sponge and the tank glass. It will work splendidly.

Thanks SO MUCH daryl. :-)

The sponge filter was a complete disaster. I probably doomed all the fish setting up...which is why I should've done it in the first place like daryl said. :-(

Does the stem that comes out hte top have to be underwater for the filter to work, or does that matter? I will have to saw it off if so since it sticks up like 7" and my water is only 5" deep. Also, I tried my best but it took forever to get it sit on the bottom of the tank and to make matters worse, even though I washed it a lot, there are pieces of sponge floating in the fry water.

The stress, added debris and everything is probably not going to be good...but I have no one but myself to blame. Darn, darn, darn.

Well, let me know if that stem has to be underwater or not, so I can at least try and get it working if it needs to be under.

Here is a pic of my disaster (see above post) with bad paint skills to boot...does that stem need to be underwater?

OK, I was stressing hardcore last night if you didn't notice, but all is well now. Sponge filter is up and going with help from daryl and Jen W. I have at least 30 live fry right now and they are starting to swim around a bit and have had their first bbs meal, although I don't think they ate much.

Thanks for listening!

And the latest blurry pic;

Latest update (I am sure this is boring everyone to death):

The fry are now swimming around quite a bit and I fed them today, a bit of frozen bbs. I am afraid no matter how small an amount I give though it is too much. I just hope the water quality will be ok for a few more days until they are strong enough for a change. But it is really cool to see them dart around and eat!

I removed the bowl and filter intake screen that had been in the tank, which was where the eggs were stuck to initially. There were three dead fry in the bottom of the bowl, one very deformed looking. Not too bad I guess for only having 30 or so? I actually can try and count them now that the bowl is out of there, although unfortunately they are able to hide under the edge of the sponge filter a little.

Thanks for listening!

How exciting! Good luck with them. And "No", its not boring, I for one really enjoy the fry threads. I get to see the babies from fry to nice plump fish, without all the work!

Aw, thanks for making me feel better!

Today more of them are swimming around and being very active. I have fed them a bit, but I am just not sure how much they need. It's Hakari frozen baby brine shrimp. I have just been taking a tiny corner off of a cube, mixing it with tank water and putting it in. I definitely saw some of them eating it yesterday, but will they eat it once it is on the floor of the tank? It seems like there are bits still onthe tank bottom, but I am not sure. I just don't want to dirty the tank more than necessary, but I also do not want them to starve to death! It seems I have read to feed them at least 3 times a day, but I am not positive that they are all eating yet. It looks like some of them have white in their bellies...is that the bbs or just part of their anatomy?

A million questions....thanks everyone!

For 30 fry , you may need about 1/4 of a cube once a day - divided into feedings. After about 3-4 days, that amount will double.

The fry will eat it off the bottom. They are very good at finding food.

When they have bellies full of shrimp their bellies will bulge. Live brine shrimp makes their tummies look almost flourecent orange - frozen does not quite have the same color effect...... I am not sure but the "whiteness" may be because the belly is stretched over food....

The little waste on the bottom may be waste from the fish. When they are really really tiny, they make little dots of poo - it looks like dust almost on the bottom. There is more waste when not feeding live - but very little.....

Thanks again d, it may be poo on the bottom of the tank. I wanted to do bbs live but we are moving next Thursday and I couldn't find the stuff I needed right away (although I have now) to get it going fast enough. Since I don't have that many I think i will be ok with the frozen, although I know the live is better.

So I want to change 25% of the water 7 days after they hatched, is that correct? I have great instructions to try and keep the fry safe. I am concerned about my ph problem, although maybe it will be ok for now since they are still little. I have 0 kh water so my ph crashes in my 55 gallon if I don't have crushed coral in the filters. But my 20 gallon and my betta tank were always ok, so hopefully the fry tank will be alright for awhile. One good thing about moving is that *maybe* there will be some buffer in my new tap water!

Jen the white you are seeing is the belly developing. I kept a fry diary and observed it too. It is the first stage of the belly and grows when its fed and arrives about day 2. The next stage you'll see a second silver/white bubble beside it inside the body. Then they merge.

The food they will go on eating very slowly for about 2 hours -it takes ages for them to find and eat the food and there is always the danger that fry will starve very quickly without regular feeding so give them a few hours before cleaning up. You should vacuum up the leftovers with the blaster. If you always put the food in the same place after a while they will eventually learn to go to that place when they are hungry and get use to feeding there.

About the pH. I also have 0 kH and cannot keep fish without a huge amount of crushed coral. I was very worried about it with my fry (my fy are now 5 weeks old )..and I added a bag of coral in a hose in to the fry tank and also some inside my filter - I wrapped it all in hose. Don't put the coral loose as cleaning will be imposs. but if you can fit some coral in somewhere -do- they need a stable pH!

I started water changes on day 7 too. I did 15/20% changes daily (after tank bottom vacuuming with the blaster) till week 2 and then increased when the poop started to get larger and more.

That is sooooo cool, Imogen!!!! I did not know that about their bellies!!!! I cannot see that well, so I have only observed the fry under the microscope up and until they hatch. Then I put them back in the tank and watch with my weak eyes!!!!

So - is the bubble that merges - is that the air bladder that has filled and they grow together?

(I do not mean to hijack your post - but I LOVE info - I am an info junkie!)

I do not change any specific amount of water in the fry tanks - I let the tests tell me what I need to do. I test every day for the little guys. Sometimes the fry grow sooooo fast that they outshoot the sponge filter's ability to clean the water - and you hae to change a fair amount of water and add Prime to keep it clean. Sometimes, on live food feeding days, there is little waste and I only have to clean out the poos.

It is really hard to see those teeny tummies for sure! I have a 12X zoom camera and a 4x magnifying glass that came in handy I don't know why they turn white first but that tiny air sac soon develops into 2 parts and then they join and after that you can clearly see the pink babybrine in what is now their stomachs.

About this time you can also see the eye dot change to 2 tone-the silver circle around the black dot and the length of the mouth at the back looks like a hinge on either side.

In the first few days after free swimming, I noticed in the morning all the fry looked so small again- after the last night feed- half the size and actually set my alarm for 5 am to get them fed before they wasted away!

One tip is to leave the curtain open so the fry can see at night from the moonlight. I was worried they would eat each other or get squished in strange places in the night. I think that helped this time around as I haven't lost so many.

It is totally fascinating watch them grow. Can't wait to watch Jen's little 'uns develop

Wow, thanks Imogen for all the info! I don't have great vision but it definitely looked like their bellies were white! Glad to know that is normal. I too am worried about them starving to death so i am trying to feed 3-4 times a day. It is so cool to see them hunt for food and then try and eat it, even the bbs are a little big sometimes. I wish i was hatching live ones but in the midst of trying to move and do 100 other things it just wasn't in the cards.

After a week should I try some Hikari first bites too?

I will add some coral to their tank and see if that helps the kh as well, so far the ph is stable but you never know.

So far I have only found 4 dead fry, and two were noticably deformed. I think I have 35-40 live ones right now but they are hard to count because they never hold still!

Thanks again for all of the wonderful advice! Maybe I can borrow a digital camera again and take some halfway decent pics that are NOT with a cell phone.

I believe the hikari first bites are actually smaller than the bbs. With my white cloud minnow fry I had to feed the first bites for a little over a week before the fry were big enough to get frozen bbs into their mouths. But the powdered food will mess up your water params more than the bbs will.

SAn Francisco Baby Brine Shrimp strain are the smallest available - and can be eaten by the fry as soon as they are eating. First Bites are a bit bigger - and do not have quite the same amount of protien. Live food (or the frozen live - which is considered VERY close in nutrition if not the same as the live) produces less waste and is more nutricious for the first 7-10 days of feeding for fry. After that, depending on breed/finnage, you may wish to feed more carbohydrates or more protien - depending on the fry.

First Bites are a combination of carbohydrates (green) and protien (brown) pellets. They are very good for fry - but are not the smallest.

Different strains of baby brine shrimp are larger than the San Fran strains....

Brine shrimp are larger - and a fry needs to be at least 10 days old to eat one. Some of my fry could not handle them until 3 weeks - others eat them easily at 10 days feeding age.

I think you can safely try some First Bites at about 7 days of feeding age - or even younger if your fry are doing well. Try it and see if they eat them successfully..... it is good food. You can also pound out the pellets of your regular goldfish food - and, for the first week or so, sift it through a fine sieve. This powder makes a good fry food. As they grow, you sieve it less. Flakes can be crushed and fed. I wet mine in a bowl of tank water so that they sink immediately - I would not feed any floating food.

I actually use the caffee grinder to make a fine "dust" out of my regular food for the fry - works very well. My hubby gave me that idea, he does that with his koi fry, and the food gets very even and small. I used to smash the food with a hammer ( ), but grinder is way better.

We read an interesting tactic from some japanese koi breeder regarding a fry's first meal. They all recommend egg yolk - it seems to expand their "stomachs" better than other fry food. After that, they used the live hatched baby brine, and after 2 weeks they started grinded koi food dust. I use whatever is in the house at the moment, but I found the theory about the egg yolk being the best for a first meal very interesting.

The hikari first bites I have is a powdered food, not little pellets. The pieces are smaller than what I can achieve with grinding flakes/pellets with a mortar and pestle.

Thanks for all of the great feeding advice! Interesting about the egg yolk thing.

Tomorrow is day 7 since they hatched so I think I am going to attempt a water change and vacuum the bottom (carefully with a turkey baster and/or small siphon with bucket at almost same level). I may try the Hikari First Bites a few hours before that so if they are not able to eat it I will get all the uneaten stuff out.

Things would be easier if we were not about to move. We may have to stay with my parents for a few days in between places, whih is fine for everything except moving all the fish. I jokingly told my mom, "You don't mind if all 50 of us come to stay with you do you?" Meaning myself, Craig, my daughter, our two cats, my 6 adult gf, and about 40 gf fry. She laughed and tells everyone that now. We thought about going on an overnight camping trip this weekend, but since the fry cannot go 24 hours without foood...well, we're staying home!

Hope you are all having a nice Memorial Day weekend (well, for the Americans), and everyone outside fo US has a nice regular weekend.

I'm so sorry to hear about Chauncey Huffcat. That is an awesome name.

I am excited however to hear about (and see) your fry!!! Congrats and good luck to you!

Thanks Angel for your condolences and congrats!

OK, more questions, as usual!

1. Why don't my fry have the fat bellies yet? I have seen pics of Daryl's and Trinket's and at 10 days they have nice round bellies...mine are 7 days but no bellies to speak of. Am I not feeding them enough? Or is it partly because I think Daryl and Trinket's fish are fancies and mine are single tails?

2. What kind of coloration can I expect? The parents are the fish in my signature. two females are white, one a common and one a comet, and two males are orange/red, one a common and one a comet. i don't know which one(s) laid eggs/fertilized. When a white and orange/red fish cross do you get a mix or just one or the other? Just curious!

3. Moving with the fry is coming up. With a less than half full ten gallon I was thinking it *might* be safer to move them in the tank than take them all out. I generally would not move a tank with water in it, but in this case I am thinking it may be best, and it is a small tank with little water. We are only moving 10 minutes away.

OK, enough questions for now! Otherwise the fry seem to be doing well, I only lost 3 out of the 40 or so and that was like 4 days ago. They swim around and look for food mainly. I tried to feed them Hikari First Bites and some of htem seemed able to eat it and for some it was too big. So I will maybe feed a small amount of that once a day with the bbs, then just bbs 3 other times.

Here is another blurry, horrible picture. The water is not that cloudy, it is the stuff behind the tank making it look that way.

OK, more questions, as usual! AAAARGH my whole post was erased...I was saying no problem we love questions here!

1. Why don't my fry have the fat bellies yet? I have seen pics of Daryl's and Trinket's and at 10 days they have nice round bellies...mine are 7 days but no bellies to speak of. Am I not feeding them enough? Or is it partly because I think Daryl and Trinket's fish are fancies and mine are single tails?

I think it takes time. The tummies have to get to a certain size before you can clearly see the stretching. Maybe another few days or more. They are growing before they can stretch remember. You may have apoint with the streamline shape of your fish that it may not be noticeable yet. It will come.

2. What kind of coloration can I expect? The parents are the fish in my signature. two females are white, one a common and one a comet, and two males are orange/red, one a common and one a comet. i don't know which one(s) laid eggs/fertilized. When a white and orange/red fish cross do you get a mix or just one or the other? Just curious!

You will be endlessly surprised! Like the parents, grandparents all sorts will apppear! The more fish survive the more variations are possible of course.You will have a few double tails maybe and calicos and mixes of the parent fish but the majority will be the dominant gene, the orange color probably and the single tail and body shape of the parents.

3. Moving with the fry is coming up. With a less than half full ten gallon I was thinking it *might* be safer to move them in the tank than take them all out. I generally would not move a tank with water in it, but in this case I am thinking it may be best, and it is a small tank with little water. We are only moving 10 minutes away.

I didn't know wether to say something about this. I am always so scared to move fry because of my ghastly first time round experience. Not only did I lose some moving them at 2 weeks but also I believe I weakened them. Not only the swirling water of the move but also the stress factor greatly underreported I think for fish helath. If you imagine how tiny those hearts are- literallly pinpricks...so easy to scare and stress

I think personally if there was any way at all you could move the whole tank intact I would do it. Daryl and others may suggest otherwise but moving tiny fry is a very stressful thing for you and them...


The pics are great. The fry look well and active. Good job

I think you're doing much better than you think! I think you have a great point about the body type of your fry. They are definitely much sleeker than orandas. See you're going to be a pro in no time.

Thanks Trinket, sorry you lost your post...I HATE it when that happens! And today i actually can see their little bellies starting to stretch, and more of them are able to eat the First Bites now. I upped the feeding amount a little too.

Thanks for your kind words and well wishes Angel!

Oh, and this morning the fish spawned again! However, these ones are staying in the tank, and later today I will do a large water change. 35-40 fry is plenty for now!

You are doing a really good job, I think you just have "New Fry" jitters! But you are doing great! I love the fry threads! I learn so much from you guys doing it!

Aw, thank you Lola!

They are still doing well today although I injured one doing the water change last night. I was SO careful but I slipped and a big "plop" of water fell :-( So one little fry has gone off to the big fish pond in the sky. But I still have 35-40 of them. Other than that the water change seemed to go fine. I took a pitcher and filled it with temp matched water, added some Prime and let it sit a bit, then swapped it out with a cup, plus used the turkey baster to get crud off the bottom.

Some of them still seem to be too small to eat the Hikari First Bites, so I am feeding bbs 3-4 times a day (so they get 3/4 of a Hikari bbs frozen cube total each day) and then once a day a toothpick full of First Bites. Do you think that is enough? Or maybe too much?

Also, their poo is supposed to be white right? Does it look kind of fluffy? A lot of the debris on the tank bottom is white, fluffy kind of stuff (not like fungus though) and I am not sure if it is poo, leftover bbs or a mixture of both?

I forget if I said already, but the parents spawned again yesterday morning. I let them eat all the eggs this time though, especially since we are moving. One question about that too though...both times they spawned there were some small, round black things on the bottom of the tank, same size as the eggs but black and they look to be pretty solid. Anyone know what they might be? Also, when the fish spewed their eggs it seems like pieces of eggs come out too, there are some white pieces of stuff on the bottom along with the eggs. Just curious if this was normal!

As usual, thanks for all the help! The fry would not be here without you.

Jen I have to laugh. You get an A+ for observation skills !!!! I hope someone will know about the black round things (you don't have any snails or critters in there do you?)I'm racking my brains but can't get that one. As for the half eggs -they were once whole eggs and they have been pecked by the fish but because the bottom is sticky they cant eat all of the egg. I had plenty of those half eaten eggs too.

The poo is not fluffy. It might be mixed with bb leftovers (and yes those bbs can get a little fluffy and paler in the water) and general debris. Do you have the tank covered? I have a large thick, stiff, plastic bag that I throw over to keep dust out. The first poo is very hard to see, just white or brown dots. Then gradually it turns into those tiny, thin brown moon crest shaped poos and then finally into miniature versions of the big long trailers we know so well

I also found that even when the water params were fine I still needed to do tank bottom wiping (with a tiny rolled up piece of stocking- in slow motion,very, very gently) to get rid of the cloudy debris on the bottom. The problem with fry tanks IMO is sponge filtration is not really powerful enough to get all the dust up. What you are seeing I think is just normal dust and debris that you don't get in a well powered/filtered adult fish tank.

Don't worry too much. Small w/cs daily will help a lot with it. And after another few weeks you can add another filter maybe. I added a second filter at around 3 and a half weeks/4 weeks when the fry get noticeably stronger and less likely to be sucked in by the current.

Sorry about the fry you lost but you are doing very well not to have lost even more with so many in there. Amazing. Great job

Looking forward to more pics of common fry!

Yes Anette, I MUST get my ex-husband to lend me his digital camera again! Taking pics with my cell phone just does not cut it.

I lost two more, one was doing that weird spirally swimming thing and looked bent, and the other was gasping at the bottom. But there are still 30+ left I think, although they do not hold still for counting!

I am turkey bastering the crud out of the bottom twice daily and changing out a little water in the process as well. If the ammonia gets to .25 I do a 25% change...hope that is ok? I am using Prime also so that should help a bit too.

It was REALLY hot here today, almost 90 degrees, which is very rare for this time of year, so I was concerned about their temperature, but they seemed fine. I actually felt worse for my telescopes since they are neareer to the window and have a closed tank lid (for my cats), but I made sure they were ok and increased their aeration.

I have a glass lid on the fry tank but it does not cover 100%. My cats are too fat to jump on the counter anymore, so I just have to be careful about not holding anything over the tank that could spill and Craig has been threatened with death if uses spray cleaners in the kitchen.

I am thinking about adding a filter in a few weeks...but will probably have to buy one :-( I could pull a cycled, algae filled Whisper in-tank 90 gph off my 20 gallon (leaving the two fish with 200 gph-still okish), and could pull a stocking over the end to make it safer. I also have an Emperor 280 that sort of halfway works that I could try. Any thoughts? Or an inexpensive one I could buy maybe? I only have a 10 gallon available at the moment, so if they grow a lot I will either have to give them away/cull or talk Craig into another tank. He loves the baby fish but is not super thrilled about a 3rd tank. Adding a fourth or fifth would be a struggle! However, we will se how many of them make it through the move...

Thanks Trinket for the info on the partly eaten eggs, lol, not sure why I didn't think of that! I think you are right about the fluffy stuff just being dust and debris...where I live it gets really dusty. My other two tanks are overfiltered, so I never see that in them. I may try and cover it a little better. I think I know what their poo is now, I see little brown things in the corners of the tank now. Yay, I can recognize poo!!!! I want my breeding medal darn it!

You can kinda see a few here:

YAY! I can see eyes! (The one nearest )

Congrats on seeing the poos- that is a milestone!

Sorry you lost a few. It's inevitable though I know it seems like a lot of fry but there seems to be a die off rate at certain points. We've all found that. I think it's 3 weeks and about a month.. Maybe the birth immunity wears off or they are just weak fry or something...you shouldn't worry about losing the weak ones - it happens. If you read other fry threads it seems the survival rate is often less than half that hatch. The strongest will survive.

You can use a low powered filter covered in hose. I'm doing that. I use two now the fry are bigger and messier and a few small bags of coral and media covered in hose that I rinse off every few days.

Sounds like you are doing fine . Good luck with moving.