Ghostie is my 5 1/2 yo Siamese Doll and she's always been a little 'delicate'. Being a Doll, I guess she just has inherent health problems, as they are prone to have. I've pulled her from the brink of death at least 3 times.

For the past 2 days, she's been bottom sitting, often with her face buried in the gravel. While she's always had red streaks in her tail (she's albino) they are now much more pronounced. I salted the tank earlier this morning and she's perked up some, but she still goes to the bottom and puts her nose in the gravel and just sits there, gills barely moving.

My problem is, I have nothng to put her in. My only other tanks are being used for my fry, as are all my pumps and filters.

My params are as follows:

pH: 7.8
Ammonia: 0
NitrItes: 0
NitrAtes: 40

My NitrAtes I have never been able to get below 40. Ever. I also must share that I am currently overstocked on this tank. I had to move my 2 fancies out of my 20g for my fry so I have 7 fancies in this 55g. I do a 50% water every other day to keep my params in check until I can resolve the overstock problem.

Payday isn't until Friday and we are strapped at the moment so I can't just go buy another tank and filter for her like I want so badly to do. I am at a complete loss. Does anyone have any ideas on what I can do for her?

TIA.

Lisa

Tia my first thought is you have to get the nitrates down.
Have you checked the tap water for nitrates? If that is 0 then it is due to being overstocked and the only way to control that is more water changes with larger amounts.
While I am sure every other day water changes can be a pain, the solution would be more.......not something easily done but very well be necessary.

I am not familar with Chinese Dolls, can you tell me a little about them?

The red streaks could be from high nitrates or a bacterial infection starting. Either way lowering the nitrates is step one.

You can use a rubbermaid tub instead of a tank in a pinch. Hope she's on the mend soon.

Hi Laurie. Thanks for replying.

I don't have nitrates in my tap, but I do have 1 ppm ammonia. I just ordered one of those 2 litre jugs of Prime because I'm going through that stuff like mad doing all these water changes. I have been strugglig with getting my nitrates down below 40 since day 1, even with as few as 3 gf in this tank. I regularly do 2 50%-75% water changes a week, only feed once a day and I switched to live plants (which I check daily to remove any dead or wilting leaves so they don't foul up the water.)

I have 2 Penguin 350s running, stuffed to the limit with bio-media.

I don't know what else to do. It seems a permanent thing. Three fish or seven, my nitrates don't change.

Oh, and Siamese Dolls are moors that are bred to stay small. Because of the size characteristic, they are known to have health problems, particularly SBD issues.

I think my only solution to is to check the couch cushions for enough lost change to go out and get another tank and filter. My dh is going LOVE me. He's already at the end of his patience with the expense the fry have been.

So, if I can swing another tank and filter, what treatment regimen would you suggest?

Lisa

Ok Lisa............wow enough change in the couch to swing a tank.....good luck with that.

I think I can shed some light on your high nitrates. Since we know you are overstocked that adds to the problem of the extra ammonia coming from the tap.
Remember ammonia eventually turns to nitrates, so the more ammonia you have the more nitrates you will eventually have.
So, Prime is a good thing to be using to non toxify the ammonia coming from the tap. However you are still going to have to bump up your water changes to more often to relieve the high nitrates.
Plants can "help" with nitrates but they aren't going to make a dent in the problem you have.
As you said above you do 2 water changes a week, you need to bump that up and do 3, maybe 4 to help with this issue. Not something appealing but high nitrates can lead to so many problems.

If you get another tank, I would recommend going larger than you need. Simply because of the tap water issue (you may need to consider 20-30 gals per gf at your house if you want less water changes. And only then "MAY" that work).
I like Biowheel filters, Canister filters are good as well. So the best you can afford will be good.

Thanks for the education on the dolls. I briefly remember something now that you jogged my memory. Cute little things, that can have issues as I recall. All the more reason to really focus on that water.

Good luck, let us know how things are going.

Yeah, that plan didn't work. I got enough for the gumball machine next time I go to the store, though!

Sheesh.

Laurie, is there ANYTHING else that could be causing my high nitrates? Like I said, even with just 3 gf and bi-weekly plus water changes, they're always at 40. It's been that way for almost a year. I've been doing 3 - 4 (every other day) water changes for the past 3 weeks and they are still stuck at 40.

As far as a new tank goes, that ain't gonna happen today. It was my and dh's 12th anniversary yesterday and well, we blew our expendable dough on one of them fancy big screen TVs (dh's idea. I would much rather have had that 200g at Petsmart that I've been drooling over!) so I am beyond broke at this exact moment. I could stretch for a cheap rubbermaid, but I'd still need a filter.

It's kinda sweet and kinda sad, but Goldie (Ghostie's original tankmate, got them at the same time and they've been buds since the beginning) is hovering over her and being very protective. If any other gf comes near, he moves his body to block them from getting close to Ghostie. If Goldie moves even an inch, Ghostie scurries to get back close to him.

Again, thank you so much for your help. I inadvertantly put this in 911, thinking I was in Diag. If you want to move it, that's okay with me.

Lisa

Even with adequate filtration, you may need to step up your aeration/degassing (especially for an over stocked tank).

Consider getting a power head and/or air diffuser. There are also tests available for measuring dissolved oxygen levels.

I have 3 bubble wands,spanning the length, to provide additional aeration. What's a diffuser? And what are these tests called and where can I find them? Not that I can get them today, but maybe on Friday, if Ghostie holds on that long.

I just did another water change - 80% (I did a 50% this morning). Those 2 W/Cs brought my nitrates way down to around 5, but I expect them to be back up in a day or two. They always go right back up.

Ghostie is still at the bottom with her gills barely moving but this is all I can do at the moment.

While I LOVE my fry, I must tell everyone here that I was totally unprepared and woefully uneducated on what it takes to embark on that undertaking. I've put my longtime, best gf at risk due to my inadequate resources to take on raising fry. To say I'm overwhelmed and past my abilities now is an understatement.

Lisa

Air diffuser can be as simple as an airstone or bubble wand, or more advanced like a carbon dioxide diffuser for planted aquariums. The simplest way to aerate and degas is to constantly circulate water to the surface, though.

These are a couple oxygen test kits:
Tetra Test O2
Red Sea Oxygen Mini Lab

I can't vouch for either of those, as I've never used them. The O2 test I use is from a pricier pond test kit.

Your first priority should definitely be a larger tank, though. Have you considered using a Rubbermaid container temporarily? You should be able to find a 50gal for less than $20.

Yes, and I have one I've used before- about 30 gallons. Problem is I don't have filtration or even aeration for it. All of my suprlus is being taken up by my 3 week old fry.

I've simply gotten myself, and my fish, into a pickle.

Lisa

Hope he gets better soon

This will sound mean, but why don't you sell/give away your fry and free up the 20g if u really want Ghostie to recover in its own tank?

The ammonia in the tap water will always turn into nitrate so there's nothing u can do about that.

That doesn't sound mean at all. As a matter of fact, after a HUGE argument with my dh over my '*blankitty-blank fish", I've decided to do just that.

If anyone is near and wants to take a few, let me know. I'll be contacting the LLFs and hoping they'll take some. The only other option I have is to let them go in the pond down the road.



Lisa

Lisa on giving them away you should try the koi/gf club down there. They may be able to help in that area as well.

As I was reading thru I was thinking maybe your nitrate test was old or you weren't doing it right, if it never budged. But since you posted after this last big change it did, that wouldn't be the case.

So...............that just leaves the fact of the waste causing it.
There are only a couple issues that you face with nitrate,
if it is in the tap water (you ruled this out)
If the test is done wrong or old (you ruled that out now)
And lastly.........too much ammonia being converted to nitrates.
So as you said they will climb up again. But you have to stop that. The only thing you can do is change enough water to keep it between 5-20. Above that is dangerous, especially for fragile, sensitve fish.

I wish I could say hey try this or try that. Here this med/pill will work to keep the nitrates lower.
But in the end it boils down to you changing the water enough to keep it under control.

I have good news - I managed to snag another 55g last night (don't ask how, it's a loooooong story!).

So, I've got the fry in the 55g, my 2 gf are back in their 20g and Ghostie has been moved to the 10g and is being treated with Pimafix. I was up until 2 a.m. getting the tanks cleaned and all set up, but Ghostie is looking MUCH better this morning and I'm down to 4 in my original 55g.

My nitrates were back up to 40 again this morning in the 1st tank, so I did another huge water change and will be testing again later. Keep fingers crossed that they don't go back up.

You know, I'm really starting to wonder about that 10g per fancy RoT. I'm beginning to think Goldie is possibly the equvilant of 2 or more gf, as she's so darn big. Her body is bigger than my hand. I may have to take it down to just her and Ghostie in the one 55g.

Again, thank you all so much for your help. I think it's under control, or beginning to be, so this can be moved.

Lisa

Lisa I am glad to hear Ghostie is doing better.

You are right, often bigger fish produce more waste. That is why the rule is only the minimum and a guidline. If you see water quality as an issue in your tank (without good cause) going bigger is better.

Keep us posted if things change, I'm happy to move your thread for you.