I am really wondering what is happening! My gold fantail, Star, looks like someone handled her with motor oil on their hands.

I know that when ammonia burns heal, they turn black. But I check my water weekly and have never had ammonia present in my tank. Last July, I used Bio-spira when I set it up and only had a tiny spike of nitrite, which caused Star to get some black on her but not as bad as this!!

My stats are:
*Ammonia and nitrite-0
*Nitrate-between 20 & 40
*20 gallon tank with two goldies--about 3-4" each
*Feed: Progold, peas, occasional daphnia, tubiflex worms
*Tank set up on July 1st, fish added on July 4th, 2003
*Weekly water testing, gravel vacuum and 25% partial changes using Aqua Plus--did 2 changes this week, will do another one today
*Two HOB filters, a Whisper 30 and a Penquin 125
*bubble wall
*I recently was feeding medigold, and adding Melafix for 2 weeks to treat a burst blister on Star's tail. Her tail looked sore and it has healed a bit but is definitely broken.

I stopped the medigold and melafix since Star was getting lethargic and looking pale. She perked up right away and now is very lively and hungry all the time (typical behavior!) but covered with black!

Here is a photo--she is much blacker, the flash on the camera seems to have made most of it disappear.

And here is one of her poor sad tail.

Awww I hope that she gets better soon. She is very pretty. I tried to look up various causes of black spots, but most just say healing ammonia burns, which we know this is not....or Black spot disease, I don't really know what that is, except they get it from snails and there is no OTC meds for it anyway, but I would not think it was that....hmmm I hope that someone here will have an idea for you.

Sorry I could not be of more help.

Jessica

Thanks Jessica. It helps to know that someone is listening and cares.

I just did a 25% water change. As I said before they are both very lively and have grown very much since July when they were only about an inch long.

Any ideas or thoughts are greatly appreciated!!!

Have you checked your ph? I have had a problem recently with differing ph levels in my tap water and my tank water, for an unknown (so far) reason. I would just double check ph to make sure.

I hope your fish are OK!

Laura

Thanks for replying, Laura. I need to buy a ph kit.

I never thought it was a problem here but since I don't know what the ph is--that could be what is causing the problem.

Besides, I like any excuse to go to my fav fish store.

Hi, just thought I'd pitch in here, I had the same with my fishy's after an ammonia spike, and they was healing. Do you think since you test your water weekly that just maybe, It spiked within 2 or 3 days and dropped without you knowing, and they are just healing from it? Thats what it sounds like to me.I know it was said but I was just thinking it spiked and dropped between you testing?hope the best

I just tested my ph and it is 8. I have no idea what it what before so I am still confused by this and need some help here.

I am doing some research on ph and found something that says changes in ph can damage skin and gills but it doesn't say how. Could it cause a burn?

And then the black is the healing? Star is still very active and begging to eat.

P.S.
She is even blacker now! It looks like soot. I will try to get another photo before I have to leave.

I dont know if this will help but I found this

http://www.petlibrary.com/goldfish/smudge.htm

I hope someone knows the answer to your question. I posted a similar one up as it is happening to one of my goldfish too. Her tail now has a black strip and around her head she has a mass of black marks. Had a close look and they arent parasites. When she was producing eggs she got herself stuck behind the waterfall in very shallow water. I thought she was dead and in my attempt to move her out a small pebble landed on her head. Since then she has been getting blaccker. She seems healthy enough, not as active as the others, but she's always been like that, well for at least the six weeks Ive had her. None of the other fish are having this problem and we have 35 fish between two ponds sharing the same water.

Think I found it. Makes sense for my girl anyway. The article below states that blackening can be caused one by chemical or traumatic irritant or injury to the surface of fish bodies. In momma's case being stuck behind the waterfall and a pebble drop on her head would no doubt have been traumatic enough to induce blackening.


Blackening: The Melanophore Migration - by Doc Johnson



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Orange Goldfish Develops Black Patches

"I bought a fish two weeks ago, and a few days after I bought it and carried it home, it started developing dark black patches on its body, especially on it's back and sides. After a week, the patches began to fade, now it's almost all orange again! What gives?"

ANSWER:
What you were seeing is called a "MELANOPHORE MIGRATION" - It's caused by *any* chemical or traumatic irritant or injury on the surface of the fishes' bodies.

Some good & very common causes include:

#1 cause: High Ammonia concentration in water
Low pH causes irritation
Fluke parasitism causes trauma
Ich or Costia infestation causes trauma

*HOWEVER*- the black color does not come until the irritant is REMOVED and the healing process begins.

Therefore, it is safe to assume that the fish *was* in bad water or under severe stress until you bought it, and the melanophore migration came and went as usual, starts as healing starts, comes on over two weeks, resides for a week or more, and clears within three to six weeks.


"Blackening and dark spots occurring on goldfish after some trauma to the skin will usually resolve in 3-6 weeks. It's interesting to note that the black and gold Orandas, as a side note; never hold the black." Doc Johnson

Wynkin my pH is 8 too, now test the pH in the water you use for the tanks, like out of the tap if you use tap water, the pH should be the same.

Jessica

That link that was posted suggests that all fish with "black smudge disease" be isolated and treated with medications - perhaps several times! (??!!) Goodness....

The article of Dr. EJ's is some of the best info you could get, and basically what I was going to say. The appearance of black is (generally) a sign of healing, and will likely get worse (more spots/streaks appear) before it gets better, as the different areas begin to heal. Don't worry about the black appearing or when it goes away (which can take weeks-months), just look for other signs of problems. I would suggest that it could have been the melafix that was the source of the marks you're seeing, since there is significant evidance that it can act as an irritant.

Typo allert: evidance = evidence

Gosh! allert=alert

My typing sucks tonight.

Happy, I think that you have hit it!

I am sure the Melafix was irritating Star--I put it in the tank daily for almost 2 weeks. It was during the second week that Star got lethargic and pale--her color was actually fading. I PMed you about her condition and you told me to stop the Melafix and medicated food.

I did a huge water change, went back to regular Progold and right away she perked up and was much happier. Now she is her lively, hungry self, just very SOOTY looking.

I think that she will be fine.

I don't think I will ever use Melafix again for anything!

I just tested the ph again:

tank: 7.5
tap: 7.4

I am not sure why it was 8 before but it is lower now.

Thank-you to everyone for your input in this.

Wynkin,I'm sorry I missed your post. I feel so bad, the one time I could be of help and I was in another state, I'm so sorry. About a year ago my fish looked just like yours, I was treating it for a little fin rot at the time with Melafix for about 16 days, she kept getting worse and worse. Stopped the Melafix because I figured she was a gone..er anyway. She started getting better. It took about a week for the black to start to leave her. I did put salt in the tank after I stopped the Melafix (don't know if it helped or not) but I kept it up in as large amounts as I was told was safe. Today she is her normal self. It took about 3 weeks total for her to come back to her normal self. Hope Starr is better soon, she will be in my fishy prayers. Hang in there Mom.

Ah, just in time for Christmas. Her tank isn't near the chimney, is it? Glad to hear Star has improved.

I have had more than a couple experiences similar to yours and kip's, which is why I am not a big fan of using Melafix for most things people tend to use it for. I haven't found fish to lose the black color any faster in salted water than in unsalted.

The "just in time for Christmas" is hilarious!

Now I know that Star will be fine since she just ate like a pig!!

Kip, I am really relieved to hear that you went through the same thing and your fish is fine. Thanks!!!

I had heard only good things about Melafix:
"natural", "tea-tree oil", "miracle", "safe", "restores fins safely"

According to the bottle it is a true miracle substance. So I didn't suspect it until both HappyGoldfish and Koko mentioned that it could be the Melafix that had caused Star's problem.

You know Nancy, its funny because I am a very big fan of "tree tree oil" I use it all the time. It will take the bigest, uglyest pimple away in 2 days. Makes sores heal in no time. I put it in my shampoo, face cream, foot cream, took the pain away from a snake bite once. I use it on my parrot, grandkids, hubby's feet when he is sleeping, but no, no not on my fish! Maybe it something else in it or maybe its too strong. I know I put it (tree tree oil on my parrot's sore from a pulled feather (full strength) and he thru up. Anyway I'm so glad to hear Star is eating like a pig and that she is better. Good job Mom!

Thanks Kip!

I may be imagining it but it seems that some of the black is starting to go. At least a bit of it on her body.

I'm glad to hear that the black is starting to go! That's good news.

Jessica

Star looks even better today.

The black on her body is disappearing but her fins are still very black.

Thanks, Jessica!

Hey guys So the treat ment would be to:
1 Treat with Salt?
2 Do about 30% water changes every other day? or not as much?
3 and just do not do anything else(ie don't treat with any meds?)

?

Cheers

hey, nancy, i have this problem too. my lovely gold and black bubble eye is turning almost completely black. it has been getting increasingly worse over the past few weeks and whatever i do i cant stop it. ph- 7.5, ammonia- 0. i will try and get a pic up in a min.

heres the before picture taken 2 months ago:

and heres the after pic taken a few days ago:

I think what is goig on with you is just color change in your fish? because it is only affecting that one fish(unless it is happening to your other fish as well) but the strange thing with "amonia burn" is that it affects most fish in the tank, like my girl firends 3 gf all have streakes starting, so i am thinking something is up? i don't know...

Cheers

my baby goldie has a sort of black outline to all its fins, no streaks on the body though and there have never been any ammonia problems in my tank.

Hi blinky,
I think maybe your fish is just changing color. The fact that it is happening over a period of a few weeks suggests this. The black that comes from healing appears quickly and has a "smudgey" look--like someone rubbed black ink or motor oil on the fish, the fins have streaks.

So, the black appeared on my fish suddenly, got worse over a period of a few days and now is completely gone. She is back to being orange. I never had ammonia either--she was somehow burned by the Melafix I put in the tank to heal her tail. Only one fish was affected, the other one was fine.

How are your fish doing otherwise? Do they still have the white patches? Maybe the black is healing from that? I am not sure if that is even a possiblity--someone with more experience with disease/healing would have to comment on that.

thats a very good thoery about the healing thing, never thought of that. other than that though they are doing great. you really have to look hard to see if there are any white bits on them now. while we're on the subject, how often can i repeat the salt dip?

I am not sure about salt dips, I have never needed to do one. You could start a new topic and ask that question. That would be a way to get some answers.