Well, my new crowntail was moved into a 5-gal tank, and about a week ago he started showing signs of popeye.
I've never had any personal experience with this before, so I waited a few days and sure enough his eye is indeed larger than the other.
It's going very, very slowly and he's still as spunky as ever (and eating like a pig, lunging towards the food), so I was just watching him to make sure.
I read a few topics, and since it's only one eye, I thought maybe it was just trauma from hitting something, what, I'm not sure as there are only live plants in there, besides the smooth filter and heater. But as I looked much more closely, I noticed a small spot on his pectoral fin. I don't think it's ick. It's not completely white (almost tannish), but it's hard to tell for sure as he flutters those fins around about as fast as a pufferfish. I'm wondering if it might be lice or mites.
I'm started treatment today with some Jungle Labs parasite-clear.
I'm soon going to be running up to the store to buy some spring water for him. Tap water's just too iffy here, even after being treated. I know I should have done a water change first, but I wanted to start treating him right away. The water in the tank is clean and in good condition.

I did have a question. I was reading the pinned topic about betta diseases, and came upon this part in the internal parasites. It said feeding live brown worms can cause internal parasites.
Just curious, and because I'm paranoid about my fish getting sick, but can frozen blood worms do this? I also don't know what it means by "brown worms" as blood worms look brown to me.

The tank was salted, which is supposed to minimize parasites, so I'm confused why the spot showed up.
It's also hard to tell if he's losing weight, as he was small (and most likely young) to begin with.

Any suggestions, or am I doing this correctly?

The brown worms are most likely tubifex worms, which are essentially grown in sewage and do contain a number of parasites. For that reason we usually do recommend feeding only frozen worms, and I recommend Hikari as theirs are sterilized.

If you are sure it is popeye, and it sounds like it is, I would start him on antibiotics. Usually it is a result of an internal bacterial infection. I have used Maracyn 2 with good results before. For some reason, my bettas always succumbed to bacterial infections. I never did figure out why, but it seemed that the smaller and cooler the tank, with less water flow, the better they did.

Ok, well I gave him a complete water change (aside from the 1.5 inches under rocks so the plant roots wouldn't be exposed) and started him on Maracyn 2.
He's got today and tomorrow left on his 5 day treatment and so far he's looking... worse.

I have seriously been in near-tears watching him everyday. He still acts the same but his one eye looks like it's about to pop right out already.
Has anyone else's bettas looked worse while being medicated before they got better? What's the longest someone had to treat their betta with Maracyn 2?
The petshop didn't have any medicated food, so I'm waiting for them to get that in.


I did find out what might have caused it while doing a very thurough cleaning. It's an Aqua-Tech 5-gallon tank that has an above-the-tank filtration system (with a bio-filter too!) and the hood completely covers it all. This was the original tank I had in mind for bettas and I figured since the air is moist it wouldn't dry out their gills (and keep my cats OUT), and in all be a good betta tank. That locking in moisture proved to be a downfall too.
There's only a small slit where the cords from the filter, light and heater run out from. The lack of dry air caused a small fungus buildup in the cracks and corners around it and I'm guessing some spores fell down into the water. So I cleaned that out and took off a panel to open the back a little more.
I couldn't find the actual website, but I did find a sort of add that has a picture of it. Just so others who might own the tank will be aware of this potential hazard.

http://sandiego.fox6.com/buyselltrade/clas...e=oid%3A1290179

I'm sorry he's not any better Popeye is often water quality related, so your theory about the fungus buildup in the tank may have something to do with it, basically anything that degrades the water quality can cause a problem.

Definately complete the course of Maracyn two, I gather you can repeat the whole course once more but I'm not sure whether it's best to wait for a few days first. I know you can also add in plain old Maracyn as well, but again I couldn't say what the best way of going about it is. Try to keep the water as good as possible too. Hopefully, somebody else can confirm the medications stuff for you. Sounds like the medicated food would definately help here, so hopefully you'll get that soon. Sometimes sick fish do look worse before they get better, it all depends, but don't give up

How's he doing now Nakita, any improvement yet?

Not anything definite, but he's not getting worse. (at least now I'm not panicing and am actually calm about it) And he's still spunky and eating so that's a good sign.

The Maracyn 2, however, has all but killed my plants. They're probably going to add enough ammonia into the water to cause more problems, so I'm fighting with my instinct to just toss them before anything happens, and my urge to try and salvage what's left.
Logically I know they will probably die anyway, but they were so pretty I want to try and save them to the very end before finally giving in and throwing them. That, or I'll tell my boyfriend to do it while I'm not looking.

I went up to the pet shop today, the medicated food didn't come in, and it would be a little over a week to get any in, IF it even does.
So now I have begun to wonder if I should order some online or take the risk of waiting another week and possibly not getting any then either.

I had just changed the filter in the tank before using the Maracyn 2, and it suggested only keeping in the filter if it's over 5 days old (which obviously it wasn't, so I took it out), so after the first 5-day treatment, I put a new one in right away to help clear up the tank and am going to clean it again. All the sides became coated in... something. The meds said it would cause the water to get cloudy, but I didn't think this bad!

So I will be cleaning the tank and giving lots of water changes for 3-4 days before starting another treatment. I think a small wait inbetween these treatments might be good so he's not overdosed.

Or should I just do a constant treatment until he shows improvement?

You said I could add normal Maracyn as well, did you mean at the same time, or different treatments?
Maybe I should do one treatment of Maracyn 2, then one treatment of Maracyn 1 directly after that first is expired, and keep on that cycle?

The chart that came with this medication is pretty extensive (even though it didn't say anything about plants! Grr.) and I must say it impressed me greatly. The Maracyn 2 is for gram-negative bacterial infections, while the Maracyn 1 is for gram-positive bacterial infections (along with fungal diseases). Although Maracyn 2 is recommended for fish with pop-eye, I'm curious if gram-positive bacteria could also play a part in this sickness.
Maracyn 2 is also for ill fish that will not eat. Since my boy is continuing to eat, I am really debating whether or not this particular medication is the best one.
Out of the medications suggested in this booklet for pop-eye, the only others that sound like they might help are normal Maracyn, and this one called Tetracycline Tablets. The latter, though, says it is also for gram-negative bacteria, and is fast-dissolving but does not say it is a broad-spectrum antibiotic.

I think I am going to try and find the difference between gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria before making any final decisions. Maybe I'll write another novella later.

No worse is a good thing, so keep going

Personally, I think I'd remove the plants for the sake of the water quality (which is paramount to recovery) and for the plants themselves. Do you have small plastic tub you can put them in for now? Maybe you'll be able to salvage them.

Maybe you could order the medicated food online, from Goldfish Connection for example. I believe they send out orders quite quickly.

As for what to do next in terms of treatment, Someone needs to clarify that for you as I'm not not sure whether you should go for another round of Maracyn Two or add in Maracyn as well or neither.

I think your plan of leaving it a few days, maintaining good water quality alone sounds good - that may be all he needs.

My understanding is that most internal bacterial infections such as Dropsy (Popeye often starts before) are caused by gram-negative bacteria, so are therefore more likely to respond to Maracyn Two. Whereas, external infections are usually gram-positive, but popeye sometimes responds.

Although, other bacteria can play it's part and it can be mixture of the two and that's why treating with a gram-positive medication can sometimes help to prevent against secondary infections while the fish is under stress.

I gather, some people have treated with both either together or seperately, but somebody needs to clarify that for you. I gather that generally speaking the Maracyns are better than Tetetracycline, I think partly because it has been overused in fishkeeping for many years and so many bacterias are resistant to it.

You've done one course of maracyn Two already and that may be all he needs, good water quality and time may be all he needs. Good luck with him.

Hi Nakita,Sorry to hear that your Betta's out of sorts.
Normally,we do recommend tha you run both the Maracyns together as the Company itself says it's safe to to do.
The most common bacterial diseases in fish are gram negative bacteria,but occasionally,you will see a fish turn up with gram positive bacteria.Because there are so many strains of Bacteria,it is almost impossible for us,even with a Microscope,to determine what actual Bacteria it is ,that we're dealing with,so it actually makes sense to run the two together and cover all areas--both gram negative/gram positive .

Normally Popeye is almost always in both eyes when you see it. I personally don't think it's impossible though, to get it in just one eye .
Any time that you choose to medicate,you always need to start out with perfect water params.Do you have a test kit for checking that? Water can look clear and beautiful,and yet still be deadly to your fish.
The next thing would be to stress just how important it is NOT to wait over a week before you decide to medicate your fish.It's one thing to wait a day or so,to see if it changes for the better,but with Popeye,Dropsy,etc.it is especially important to start treatment immediately.The longer you wait,the more serious they can become and the longer it will take to get the fish well.
Also,anytime the body swells,whether it be popeye/Dropsy,it's swelling because it's retaining fluids,so regular aquarium salt is not normally recommended.Often you'll see that Epsom Salt at 1/8 tsp per 5 gallons is used to help reduce any swelling.
Another reason with starting with perfect water params with the Maracyn is because basically,you're supposed to go without water changes so that the full 5 day treatment builds up to the maximum amount of Med levels needed to kill any bacteria. Prime is often used during treatment to help detoxify any water issues going on while in the course of treatment.
I have heard of fish taking a few days,or up to a couple weeks before their eyes looked better,so this may may take a while.
Now you can start with a clean tank,and run a full course of Maracyn and M2,for another full 5 days,or you can try another med if you'd like.Alot of the Betta Forums talk of the Maracyns,but they also talk about Ampicillan-or Aquatronic's Ampicilex,or Tetracyclline for treating Popeye. This is entirely up to you.Often times,serious bacterial infections do require a second course of meds.
I wish you liuck with the little guy and please keep us posted on how he is doing.

Argh, more bad news. Worse news, really.
I'd been treating him with both Maracyns, giving him a day break, doing a water change and filtering out the rocks, then starting him on another 5-day treatment.

After this previous treatment, I noticed some spots on the sides in the morning, thought they were just air bubbles, and went to work.
When I got home and watched him I noticed those "spots" were moving. UGH! Tiny little white worm-like things that were barely 3 mm long, but I saw two within a few hours span that were almost half a centimeter long. It just grossed me out and threw me into a panic as to how this could happen.
I popped in some of Jungle Lab's Parasite Clear, which they didn't seem to like, then another the next day, and although they are still there, it looks like there are less. (although by "less" I mean not thickly plastered to every inch of glass)
But now I'm worried about his Maracyn treatments. I doubt that all three treatments be in the tank at the same time.
I haven't seen any of these horrid creatures on my poor boy (although my boyfriend said he saw one on the eye that was popped out, but I didn't see anything), but I'm still panicing.

My boyfriend said maybe he was sick right from the day I got him and it's only now showing in full force. I'm wondering now if maybe the cause of his pop-eye was parasites, and if I should drop the Maracyn treatments in favor of Parasite Clear.

Or just say good-bye to him. Buying all these meds is killer on my wallet. =(

The only other tank I have is a 1-gallon bowl. And without a heater in it, he'll freeze at night.