I bought a red oranda (I think, store just called fancy goldfish) and brought him home and put in a 29 gallon tank with a large comet we had in a bowl (winter), pond (summer) for 3 years. He was very active the first night. I didn't have a filter yet, so they went one day without. Next day they both were very sluggish. I put in my filter (from an old tank, been in attic 5 yrs, could it have "old diseases" on it?) and gravel (also been sitting in open air for 5 years). Sorry, I seem like such a moron after reading this site. After the filter started running and I fed them, they perked up. But still, the oranda spends most of his time sitting on the bottom and the other one sits with him. They get up and swim when I tap or they think they're going to get fed. I'm feeding flakes, soaked so they sink. The oranda eats bubbles though, and picks up gravel often. I think his tail and fins are clamped more than when he first came. He also is getting black on the edges of his fins. I took the water to the pet store and they said it was fine. I will go and get a test kit but probably can't get there for a few days. I've changed about 20% of the water every other day for the past week. They perk up a little. I added salt according to the directions on the box. Should I add more for each change? Also, the oranda is developing a whitish tinge on his scales. Not enough that I would for sure say ich, but I really don't know. The other one has neither the whitish tinge or the black edges. He seems far healthier. What else can I do? I'm gonna do a major water change tonight. I am very attached to this silly fish, I really don't want him to die. Oh, the filter is large, I bought for a 75 gallon tank. It makes a fairly strong current, I don't think I can turn it down. It sits on the top. It is a Penguin. Both fish are about 4 inches long. They are truly sitting on the gravel, not floating above it. In one corner only. Away from the filter. I used Cycle but the water was only in it for a day before the fish. Thanks for the advice...

Hi shandressage and

Congratulation on your new fish and it's great you have them in a decent sized home. If you have a comet and a fancy in there - they should do well as the comet needs a good 20 gallons and your fancy 10 (+)

I think what may be happening here is water toxicity. Once you've set up the filter, it can take anywhere from 6 - 8 weeks for it to cycle meaning your filter and surfaces start to house nitrifying bacteria which then converts ammonia to nitrites to nitrates and as this bacteria won't have colonised your filter yet, ammonia levels may be starting to climb to a level that's making your fish lethargic.

The black you see sound like ammonia burns that are starting to heal but unfortunately this will be a constant until the ammonia leaves the water. Unfortunately both ammonia and nitrites can kill a fish, especially when levels rise which is why test kits are so important. I've found a lot of pet stores quote water as being ok even at levels of 1.0ppm for both ammonia and nitrites however, both these levels become dangerous, especially when a fish is stressed or weaker.

So if you can, I'd try and get my hands on some test kits asap and then you'll know when you need to do a waterchange and unfortunately in the initial 6-8 weeks, this may become a daily occurrence - unless you have either Prime or Amquel Plus water conditioners? These are both excellent products as they detoxify ammonia and nitrites so are a necessary friend while cycling your tank

You'll be able to identify ich as it looks like someone sprinkled salt on your fish - I think what you're seeing may be a skin irritation, possibly from the water so doing a massive waterchange is an excellent idea. I'm sure they'll love you for it.

I summary, cycling a tank is the pits but you do eventually get through it and hopefully with your fish none the worse for wear. It takes a bit of work initially but once the tank has cycled, you can go to weekly waterchanges to keep the water cleaner and bacterial counts in the safer range but for now, I'd try to do daily waterchanges if you can - at least 50% because once the ammonia and nitrites start to climb, it becomes a very stressful environment.

So post back after your waterchange to see if there's any improvement

Thanks for the advice! I did a 35% change last night with no improvement of the oranda (Blub). This morning he is worse, not moving at all, clamped fins, not even getting up for food. I did a 50% change this morning (adding a dechlorinater to each 2 gallons I put in and salt, slightly less than recommended). I moved some rocks around in the tank to try to contain the filter current and in the process stirred up the gravel and released alot of stuff. That worried me, so I did another 20% change and the water was clearer. No improvement in Blub, he looks so sad. I guess he will either die today or make it. The comet (Blurp) is swimming around like a mad man, I guess on an oxygen high. He could live through anything. Figures, I like the other one more. I'm gonna go buy a test kit and the Prime? I will do another change tomorrow, I hope Blub makes it through. Thanks.

I think the most important thing right now is water quality because unfortunately, without knowing what your parameters are, it's impossible to advise the use of meds. They will only add to the burden.

There's a possibility your fish came to you with something - so I have some questions:

- is he pooping at all? How does it look?
- can you see when he breathes the colour of his gills? Are they a nice meat red?
- is there any redness on the body at all?
- any excessive yawning?