Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10
pH 6.8

Filter Fluval 2plus
20 gallon tank
just my celestial and bubble eye in tank.Both around 1 inch including tail
30% water change weekly
Water Conditioners - KB Safe Water,API Stress Coat
No new fish as fully stocked
Meds - Sera Baktopur/Baktopur Direct tank also salted to 0.3%
Food- KB Goldfish flake food,peas,brine shrimp,daphnia,bloodworm
Waterlife Vitazin fish vitamins given twice a week due to celestial not eating enough and to aid prevention of hole in the head.

Unusual Findings - Little black specs like grains of salt on head unsure if he has always had them as he has black marking on his tail.

Unusual Behaviour - Sitting on bottom started today,Unsure if he is pooping as haven't seen him worried he's starving to death despite him eating some food.He does become active when food goes in.

Blue, sorry to hear your fish isn't doing well.

Have you seen him eat, or are you unsure if he is eating at all?
Not sure what the black spots could be, have you had any ammonia problems lately?

Could you get a picture?

Considering the size of the fish, i dont think you should have salt in the tank. Salt for fish with a body length of less than 2 inches is really hard on the fishes kidneys. Do the fish have parasites Blue?

I watch him trying to eat sometimes he misses the food despite his mouth trying to get it.That is why I'm wondering if its nutrition related.I am considering placing him in my breeding net and feeding him in it that would give me better idea how much he actually is getting to eat.
I haven't had any ammonia probs recent plus I would have expected to see ammonia burns on my bubble eye as well and she is mainly white.I have done 2 water changes this week mainly due to his behaviour.
The spots are that small I wouldn't be able to get a pic you virtually have to be right on top of him to see them.The only other thing I have noticed is his breathing is slower than usual.

Tiny has taken a turn for the worse.He's now laying on his side most of the time.He swims every now and again.His tail has started at base of his body curving which I guess means he may not make it through the day.I have put in a couple of food pellets but he hasn't touched them.He's isolated in QT ,Temp increased to 80 F.
Can anyone help him

Haven't seen any parasites just trying to cover all my bases with not knowing what on earth is going on.With him being so still measured him hes 2inchs including tail.

So if you have him in quarantine is there no salt now? When treating fish for anything you have to be 100% sure before adding anything as meds can cause more harm than good especially if you mix them. Ive no experience of sera products so i think you should just go for clean water and just the dechlorinator.
Increasing the temperature is good but im afraid once fish curl over to the c shape it means the kidneys are shutting down and few if any come back from it.

He is in just clean water.He's still swimming every now and again but it isn't his back curving it just seems to be his tail.He's never grown much since I got him so it may be he was never destined to live long.I don't think he will make it.

hi blue
sorry to heare that and i hve very bad news aswell
of corse i might be wrong but it really sounds like something i had problems in the past with
it killed 5 out of 8 fish i didn´t knew kokos by that time so i haven´t reported anything
here´s how it happend
at first it was only one fish he was sitting at the bottom but would came up if i would feed them but he started to breath unusuall-slower and heavier it seemed,
then he stopped coming up and i recognised really littel dark spots on him, this was going on for a week and then he would lay on one side but he looked like a bridge because it was only his head and his tail that reached the ground.he died in this posititon and wouldent float or something!
that was only the first one the oders died exactly the same way but it took always a shorter time
in the end it took the disease to kill my healthiest fish only one and a half days!
i was treating them with sera bactopur and serabactopur direct and i feed them with sera baco tabs. the first ones were in QT but than it went on so rappidly that i had to tread the whole tank
but it didn´t really worked.
so i called sera in the end and spoke to theire doc and he didn´t knew what it was but he recomendet to use sera omnipur aswell.
i did so but at that time quite a lot were dead but the others woulden´t get it so i thing it helped.
i don´t know what caused the problems and why some fish were effected and some weren´t.
i treated the survivors with sera bactopur direct , sera bacto tabs for 3 weeks ,sera omnipur and a speciall sera salt i think it was called ectopur,
ok and here is why i´m posting this really
after one of the strongest fish died i opend him up(being my favourite that was the worset thing ever) and i found some really weired stuff
these littel spots were everywhere inside him(except his gills) it looked like the ones on the outside but a bit bigger
i made some pictures(they are not really good and it looks like a masacre because i didn´t knew what i was doing or looking for bu i did that because i wanted to post them somewhere so someone could help the next time) i´m gonna put them on the forum soon.
i was told that it hasn´t been tumors when i showed i sent them to sera but they haven´t said what it was either...

im NOT an expert but i think this shouldn´t been in him
sorry to give you that bad news but maybe someone can use it to help you...
sarah

Any chance of letting me see the pics or one of the spots on outside of fish to compare with what I am seeing.

yeah sure
i just have to wait till my boyfriend comes home becuse he has them on his computer.
so i think they should be on the forum in at least 4 hours, its going to be the first thing i do when he comes home i promise!!!

how is he doing? any changes?
sarah

Just been researching black spots.Could he have monogenetic flukes? He's still swimming around.

i don´t know i thought they are also in the gills and i havn´t seen anything in them.
sorry i whish i could help you more!
sarah

I am so sorry to hear this Blue Is there any change? How is your bubble eye?
Good wishes for you...

Still no change in his condition.At the moment I don't think he will make it.Tiny did poop and it was white.
Bubbles is fine and thriving.I have just totally scrubbed out the tank they shared and returned Bubbles to it as a precaution in case of flukes which is doubtful as there is nothing in the gills.

I suspect Tiny's trouble may be partly genetic.He has never grown nor put on any weight so maybe he is only destined for a short life.

There are definitely plenty of those kinda fish - we cannot tell these things when we buy them as babies, it is always an unknown .

Awww Blue, Im sorry to hear that your fishie is having such problem's right now, I do hope he will make it through this.

It sounds like you have prepared yourself for the worst, It's so true that there are so many fish out there that already have something going on with them and we don't know until it's too late. Your doing all that you can for him. I will be thinking of you today Blue!

I like to buy small fish and see them grow and as Trinket: says you just don't know what yu will get.

Remember the more hybridized the fish the greater the option for non-visible problems. If they're bred for color and specialized type, and they haven't had time to grow and show that something isn't right, you are gambling. I think it is worth it. We give them love and have them a part of our lives, and then if for some reason they can't make it, they go to the Great FishBowl In the Sky and are happy there.

Little fellow is trying to eat a pellet I have also noticed since isolating him his tail appears to be deformed which leads me to believe maybe his illness is relatated to a vitamin deficiency.
Hes still still on bottom most of time.

Bad news it looks like the growth he had when I first got him is cause of his illness managed to get a good look at his gills and theres a white growth inside same gill as last time it just seems to be floating around and is bigger than the last time but hard to spot unless viewed from above.Guess he does have lymphocystis like Sandy said he may have the last time.So all I can do is keep him comfy and alone as there is no cure

Is the white growth not attached to the gills Blue?

Its hard to see its inside the gill flap and from above you can just see a peice of it floating off his gill its attached inside.I'll try get a pic but its hard to see it.

I'm sorry to hear that Blue. I wish I could offer some help...

Upon closer examination of the gill it isn't a growth like he had before.I got my Dad to have a look and he says its the same color as his body.Could he have an abnormal gill caused by malnutrition ?

You are feeding your fish a healthy diet so its hardly malnutrition and the other fish would be the same. If its a growth in his gill the same as his body colour then it could just be a a small tumour or a wart.
Can you get a pic of it? Keep an eye on it and see if it grows.

I'm feeding him the same diet as all my goldies.The reason I think he may be malnourished is even putting one soaked pellet in with him he has a terrible time getting his little mouth round it.Most of it was still at bottom of QT when I used my Vac to clean it up this morning.
I have tried getting a pic but all I can get is gold body color I can't get a clear shot at all and I don't want to stress him with handling for the time being.
Good News is he is more active today.Still bottom sitting but not as much as before I don't think hes out the woods yet tho as Raichu went through a similer thing a couple of days before his illness claimed him.
If he recovers I plan on keeping him alone for a time to build him up and get some weight on the little guy.

Just curious, does he eat flakes?
Just wonder because I feed my fry flakes because their mouths are to small for the pellets.

He trys to eat flakes too but he always seems to miss them,Guess its one good reason not to breed celestials I watch him when he trys to eat and he virtually stands on his head to eat his food.Heres a pic of him trying to eat.

For the pic, it doesnt look like he isnt getting enough food, he has a good little belly on him. Have a look at the bit between his pectoral and his pelvic fins and see if it is caving in or not.
How long have you had him/think he has not been eating?

Is he improving now that salt is gone?

I hope he gets better, he's cute

Edit: There is a parasite that makes black dots isnt there? ..like ich.. but not..

Lucy the bit between his pelvic and pectoral fins is looking a little caved in.The little black spots on him he must have been born with as checking pics from when I first got him they were present then.
He is more active but still sitting on bottom just not as often.
I have had him 2 months and he never seems to gain weight or get larger.He has lost weight since that pic was taken hence my nutrition worry.

I wouldnt worry about his growth, 2 months isnt long. I've had a ranchu for a year now and she has only grown a very tiny bit.
Goldfish have different growth rates.

He could have worms.. those would cause him to loose weight even if he is eating, as the worms inside him eat all the food.. or something. (?)

I think half the trouble is his tank mate.She pushs him off the food all the time so he was getting very little in the 20 gallon they shared as I got her at same time as him and she is 3 times his size now they were both same size when I got them.Plus if it was worms surely both of them would have them.

You may have to feed him yourself. You will need a syringe and then you make your own gel food and put it in his mouth.

Sounds like a good plan that Sandy.How do I make my own gel food?

In the food section theres lots of recipes for you to try. You could add some fish vitamins and some med food to it and see how he goes with that. The med food you would need to soak and then mash.

Thanks Sandy One last question I just use the syringe and squeeze a bit out so he can grab it from the syringe?

Have him in a net and hold it with a bit of food out at his mouth and he should grab it from the end of the syringe. If not then it will take two of you, one to hold the net and the other to place the nozzle in his mouth

Hi Blue - I'm sorry your little guy isn't doing so well. Do you have some medicated food? If so, there's a neat way of making it into a gel that he can handle - it's nice and soft and the meds will still be in there.

- if you can, get a blender and slightly presoak the medicated food

- make sure the water you soak it in is dechlorinated because you want to keep it for the gel food

- add just enough so that the food is easily blended and then get some gelatin - use double what the box says so that the food doesn't break apart in the water

- then blend the medicated food and if you can, add some garlic juice which is a good tempter for eating

- then mix your gelatin in boiling water - not much, just enough to dissolve the gelatin

- then add it to your blended medicated food (an empty icecream container is a good tub to use)

- then start whisking or beating them together before the gelatin sets (I find a whisk to be the most affective way of getting a good consistency

- then place in the fridge to set

I agree with Sands, you may need to scoop him into a breeders net so he can get enough of the food but I would try the gel method (with garlic) first so that the meds are ingested otherwise the water will dilute it. It's worth a shot.

Just on his size, Percy - my celestial has grown very little since I got him. As a breed, they have a naturally slow growth rate so I wouldn't worry too much about that. But I would try and get some of this medicated gel food into him

Hi Blue, how are things going with the fish?

Laurie we had an accident see thread horrific accident all updated info is there.He's lost his eye

Gosh Blue, for some reason I didn't connect the 2 threads. Sorry. Should I close this one or combine them to cause less confusion?

Yes Laurie please close this one