I was hoping someone could help me, because no "expert" at any pet store can. My bubble eyed goldfish, "cheeks", started to develop a little black coloring on the bubble of his eye. This happened once before when we first got him, and it went away. This time, the black coloring began on the top of his head between his eyes, and within a few days has covered most of the top of his head. There is also black coloring on the edges of his fins, sides gills, and some scales here and there. He is swimming around and acting normal. He is eating and, from what I can tell, pooping normal. When I asked my petstore about it, they told me he was changing color from the temperature of the water, like a "suntan". Unable to be comforted by this explanation, I did some research and read something about "black smudge disease", supposedly caused by ammonia burns or something, but there wasnt much information about it, as it stated in the article there isnt much known about it. Therefore, there also wasnt much information about what to do to cure it. I dont know if this is dangerous, life threatening, or what, and I am so worried about cute little cheeks. I was hoping maybe someone knew more about this, and what to do. I never see it listed under goldfish ailments. Please help. In addition, I noticed a "blood like" red colored appearance of inflamation under his eyes on the inside. Is this a hemmorrage? Is it related?

Ammonia was high, but we have begun frequent water changes, and added ammo-chips to reduce it as of yesterday.
Nitrate also high-dont know what to do
PH went from 7.2(when this first occured) to 7.0 as of last water change
29 gallon tank for past 6-7 weeks
filter is whisper 30
Ussually change 30-40% of water once a week, but changed almost whole thing after this incident
5 goldfish in tank, one is 3 inches, the others about 1-2 inches. Also a betta, and 3 neons very attatched to goldfish
Have always used ammo-lock occasionally, tap conditioner... right before this happened began adding salt to keep fish healthy
Green goldfish flakes, sinking pellets, and goldfish shaped color enhancement and nutrient pellets...occsional tropical flake crunched and added
I dont notice any unusual behavior, he habitually eats at the bottom most of the time, but he is swimming about fine.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP

Black coloration is usually ammonia burns that are healing, so as I understand it, in theory, black is a good thing because it means they're on their way to recovery. Keep that ammonia down!

It strikes me that there's maybe too many fish in that tank, so the ammonia may continue to be a problem. Can you get a bigger filter? On my 35 gallon, we use an Eheim 2217 that we've had the best luck with as far as keeping the tank at optimum numbers.

How often are you feeding them? Both high nitrates and high ammonia can be caused by over-feeding.

As for that blood red inflamation INSIDE the lens of the eye, when I see that in Desi, its usually a sign the water quality is off, and clears up within a day of getting the water back in sync. That for me, is often the first sign that Desi isnt feeling well. I've had Desi for almost 14 years, and noticed this every time he's been sick.

Hi goldfishmom,welcome to the forum.
As Tinker said even without you answering all the questions up above,it does sound like your Bubble eye suffered some acute ammonia burns and now that black is showing,it seems to be trying to heal.
As mentioned,you are quite overstocked.If that's something that you can't quite change immediately,then the only other options would be to up your water testing /gravel vac's/and water changing to more often.
Although normally we say to get filter's that filter 10 x's your tank size-which would be your size filter,I have often found that overstocked tanks need an even bigger filter,or a second filter added on to help with the bio-load.

How long has this tank been set up?
What were your actual #'s on Ammonia/Nitrites/Nitrates? On a cycled tank,ammonia and Nitrites should always read zero, any other number even if it's low,can be dangerous,and the safest place for your Nitrates to be is under 20ppm's.
Ammonia is deadly to fish,and probably one of the top killer's,so your fish is very lucky to have survived through it all. Any time that you test water and get any kind of reading for ammonia and Nitrites,water changes need to be done with treated and matched temps water until those params are correct.
On a side note,I really would look into another tank for the betta and the tropical fish that you're keeping with the goldies.That may be working for now,but it can bring on future problems for sure.
How's your fish doing today? .

Thank you both for your considerte feedback. Cheeks seems to be active and ok. The black coloring on his head/eye area has lightened a bit, and receded a tiny bit as well. however, for some reason his tail has become darker black in the areas in which the pigmentation was apready appearing. Would you know if this is more healing occuring? A pet store employee said it also could be the actual color of the fish changing, but we purchased him emtirely gold.
As far as the amount in which we feed them, we have indeed lightened the load of food we give each day. I like the idea of a second filter. Lately we have not done any water changes, as the pet store expert instructed us to leave the tank alone. We had been changing the water 25% before our cycle had been completed, and perhaps this was why the ammonia was not in control? Now, we added a jump start bacteria and stress zyme to the water. We had it tested the past few days to find that the ph is good...7.0/7.2, and the ammonia is zero. I am hoping that means cheeks will be getting better in his more stable environment. HOWEVER<, the nitrates were off the charts at past 5.0. We were told this is because we are in the middle of our tank cycling (because we had to start over after improperly setting up the tank). We were also told that there was nothing really we could do to bring down the nitrates, but wait for it to come down natrually on it's own. I added some salt, and a few days later it is lightly purple, at least on it's way down. Im wondering if anyone would know, are the petstore experts correct in telling me to let the water alone, even if the nitrates are high and dangerous ? Is there nothing else to do but wait for 4 or so more weeks until the tank is cycled? The pet store owner told us also that we may loose some fish during this process which I am not willing to let occur. What do you suggest? If the nitrates are on thier way down, and there is no ammonia present, is the tank ok for the fish? DOes it sound as if cheeks is on his way to being better? Thank you again.

Also, how do I know the red inflamation has gone away? When I look into the bubble eye sack, it still seems red in there, is tht infalmation? Is that something normal that I hadnt noticed before? What color should the inner part of the bubble eye be? If the readings on the water are ok, shouldnt the inflamation go away? Sorry for all the questions, but I am new at all this ....thank you!

Dont take just MY word for this, there are others much smarter about this stuff than I am. But when MY nitrates are that high and when I can TELL my fish are sick and that's the ONLY explaination (in other words, when ammonia, nitrites and ph is okay), I'd change the water, at LEAST 10% at a time til i get it down, cycle or no cycle. DONT change the filter where your cycle is going on, and dont forget to use Prime or something to de-chlorinate.

Until you can get the overstocking situation down or an extra filter, you'll have to do more frequent water changes anyway. Do you have a Python to make it easier?

The biggest concern is keeping the ammonia down. I'm pretty sure the black marks you're seeing is ammonia burns healing. Keep an eye on that first and foremost, and add one teaspoon of aquarium salt per gallon to the water. (note: if you change water, remember to only replace the salt to equal what you took out. so if you take out about 10 gallons, only put about 8 teaspoons back in)

Is the red you're seeing in the eye itself, or in the bubble UNDER the eye? Any chance of getting a picture?

When cycling a tank,you have to change out water-I don't care what the "fish people" say.When you are cycling,and your Ammonia/Nitrites are that high---unless you change out water and lower those number's ,they will either kill your fish,or cause long term health problems with fish.If you left the tank cycle all that time,and left it alone--chances are that you wouldn't have any fish.
Changing out water to get those levels down may make the cycle processing a bit longer,but it will put your fish through less stress and harm.
Any time that you see normal fish turning black,you can always count on Ammonia burn.Black is the most unstable color in Goldfish,so you don't normally hear of an all orange fish turning black.
Did you mean that your Nitrites were 5?Adding salt will help ease the stress of your fish dealing with them,but it won't get rid of them.Water changes must be done in order to get them under control.I would change out water until I got it under 0.5 myself.Anything higher to me is far to iffy.
Just for me to be totally clear,is this tank completely cycled?Are you having readings for Nirites and Nitrates?
Sorry,there's a few things that are confusing me here. I was rereading your post,and I'm not sure.
As for the fish with the blood in his eye,I had a Black Moor that got that in poor water quality.It took quite a while,but with pristene water,it did eventually go away.You just have to watch that it doesn't go into a secondary infection.
Anyway,long story short,if your tank is cycled,your readings should be Ammonia-0/ Nitrites-0/and Nitrates should read under 40 ppm's(under 20 is even more ideal)

Again, thank you both for your help. I totally agree, I couldn't believe the guy at the store wanted me to just let my fish "deal with " the water. Im monitoring the tank water, to clarify, my ammonia read 0, my ph 7.2, and nitrates read slgithly below 5...rather a light purple, so it is at the top or dangerous part of the scale. This was two days ago. My little "cheeks" seems to be getting rid of the black little by little, so that is good. I will test it tommorrow again to see if the nitrates went down a little more (I am currently mid-cycle with my tank). The problem is I dont know how the nitrates would go down because they dont do so naturally, or do they? does the increasing bacteria get rid of nitrates as time goes on? Should I change the water due to nitrates, or only if the ammonia gets too high? I did add salt as of a week ago when I first posted, that brought it down from dark purple to light purple on the nitrates scale. Im not sure, but do I add more salt to keep bringing it down? I believe I read it is bad to add more unless I change some of the water? Im aiming at getting a second filter this weekend after being paid. Does a partial water change become the only way to lower nitrates at this point?
The reddness in the eye hasnt changed but perhaps a bit in the past week, and to clarify it is in the bubble, underneath the eye, about where a human would have "bags under their eyes", that is wher I saw the reddness, is that normal or is it a sign of not feeling well? Does it completely go away?
Also, would you know if algae is bad, and how much is too much in a tank? It seems to grow back right away, and Im n ot sure if cleaning ot or keeping it is good or bad at this point in the cycle.
Thank you. How many goldfish does each of you own?
Sincerely, Cathy

For me, I change the water if the nitrItes are up, but up to 20 is okay (NO higher) for nitrAtes.

Yeah, the only way to get numbers like ammonia, nitrAtes and nitrItes is changing the water out that I know of.

for salt, I keep mine at one teaspoon per gallon. When I change out 10 gallons from a 30 gallon tank, i replace 10 teaspoons. Dont just add salt without making a change. I killed a fish by mistake early on by adding salt when he got dropsy, and I didnt know better any better.

LOL I have a LOT of tanks and goldies. From Desi for 14 years (more luck than skill I assure you ) to Hermie a deformed Moor I rescued from a pet shop last year. In total, I have 14. Was 15 til last nite

I also have a tank with Dwarf Puffers, and another with Glass Catfish!

For me, redness in or under the eye is usually a sign of bad water quality. It SHOULD go away as you get the water quality under control !

Hello again,
thank you for your advice. Im sorry to hear you have lost a fish Thanks to your advice my fishes black smudeges have appeared to go away, except for the tail, or is that natural color accents? But ofcourse, another problem...our place of residence is changing after all of this cycling the tank and all. We are moving about 30 to 40 minutes away. How do you transport the tank, and fish saftely and correctly? Will they be ok? Thank you again it is very nice of you to take the time to answer my questions. I also think it was very noble of you to rescue the deformed moor from the pet shop. I wish I could adopt every fish I see lol! But Im still learning lol.
sincerely, cathy

Thank you Dev's as well for all your advice. How many fish do you have?

goldfishmom, I'm still a little confused by your NitrItes and NitrAtes. Are you sure you have them the right way round?

The reason I ask is that my nitrIte test kit is varying colours of purple, and my NitrAte kit is varying colours of orange and red. It may be that your kit is just different, but you mentioned that your nitrAtes were off the chart at 5. 5 is not off the chart for NitAtes, it's actually very low. 5 is off the chart for nitrItes though and very dangerous.

Are you testing for ammonia, nitrItes and nitrAtes? could you check which way round they are?
How are your levels doing by the way?

Not changing the water and leaving the tank alone whle cycling with fish in it is the worst advice I have ever heard. I know lfs' often give bad advice but that is appalling.

btw, how are your fish doing now?

Hi Cathy,glad to hear that your fish are doing somewhat better.
As per your question,I think right now I have 15 tanks up and running.
I have to say that I'm wondering if you're confusing Nitrites with Nitrate number's too.Do you happen to have the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals test Kit?If you do,that's the Nitrites that you are talking about.
For a half hour trip,I would get a couple of 5 gal. brand new buckets to transport the fish.Actually I put fish in one bucket---gravel/ornaments in another with some tank water to cover them,and then the filter in its own container covered with tank water.I don't know if there's a simpler way-I just know that this was a good way for me. Never try and move a tank with gravel in it or any small amount of water as it is definately not safe.
Has your tank actually finished cycling yet?That would be Ammonia-0,Nitrites-0,NitrAtes under 40 (under 20 ppms even more ideal)
Because you are not moving to far,you can actually carry out the move without putting too much of a bump in your cycle.

Hello Lak and Devs,

Wow 15 tanks! Thank you for your advice on the move. Im not sure Im confusing the colors or numbers, see, we dont actually have a test kit...I just bring a sample of my water every few days to the fish store and they test it for me. Yesterday, My ammonia still read 0...my PH was a little acidic on the green side so I have to add a pinch of baking soda I was told. However, when they tested the nitrates they exclaimed, "whoa", as in, they were very high and dark purple...but they didnt give me an actual number or solution as to how to lower it except small water changes. Therefore, I dont think we are more than 75 % through our cycling yet. I know the nitrates are dangerous, so we wil take care of that tonight, as well as the baking soda. I believe then, that the number is 5, rather than .5. Do you know of any other suggestions for the nitrates? Salt hasnt worked, at first the purple was lightening but now it is back to dark purple. What do you guys think? Thank you
Cathy

My fish seem to be doing fine, my larger goldfish, a comet, we call him "fishy"...he loves to poke at the suction cups that hold the bubble making tubes in the tank. He bends in all positions until he rips them off the tank walls! he's adorable. Then we have a black moor,"tickles", who is becoming a golden black now, my "cheeks" who is recovering from the black smudges, "bubbles", a red headed lion head, "kisses", I forgot what type he is called but he has a cute round belly, orange and white colors, and orange lips. IN addition, (I know but he loves the goldfish) we have a blue male betta, we call him, "betta", how original. HOw many fish do you have Lak? I hope we can afford a bigger tank soon to minimize the problems with the amount of fish we have, because I love them each so much

Purple on the test strips are usually the NitrItes,so this is still confusing.If that is the case,I think you'lll find that even though you are trying to cycle,the best thing that you can do for your fish is continue to do more frequent water changes. My fish are so use to me doing that,that they love them.They look a 100% happier as I'm doing them.
I'll tell you though,please...invest in a drop test kit.They are the most accurate that you can obtain.The strips are nice in emergencies,but are not as accurate as you would think.Big Al's online has the Aquarium Pharmaceutical Kit for 12.99 + shipping of course.When I order from them,I always get my Prime and such from there because most of their prices are the lowest,and you don't feel as bad for paying the shipping costs.
I am glad to hear that your fish are feeling better,and I hope that they continue to do so. They sound lovely,so you'll have to post pics.

Hi Devs,
Yes I should get a test kit. I think this weekend. I dont mind doing the water changes so long as my babies are ok I would post thier pics except I can hardly keep up with them while they swim...I snap a photo and thier on the other side of the tank by then! When I come home I put my face close to the tank and make kisses, and all of the fish gather in a huddle where my face is...so cute! Do your fish have any names? what kind do you have?
take care,
cathy