I just got home from Christmas with family and noticed that all of my fish were in distress. I don't know why. I just did a water change two days ago and everything was fine. My new pearlscale has ich really bad on her tail. My other new fish, a lionhead, has clamped fins and is just moping, and my larger goldfish looks like he's got swim bladder disease. How can I treat all of these in one tank? I don't have a back up tank running right now. I'll check the water perameters and post them first thing in the morning. It's just too late to do it tonight. I've been sick as a dog and need the sleep. Oh, what am I going to do?

Have you had a chance to test your water yet? That is a good first start.

What I would suggest to begin with, is to do another water change. Then start to salt your tank to 0.3%. That would be 1 tablespoon per gallon. Add it is three stages, 12 hours apart. So, add 1 TEASPOON per gallon, wait 12 hours, add another 1 TEASPOON per gallon, wait 12 hours and add another 1 TEASPOON per gallon. Dissolve the salt in tank water first. Use aquarium, pickling, kosher, coarse or sea salt (a salt without additives).
BTW, 1 tablespoon = 3 teaspoons

What are the symptoms that make you think your larger fish has swimmbladder?

Well, I just checked the water perams and everything seems normal.

Ammonia is at 0

Nitrates are at 30

Nitrites are 0

GH (total hardness) is 75

KH (alkilinity) is 80 or "moderate" is what the test guide says

pH is neutral around 7.2


I thought that Moe has swim bladder because last night he seemed to be struggling to stay upright with his tail end floating upward. This morning they were all hiding in their cave together. I tapped the glass to wake them up and tell them it's time to eat. Only the lionhead came out and ate, somewhat less vigerously than usual. I have a question before I begin to salt the tank. Will the salt hurt my algea eaters and snails? Should I take them out? I have an empty tank but it is just that: empty. I don't have another cycled tank to keep them. What can I do?



wait, I just looked at the tank and they are all out swimming now. Moe looks fine and is swimming right. He seems fine except for some red streaks in his tail. They don't have clamped fins anymore but my pearlscale, Ruby, has got ich all over her poor little tail. It's really bad. They are huge and there are so many of them.

I did a small (10%) water change and then added the salt after I took out my snail. I left the algea eaters in thinking they would be okay. Moe doesn't look great. He's kind of flashing a little bit and he keeps settling on the bottem and his dorsal fin is so clamped that it looks like its bending over. The others seem to be handling everything ok. Ruby looks alright aside from the ich all over her. The lionhead is pretty active right now. Moe is just sitting on the bottem looking miserable. I hope I don't lose any of them. The lionhead is chasing Moe now. He's still clamped but he's moving around.

Oh, my tank temp is at 75 f. Should I turn it up?

Sorry to keep replying to my own post but I figure I may as well some more information that might help while I'm waiting.


I already posted my test results but here is the rest of the list:

* Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? 55 gallon has been running for two years


* What is the name and size of the filter/s? I'm not sure what brand filter it is but it's the kind they sell at nnnnnn. It's a 50-60 gallon tank size


* How often do you change the water and how much? I just did a ten percent water change today and did two other water changes earlier in the week trying to get the nitrate levels down. Everything seemed fine until last night when I came home and Ruby had ich all over her.



# How many fish in the tank and their size? Three goldfish in the tank. One large, one medim size, and one small. I also have two algea eaters and an apple snail.


# What kind of water additives or conditioners? I use AquaSafe water conditioner with every water change

# Any medications added to the tank? I added salt this morning.


# Add any new fish to the tank? Yes, the lionhead and pearlscale are new.


# What do you feed your fish? I feed them flakes, sometimes shrimp pellets or goldfish crumbles. I also feed them Laguna brand goldfish and koi food (small pellets). I feed them vegetables and fruit occasionally.


# Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt",
bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Yes, Moe has small red streaks in his tail fins. Ruby has ich. Both the lionhead and Moe have clamped fins. Moe is sitting on the bottem in a corner now looking really bad. The other two are sitting in the cave.


# Any unusual behavior like staying
at the bottom, not eating, ect..? Yes, Moe is sitting on the bottem looking miserable. The other two were active earlier and now are hiding. All are still eating.

Good thing that you removed the snail. They don't tolerate salt very well.

What kind of algae eater do you have?

The salt will take care of the ich. You will have to leave it in for 14 days, even if the ich is off of the fish. The life cycle of ich is that it forms a cyst on the fish. When this hatches, it releases many microscopic ich into the tank which fall to the bottom of the tank until they hatch. They are then free-swimming looking for a fish to attach to and start the cycle all over again.
For this reason it is a good idea to vacuum the gravel or siphon the bottom of the tank when you do a water change. It will remove many of them before they hatch.

The only time you can kill them is when they are in the free-swimming stage. That is why you must keep the salt in the water even when the cysts fall off of the fish.

Your temperature is OK. If you turn it up, make sure to add some extra aeration, because the water holds less oxygen when it is warmer.

How much water have you taken out over the last couple of days?

I have probably taken about fifty percent of the water out withing the last five days. I changed the water on Friday and on Saturday. Then I changed it again today before I added the salt. Is that bad? I use water straight from the tap but I treat it with water conditioner before it goes in. I had high nitrates (around 40 ppm) and I was trying to get them down.

I'm not sure what kind of algea eaters they are. They were just labeled "algea eaters" at the pet store. They look like they have tiny scales and they are about an inch and a half to two inches long. Both are adults. They seem to be doing okay, better than the goldfish actually.

I don't know why Moe is doing so bad. He is eating right now, very vigerously. I fed them peas. Well, he's swimming around now and picking at gravel too but his fins are still clamped. But if he isn't eating he's hiding in his cave or sitting on the bottem with his fins clamped. The other two keep hiding in the cave too. I keep wondering if maybe I put too much salt in. I put in one teaspoon per gallon (actually 53 tsps because I don't think there is exactly 55 gallons of water in the tank). Is that right?

No, you didn't put too much salt in.

In order to treat the ich you will have to add the same amount of salt, two more times.

So, add 53 teaspoons of salt, wait 12 hours and add another 53 teaspoons of salt. That will be the right dosage to treat ich (an approx. 0.3% solution).

I know it sounds like a lot of salt, but this is the dosage to use. Goldfish tolerate salt very well. Keep an eye on the algae eaters, and if they appear to be in any distress, I would remove them. They should be OK, though.

No, it is good that you have removed that much water. Whenever I have a fish that is doing poorly, I do a large water change.

I would suggest doing another water change of about 30% in a couple of days. Re-add the salt that you have removed. So, for example, if you remove 15 gallons of water, and your tank is salted to 0.3% (1 total of 1 tablespoon per gallon), re-add 15 tablespoons of salt.

It may take a few days to see a difference in your fish. As long as they aren't getting worse, then I would give the salt a chance to work.

Do you ever notice the algae eaters going after the goldfish? Many of these fish will suck at goldfish in order to eat their slime coats. I would keep an eye out for that. It can be very stressful for goldfish. The only algae eating type fish that are truly safe with goldfish are bristlenose plecos (ancistrus) and rubberlip (rubbernose) plecos.

I hope this helps and please feel free to ask questions. Please let me know how your fish are tomorrow morning.

Well, I got all of the salt in and I've been feeding them peas. They all seem to be doing better. I can still see the ich on Ruby but I guess it takes a little time. They all seem active and all are eating. The algea eaters seem to be doing fine too. Thank you for your help. I really appreciate it.

I just saw my algea eater go after Ruby! I've seen him do this twice now. I'm going to move them into the other tank once I get it running.

Yes, it will take a few days for the ich to drop off of the fish. At that point, the cysts lie on the bottom of the tank until they hatch. If you do a gravel vac or siphon the bottom of the tank, you can remove a lot of them before they hatch. Keep the salt at 0.3% by replacing any that you remove with water changes and when the cysts hatch and are free swimming, the salt in the water will kill them. The whole process will take about 14 days.

I would do about 2 water changes per week of about 30%, just to keep the water in really good shape whilst the fish are battling ich. Replace the salt with 1 tablespoon of salt for every gallon of water that you remove and replace.

Yes, a good idea to remove the algae eater. Once they get a taste of slime coat, they will continue to go after the slower moving goldfish. Not only can they stress the goldfish, they can start ulcers, as well.

I'm glad to hear they are doing better, and please keep me posted on their progress.

Wait, I add a tablespoon per gallon now? I was adding a teaspoon per gallon. Does it change?

I always make sure to vaccuum the gravel when I do a water change. I'll be sure to get it extra well while I'm treating them. Now that I've noticed the algea eaters going after the fish it seems that they are doing it a lot. I'm going to try to get my fiance to help me get my other two tanks running tomorrow so I'll be able to seperate them quicker.

The fish all look great right now. I'm going to feed them in a few minutes. I put some extra aquasafe in the tank to help keep their slime coats nice and thick. Thanks again for your help and attentiveness. This is why I love this site. Everyone here is just incredible.

The dosage of salt to treat ich is a TOTAL of 1 TABLESPOON per gallon.

This is added in three doses of 1 TEASPOON per gallon, spaced at 12 hour intervals. After adding the 1 teaspoon per gallon, 3 times, you end up with a total dose of 1 tablespoon per gallon. A tablespoon contains 3 teaspoons.

So, after you have added the 1 teaspoon per gallon, 3 times, and achieved the full dose of 1 tablespoon per gallon, you have to replace 1 tablespoon per gallon when you do water changes.

It is confusing in the beginning, but I hope I have explained it. If not, please feel free to ask questions.

The reason you add the salt in three stages, 12 hours apart, is to gradually acclimate the fish to the salt level. It is easier on them that way.

Yes, those algae eaters can get to be problematic. They do best with fast moving fish, such as tetras, danios, white clouds. The little speed demons of the fish world

If you want an algae eater for your goldfish tank, you should choose either a bristlenose (my preference) or a rubbnose (aka rubberlip).


I am so glad that your fish are doing better. That is so great to hear

Oh, ok. That makes sense with the salt. lol I guess I could have figured that out but that is why I'm an English major.

It just so happens that my fiance is going to set up a tetra and guppy tank. I bet the algea eaters would go well with those fish. I was thinking about a bristlenose pleco but they get so big and I think they are kind of scary looking fish. Maybe I'll stick with a couple of apple snails to do the algea clean up duties.

Sorry to butt in - you are not using Iodized table salt, right?

Bristlenoses stay relatively small and usually end up about 4.5 inches, at the most. The females do not have the large bristles, some just have little stubs. The males have the large, impressive bristles. As for algae eating, they can't be beat and they remain vegetarian (although mine have developed a love of ProGold goldfish pellets lol).

Yes, I think your present algae eaters will go well with guppies and tetras. Keep your tetras in groups of at least six. That way they will chase each other if they are that way inclined, and not your guppies.

How are things going?

Well I did a large water change a couple of days ago adding salt back in so it stays at the same concetration leve. They have all seemed to be doing pretty well. Ruby has ich still but less. It's not coming off very fast. I guess I'll just have to be patient. Other than Ruby having ich they all seem healthy and happy. I am using aquarium salt for freshwater aquariums. I made sure to get it from the pet store for freshwater aquariums.

My stepdad let me take a few pictures of the fish with his digital camera. As soon as he emails those to me I'll post them.

Today I checked on Ruby and she is completely free of ich. They must have all dropped off yesterday and last night. I did notice though that she has some blood streaks under her left front fin on her belly. I checked the water perams and the ammonia was really high. I don't know why. Maybe I've been feeding too much or maybe somebody else fed them yesterday while I was gone. Anyway, I did a twenty percent water change, adding salt and gravel vaccing. I'm going to check the ammonia level again in a little while.

Ouch, you'll want to make sure you get that ammonia under control pronto. It can bring about another bout of ich.

Another helpful hint is to treat the ich for 7 full days past seeing any, that way you get the cycts as well.

Yeah, I tested again after the water change and it hasn't really gone down. I don't know what could be causing it. How soon can I do a second water change? I plan on doing another twenty percent change tomorrow but I'm out of salt so I'll have to run and get some tonight. I was looking at Ruby and I think the blood might be from bite marks from the algea eaters. I'm going to get them out as soon as I can but I've only just started getting my other tank running. It won't be ready for a couple more weeks. I was thinking about a tank divider for the algea eaters. Can you buy those or do you need to make them?

Acutally you need to change water now. What is the ammonia reading? As well as the other ones? Post those as well.

What you will need to do is do a large change 50% then wait an hour and test again, do this until the ammonia is under 0.25. If there are nitrates in the tank get the ammonia to 0.

You can worry about the salt tomorrow. THat ammonia needs down or the fish will suffer.

After you post the levels we can discuss what may be causing this.
Would probably be a good idea to test the tap water and post those results as well.

I feel bad for my fish. I've been in bed all day with a migrain and have not been able to do a proper water change yet. Oh, I know I need to do a water change but I still feel sick when I get up. I asked my fiance to come over tomorrow morning to help. It's the soonest he can come. I just can't drag a five gallon bucket across the house yet.

I found one of the algea eaters dead stuck behind the heater and the wall. I didn't think it was big enough to get behind there. I really don't know how he managed it. I only have one algea eater left now. I think that was why the ammonia spiked so much. I feel bad for the poor little thing. Why does everything happen when I get sick?

I hope you feel better soon, I too have been sick with the flu. It is no fun.
HOpefully he can help you out, sorry about your pleco.

Well, I've been battling the ammonia problem. I actually think my cycle may have crashed. My nitrates are up high and I even have some nitrites. I did a fifty percent water change today and the ammonia went down to about .25 ppm. My pearlscale, Ruby, started to look like her scales were sticking out but they look a little bit better now after the water change today. She has little blood streaks all over her belly. Is this from the ammonia? I moved the other algea eater into a ten gallon tank with my snail so it's not him. I guess I'm just going to really stay on top of the water quality until it balances itself back out. I was thinking about moving Ruby into the ten gallon by herself but then she would still be with the algea eater. I also don't know how she will deal with going straight from salted water to unsalted water. I don't know what else I can do for her right now.

Ok, can you post the numbers of the params? This will help us to figure out where and what is exactly going on with the water.
High nitrates can cause poisioning, so ??????
Ammonia has it's own problems.............either could be messing up the fish.

What you can do is test the water an hour after each water change, see where it is at, if it needs changed again do so right away, don't wait.
You can do this until it gets where it needs to be.
(ammonia and nitrites 0 and nitrate 5-20)

Going from salted water to fresh water won't hurt the fish. It is when you go from fresh water into a salt concentration higher than 0.1% you have problems.

ammonia is .25 ppm
nitrates are 20 ppm
nitrites are .5 ppm
harness is 150
KH is 120
pH is 7.2

So, I can do another water change today until the perams get better?

Should I just put Ruby in the other tank in case she needs a seperate treatment?

Ruby died last night. I didn't think it could happen that fast. I came home and found her upside down under a plant. I wasn't sure if she was dead right away so I held her in my hand in the water for a long time making sure she wasn't still breathing or her eyes weren't moving. He little body was so soft. She must have just died when I found her. She even still had a little piece of poop sticking out of her little butt. She was just as pretty as ever. I put her in a plastic bag in the freezer for now until I figure out what to do with her. I'll have to burry her under the snow if the ground is too frozen to dig.

Oh man I am sorry to hear this. What a tough break, I hope you take care.

For the remaining fish, yes getting those water conditions under control will help them.
How many fish do you have left?

Well, the good news is that the water perameters are starting to finally become stable again. I have two goldfish remaining: Moe and Cheeto. They are tough little guys.

Hopefully they'll make it thru. Good luck.

When I checked yesterday the water perameters where just about perfect with ammonia at 0, Nitrites at 0, and Nitrates at 20. Thank goodness everything is back to normal.

Glad to hear that.