What makes a ryukin, a ryukin? I think it has to do with genetics. Just because the ryukin doesn't show a hump, doesn't mean its not a ryukin. Besides there are other differences than just the hump. After all some ryukins get very large humps and others only get tiny ones. Fantail also seem to have slightly different geometric shapes to their body. Fantails and ryukins are completely different if you ask me.What is your opinion on this?

BTW- I think that if you don't know where the fish came from, you most likely won't be able to make a clear cut decision on a fishes breed until they are adults.

Ok, so what are the fish we call fantails. Completely different breeds or is a fantail just a name for a ryukin with no hump?

All goldfish are, after all, goldfish. No matter it's an oranda, bubble-eye, ranchu, ryukin etc they're all Carassius auratus.

It's all in the body morphology. We differentiate every breed of goldfish solely on the morphological differences (and colouration of course) between each individual fish. We give them different names to differentiate between "a set of characteristics" that each fish has eg. if a fish got a wen, a dorsal fin, and a double-tail, then it's an oranda.

Fantails and ryukins are completely different, u say? I'm not completely in agreement with the statement. After all, a ryukin is a fantail with a pronounced hump, simple as that. The hump can be big or small, but if it's pronounced enough, then it's a ryukin. Of course, a good quality ryukin will have a long line of selective breeding behind him with a long line of good quality ryukin parents to back him up, so saying a ryukin is a fantail with a hump is also not entirely correct. Ironically, if a pair of champion ryukins with the perfect ryukin characteristics are to spawn, their spawn will undoubtedly produce a mixture of fantails, nymphs & ryukins, and probably only very few handful will inherit their parents' perfect characteristics.

So, u ask what are the fish we call fantails? In my opinion, a fantail is a goldfish (Carassius auratus) that has these "set of characteristics": double-tail, dorsal fin, no hump, and a "clean" facial attributes (no wen, no telescope-eye, etc). What's a ryukin? A goldfish which has similar characteristics as above, only add "prominent hump".

My two cents

ohhh.....I could cry

I love ryukins..but im finding them very difficult to keep.I had 2 die seperately for no reason suddenly.even my bubble eye and telescope eyes veiltail seem much hardier than ryukins from my lfs.

I agree with D Golem and Daryl.