I've been battling with the pH in both my tanks and with the treatment, I can get it down from 8 to 7, but as soon as I stop using the treatment it goes back up. I can't keep using the treatment because it says so on the bottle. You can only use it so many times then you have to have a break. It's during this break that it shoots up again.

I was thinking, instead of adding it directly to the tank, could I get away with adding it to the water that is intended for the tank? I always let my water sit for at least 24 hours before adding it so that the chlorine, chloramines etc. can dissipate. This period of time will allow the treatment to reduce the pH of the water before I add it to the tank. Also, the fish will not come into direct contact with the treatment. This means that gradually, the pH in the tanks will drop because the water going in has a lower pH than the water coming out, right?

I could probably sort this one out for myself, but it's always better to get a second opinion before actually doing anything. I don't wanna do anything that will upset my fish in any way, so any help will be greatly appreciated

Have you tried using a buffer, I believe it is. A buffer helps to regulate the pH after altering it. I assume it works for lowering the pH as it does for raising it. Just using somthing to raise or lower the pH won't stabalize the changes (so that they won't change the longer the water sits). JenW told me that as long as the pH is stable, it isn't a problem; that the fish will adjust. By stable she means that it has sat out as you said you already do. As I said, I assume it is the same for too high as too low (my problem).
I wouldn't recommend putting it directly in the tank. From what I have learned on the forum, is that you should never make water changes like that directly to the tank water, only to the fresh water before you change it. You want the water stable before you put it in.
I hope I have helped and not confused you more.
Good luck.

You know what, I don't even know what I'm using any more. I've got so many different treatments in my room. I've got something like 4 or 5 different treatments for the same thing, and they all vary by Brand, so I don't know what does what off the top of my head. I think I have one that's a buffer, somewhere lol.

Don't worry, you haven't confused me. There's only so far a person can be confused and I passed that limit years ago

I'm finally off to bed now as it's coming up to 6am. Not that it's gonna do me any good cos my sis will be back from clubbing in a couple of hours and the silly cow left her keys here, so I guess I'll be getting a phone call to come down and open the door.......

I would leave PH at 8 which is ok for gf. You are very lucky man, I have to raise it to 7 from 6.4

I agree with small ranchu. I wouldn't try to adjust your water. I have been keeping goldfish for years with a ph of 7.8 - 8.0 with no ill effects.

The only thing to watch with a higher ph is your ammonia level. Ammonia is more toxic when the ph is high.

I would just continue to do regular water changes and allow the ph to gradually adjust to your "natural" ph out of the tap.

I agree, let them adjust to the higher PH. Mine are in 7.8 and I drove myself crazy trying to lower it; it was a waste of time. The fish are fine, but i don't let the ammonia build up. I also like the idea that they are not swimming around in chemicals.
Do you know what your KH is? It sounds like you have a good one.

The pH is a measurement of the number of free hydrogen ions in your water. The lower the pH, the larger number of ions present. As your nitrogen cycle works in a tank, the beneficial bacteria peel off the hydrogen ions to make the nitrites and nitrates. That is why a pH can slowly fall in a tank that is running with a nitrogen cycle - particularly if there are no water changes.

To help hold the pH stable, a "buffer" is added to the water. I like to describe the buffer as shocks on a car. When you do not have any shocks and you go over a bump, the car goes up and down and up and down and bounces all over the place. If you have good shocks, the car will barely move at all as you go over bumps. Those shocks are your buffer of the tank.

The buffer will "take up" the excess hydrogen ions when there are lots of them, and release them back into the water when there are fewer. If you have a really GOOD strong buffer, you can add all the pH changers you want to the water, but the buffer is just going to take them up and even out the changes. They are simply doing the job they are supposed to - holding the pH stable right where it is....

As others have stated, it sounds like you have a nice solid set of "shocks" on your tank. They make it difficult for you to change the pH. But it also sounds like, as they have also said, it is not necessary to change the pH. People around me keep their fish in 8.6-8.9pH with little or no problem. Consistancy is the name of the game. A high pH can cause some medications as well as ammonia to be a bit different (some meds are more toxic in low pH, others in high), but in general, goldfish can adjust to living in a VERY wide range of pH - as long as it is a STEADY consistant number.

DOes that help with pH a bit more?

, Daryl!

Thanks for the replies guys.



I test my KH on a regular basis and it is always at the low end of the scale. I use TetraTest 5in1 which measures KH in °d (I have no idea what this means. Anyone know?). The result for both tanks is usually 3-6°d but used to be higher.

Very well explained Daryl. You've put it in terms that I understand the most

That would be 53.7 ppm KH - 107.4 ppm KH

I don't know what the degrees mean, you should have got some instructions with your test that could tell you what it means.
If it does translate into parts per million then it makes sense that it would be high because your ph is also high. my test says 80 ppm is great! sadly mine is not so good. 40ppm. that means I have to keep a close eye on it. I test for it alot to be on the safe side. I test especially if the water has not been changed recently.
I also watch it if I have added chemicals of any kind to the tank. I am usually all right because I change the water so frequently. The new water contains more buffers. I have seen it slip though!

Alot of people think that fish would be o.k. in bottled water. We tend to associate it with purity etc.. and we want the best for our little fishies. But, bottled water can have low kh.
I tested a popular brand in my area: Ph=7.2 gh<20 KH=20!!! once the buffer is used up by the process that daryl desribed; the ph will begin to fall and this would be very bad for your fish. Bottled water tastes so good because they filter out alot of minerals and along with it goes the carbonates (buffers) that keep ph stable.

I also test KH often because I read somewhere that kh levels in town water tend to fluctuate.
Kh is an important test, and sadly, the one that most fish stores in this area don't have. Some have never heard of it!!!

Water chemistry is an interesting subject !

Yeah, the instructions explained it but I can't remember where I put them. I guess I'll have to wait until I buy a new test kit to find out.

I test my tanks religiously too. It's the best thing. I always like to know what's going on so that I can make the necessary adjustments before a problem arises.

I know what you mean about the whole bottled water thing. It's got stuff in it to make it safe for us (or is it the stuff they take out?), but it's actually bad for the fish. Same thing with de-ionised water too. I looked it all up because my tap water isn't exactly top quality... Add this to what you and Daryl were saying about the buffers and you end up with very poorly, or dead fish.

Let me get this straight..the KH is meant to be high? Is that what you're saying? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I didn't sleep a wink last night and didn't even yawn once. This whole insomnia thing is driving me nuts!!


Thanks touchofsky. How did you calculate that? If there's a formula or something I'd love to know it

A high kh is good for stability. Like all good things; too much is not good. You have to go by what your test instruction indicate . The more informed you are the better you will feel.

Thanks. I guess I'd better start hunting for that leaflet then...Might take me a year or two though because I've got a mountain of fish stuff in my room and I've got the smallest room in the house

Some tests read in German Degrees of Harndness. Multiply that times 17.3 and you have the approximate ppm reading.

I usually aim for about 100ppm both kH and gH when building my water.

Thanks Daryl. What happens if either one drops too low? I know it's bad, but what physically happens to the fish? The whole kH/gH thing is fairly new to me. I've only just got my head around pH, ammonia, nitrates and nitrites, which cost me 3 fish and now I've got 2 more things to worry about