hello all,
Have you ever seen albino telescope eyes?

I saw some of them at the LFS yesterday. They are about 2-3 weeks old. The price for each is $5.99

Yes, I used to have a couple (sadly no more) and a lot of people on this board have them. I know one member who has just got fry from one (still waiting to see if it's got the albino trait tho', fingers crossed)

They're amazing looking fish huh?

Lol I saw albino ryukins at the store today or were they lemon ones? l

If they were ryukins they were probably just white, albinos have the pink colouration with red eyes I've only ever seen albinos as tele's, but there could be other breeds out there!

saw an albino comet once. As for an albino ryukin, if it's yellowish or orange-ish, even if it has pink eyes it's technically not an albino, but a leucistic/xanthic specimen.

a tru albino is white with a pinkish cast, combined with red eyes.

My albino was my first goldfish. I've had her for over a year now, and she's a little more than 3 inches long w/o tail. She's also gone completely blind and only has one eye.

^that's an example of the leucistic fish I mentioned. True albinos are devoid of all bodily pigments, even yellow and orange. Thus, they're snowy white with a pinkish shade (much like many of the commonly available redcap orandas... although of course they're not albinos, their caps are red!)

Then I guess I have never seen a true Albino Goldfish! Do they have the red eyes like an Albino Hamster or Rat?

just for clarification:

albinos have red pupils. Red irises don't count. (especially since if the fish has red pigment on the irises, that automatically discounts the fish being a true albino.

the red pupils stems from the fact that since the animal lacks melanin which normally colors the pupil black, what we're seeing are the red interior of the eyeball's retinas.

SnBMeg's fish does have red pupils, and doesn't have red irises I'm wondering whether the fish has just picked up that yellow pigment from being fed pigment rich food? -Maybe if she kept it in a cupboard/darkness and changed it's diet for a couple of months it'd lose the 'suntan'? Just a thought.

I remember reading something on this forum a long time ago about how the albino goldfish tend to get a sort of darker tint along the tops of their bodies. This coloration is actually much more prominent in photos than if you were to see her in person (the pic in my sig is also a bit more accurate as to the uniformity of her coloring.) And the darker area also looks more of a flesh color in person than yellow, almost like the color of the muscles is slightly visible through the scales.

And yep, red pupils, which always get really washed out in photos. (Maybe if I could just get my camera to take a non-blurry pic without the flash. Yargh.)

Maybe I should just scoop her out sometime and get her in some bright lighting where my camera won't screw with the colors; or wait until I move her to her new tank. Here's a photo from last year, when she was in a different tank (different lighting) and I was using a different camera with no flash:


I have also wondered if she would pale out if I put her in complete darkness for a while. Since she can't even distinguish between changes in light and dark anymore, I don't think that it would present the problems that doing such would for a goldfish who could see. I may just try it some day.

-You could, I guess, but then you wouldn't get to see how beautiful she is!

Aren't they called siamese dolls? Albino telescope. I imagine the siamese doll was bred from a rare true albino and mixed with a colored goldfish. The recessive red pupil gene would have then been interbred again and again and eventually the typical pale gold with red eye pupil of the siamese doll would have been created. I have an albino siamese doll much like S& Bs but short tail variety- her color is darker but her pupils are red. As Mads mentioned -she is a Mom now to my fry Wonder if I'll get any albino babies.If you google siamese doll there seem to be many variations, all telescope eye.

Been doing a bit of reading on leucism and albinism, there is a lot of debate in academic circles about what is and isn't albinism/leucism it seems, some people prefer the term incomplete albinism instead of leucism. Both are genetic traits, some people say that in leucism that the eyes should still be pigmented, only in albinism does the eyes have no pigment, but, that's just one persons opinion! -It's really hot on avian discussion boards! Too crazy for me to have much of an opinion! I think as albinism is a more commonly accepted description for the traits seen in siamese dolls, I'm gonna stick to calling it an albino telescope, as there doesn't seem to be a majority rules opinion on the terminology of leucism/albinism. -A lot of boards even call it the "L" word!

Yeah I imagine that it could get very semantic the debate on it all. For me albino telescope works fine too( and is easier to spell for one thing ) It's amazing how many variations there are though in the fish world

white telescopes it is then.

Lol, that'll do for me too!

on an interesting side note:

My two new butterfly-tails definitely aren't albino (one's a tricolor, the other's in my avatar)... Yet surprisingly they both have dark red pupils. It's not a readily apparent thing... view them from afar and you'd think their pupils are normal black. Get down to eye-level with them however and they're definitely reddish unlike my other butterfly-tails. I could only compare it to red metallic foil.

As I understand it, Siamese dolls are different from other albinos. They stay fairly small, and retain a nymph body type (small, slim body and long fins.) There's at least one person on this board who has a doll, and the differences are pretty obvious if you can compare photos of the two types. The dolls are positively dainty, whereas the other telescopes can get just as large and robust as any other fancy--there's also another member here who has one like mine, but older and larger; very pretty.


That's certainly true! Hmm, I wonder what a black light would do?


But then you'll run into situations with telescopes that are white (like, red-cap white), but don't have red pupils. Like the first couple of images here. It really is troublesome, isn't it? I'm glad it's not a huge debate topic in the goldfish community.

^they may not have red pupils, but "white telescopes" still sum them up pretty well

True, but it's a huge generalization, and doesn't differentiate between those fish that are lacking in colored pigments (whites) and those that have no melanin at all (albinos.) It would be like saying "a red and white koi," when there are specific names for the different color patterns. It's fine for people who have little to no interest in what exactly they're actually looking at. But if someone was looking for "albino goldfish" and you pointed them to the pics in the link I posted, it wouldn't be what they were looking for.

It works on a basic level, certainly, but it's very misleading. "White" is not the same as albino, or leucistic. And that generalization would be the same as equating Caucasians with albinos.

...You know, semantics really are a pain.

-I think it would make your fish start taking party drugs and listen to techno music!! !!!

The reason that I thought of it is that the tank she's going to be moving into originally came with a black strip light (and white gravel and similarly black light-appropriate plastic plants.) I probably still have it, too!

Okay, now I've got to try it! Just to see if she'll "glow" and I can get pictures! XD

-Lol! you should get some of those genetically altered zebra danios that are called glofish, they are supposed to actually glow under black light! thatd be way cool!

True, that...

I don't know, I've been on the tropical fish forums long enough to be a bit hesitant about fish with modified colors (the whole Death by Dyeing thing; jellybean pearlscales also fall into this category.) Although if I remember correctly, the process to create GloFish is more akin to artificial insemination than dyeing--injecting jellyfish genes into developing eggs? Something like that?--so it's quite different, and I don't think it poisons them or anything the way dyes do. I saw a brief documentary on them some time back, but I don't remember most of the details anymore.

In any case, there aren't any stores near me that sell them. :/

But don't white things usually glow under black lights? So I could try some albino cories. XD

THE BIG, ALL-ENCOMPASSING QUESTION: what types of fish will glow under black lights?

Little "Moby" is a Siamese Doll. He has grown to about 8 inches - including tail. He does have a more flowing tail than normal telescope fish, but has yellowed out. (I feed spiriliana and shrimp).



This is Moby all grown up....

Here's my Siamese Doll, Ghostie:



I've had her for a little over 6 years and she's still really small - about 4.5 - 5" including tail. She has 'yellowed' along the top, as well. She also appears to have developed some type of wen growth or something. As for her eyes, the pupils are red and the irises are white. Not sure if the yellowing disqualifies her as being 'albino' or not, but it'll be interesting to keep a watch on this thread to see if there's a conclusion to that.

Lisa

daryl and Lisa you have beautiful fish there. Interesting that little wen Lisa. Both your fish have lovely long fins.

My siamese doll has short fins and I was told was a 'dwarf' fish and would not grow beyond 5 cm. She did. Here she is today at 3 years old and 3 inches . Sorry for the poor quality pic of her. Must take more.
And now proud Mom to her own set of fry.
Hoping some will be albino. Here is one of her fry

Yay, the 'doll parents have arrived! Such pretties!

Lisa, imho, the yellowing on top doesn't disqualify a fish from being albino, so long as it remains that fleshy tone and doesn't go all the way to lemon. I don't think "albino" necessarily means "white as the driven snow," if you take my meaning. The discoloration, although it could be considered an imperfection, seems to be an albino-only trait in fish--I've never seen that particular shade in any non-albino. Take a look at albino cories, too, and you'll find that they will have a bit of tint to their scales. Or albino oscars, who still have the patterning--in orange, even!--but are still considered to be albinos (although I suppose they would be a good example of leusitic/incomplete albinism, as was mentioned earlier in the thread.)

That bit of wen is certainly interesting!

Once I move my girl to her own tank, I think I'm totally going to be experimenting with different types of lights, just to see if it's possible to pale her out again.

First, thank you for compliments on Ghostie! She's my Champion Fighter and I just luurrrvve her.

Second:



Oooh, very good point, SnBMeg! Every albino cory I've ever owned has had that 'yellow' tint on top, yet I've never seen it on any other color fish - regardless of type/breed. I wonder why that is?

I hope this thread keeps going, because this is so interesting to me.

Lisa

wow, you guys have pretty fishes

Same here! I think albinism is one of those things that's just interesting in and of itself: A condition that's so unique and distinctive, and yet we see it across most animal species on Earth--even insects! And being the owner of an albino goldfish, this particular topic fascinates me all the more.

Maybe the tint is part of the difference in makeup of scales and hair, skin, fur, feathers, etc., and all albino fish have it? Maybe it actually is a sort of "tan," perhaps on the flesh beneath (I forget if it's possible for albinos to get sunburns)? That would be one explanation for why it shows up on pretty much all the albino goldies after they're several months or so old. Would an albino kept out in the bright sun have darker discoloration?

I really don't know what the technicalities are of how the absence of pigments in scales works. It would be interesting to see what an albino scale looks like off of the fish.

Thanks, David! (Good topic, btw!)

Don't get me wrong! I am totally opposed to any form of painted/tattooed/dyed fish! These fish have been genetically modified to express the 'glowing' jellyfish gene, they do not feel it, it is now part of their genetic make-up. -the only worry would be if they could cross-breed with native fish if they were released into the wild, I think that's the big reason why they're banned in California. These fish were genetically modified as a step to eventually detect environmental toxins, but they started marketing them to petkeepers. -Here's the Wiki entry on them

Wiki glofish

White things sometimes do and sometimes don't glow under black light, here's an article that lists stuff that flouresces under black light....

http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthingswor...lblacklight.htm

I wasn't trying to make any implication that because you suggested GloFish it meant that you supported dyed fish, so I hope that nobody took it that way.

Like I said, the two are completely different. Hmm, how should I put it? My hesitancy is more of a personal perception thing, I guess, in that "unnaturally colored" fish have been so firmly associated in my mind with dyeing and all of its...bad things...that now the attribute just sets off a negative signal in my mind.

But I haven't heard of any detrimental effects of the introduced genes in the fish, so I have nothing against the engineering, sale, or ownership of GloFish. (Although the novelty marketing definitely gets my hairs up, since it advocates the fish as more of an entertaining toy than a living creature, but that's a separate issue.)

Thanks for the links! Now I know how to make my own glowy stuff using things around the house!

The idea of a bioengineered glow-in-the-dark Bristol shubunkin or Tiku pearlscale sounds like an interesting possibilty though... :

Wow, a fish like that could light up a room if it grew to full size!

Man.....all this talk about bioengineering fish and albinism is making my head SPIN!

Hey hun, no problem, I didn't take it the wrong way, I just wanted to make it clear to anyone reading this thread who doesn't understand the biomechanics of glofish and they don't actually hurt the fish and that I'm not an advocate to that sort of treatment of animals! -It can be difficult on an animal loving board for people to jump the gun and assume that because I don't mind the idea of glofish that I'd happily support the Dyed fish trade...

Lol, I was just thinking since having a tank with an inbuilt black light with fluoro gravel and plants, a theme that is so insanely unnatural, -it seems only appropriate to have genetically engineered danios glowing too!

That article about household stuff that fluoresces is pretty cool huh? I always wondered why my G & Ts used to glow when I was into clubbing... also it's good to know that if you plan on wearing black to nightclubs you should make sure that you really do a good rinse on your clothes before you wear them (otherwise it looks like you've got fluoro dandruff all over you! )




Lol, you could use one as a night light in a baby's room (sorry, babies on the brain at the mo')