i just set up my tank again after having cleaned out the whole thing. it's been running for 9 days now, and i WAS planning on doing a fishless cycle, but about 2 days into the cycle i got impatient and got 3 goldies... i think one is coming down with dropsy now. i should have waited...

* Test Results for the Following:
Ammonia Level? between .25 and .5 ppm
Nitrite Level? so far 0
Nitrate level?0
Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? 7.4 - 7.6
Ph Level out of the Tap? about 6.8 - 7.0
* Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? 29 gal. and has been running for about 9 days now
* What is the name and size of the filter/s? penguin 280
* How often do you change the water and how much? my tank has just started cycling, and i do about a 25-30% water change depending on how high the ammonia gets... i usually try to keep it between .25 and .5 ppm. it has been about .5 the majority of the time these past few days.

# How many fish in the tank and their size? 3 goldfish, 1 fancy, and 2 redcap orandas about 1 1/2 inch
# What kind of water additives or conditioners?i use prime and aquarium salt at about a .1% salinity
# Any medications added to the tank?i have just quarantined einstein, and added jungle labs fungus clear... i purchased mayacin 2 (sp?) but have not used it. the quarantine tank is also at .1% salinity.
# Add any new fish to the tank?all 3 fish were new, and i am guilty of not quarantining them before adding them to the tank. i know this is an excuse, but i chose the 3 healthiest looking goldfish that i liked and skipped the quarantine process.
# What do you feed your fish?presoaked pro-gold
# Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt",
bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?bloody streaks that were very small to begin with which i thought was due to the increasing ammonia, then i noticed the edges of the tailfins getting kinda whitish (which i thought would go away with water changes), then today when i got back from work, i could not find einstein. i thought he had died but i couldn't find a body. he was hiding in one of the plants, and i noticed he had a whitish look to his wen, and he had one red fuzzy spot on his tail. it has further progressed to a couple maybe 3 or 4 small red fuzzy spots on his tail.
# Any unusual behavior like staying
at the bottom, not eating, ect..?he is not eating and kinda just sits at the bottom of the tank. his dorsal fin isn't completely down, nor does it twitch, but it is not in the fully erect position. the last i observed this morning when he was still with the other two, he was still swimming around, and he ate this morning with the other two.

If theres no pineconing/body swelling then its not dropsy.. it kinda sounds like a bad infection, like septicaemia.
Although I think you'd probably want to treat that in a similar way to dropsy. Do you have any med food?
If it is bacterial I'm not sure you need salt, so I'd change 100% of the QT water (unless it is fungal, do that anyway to get the fungus clear out) and start with the maracyn2.

..but I'm not totaly sure on any of that, so I hope someone else comes along!

Lucy's right, if there's no scales standing out then it's not dropsy but it does sound like he's ailing.

The first thing to do is try to make sure the ammonia never gets over 0 - especially with a little sick one... You can add Prime to bring the ammonia down but keep retesting it until you see a firm 0. I would also go with just the Maracyn. Is there any way you can get some medicated food?

Some fish are sensitive to ammonia at any level and it will stress them out badly so hopefully if you can reduce the level, it may help. The water will need to be perfect while medicating anyhow

well i guess i forgot to add, but the scales behind his gills don't look normal. i can't definitively say that they ARE pineconing, but the sure don't look like they're smooth agasint his body.

as for the medicated food, i have metro-meds. i put a couple in yesterday, but he didn't seem too interested. this morning however, he seemed more active, and he had a bit of colored poo along with some stringy white poo. which means i guess he did eat some during the night.

i have maracyn II, but if need be, i can go and get maracyn today after work.

i wasn't able to test the water this morning, but i did about a 75% water change because my quarantine tank is small. i'll test the water when i get home and if recommended, i'll do a 100% water change and switch medications.

the red spot things haven't been multiplying or anything, the smaller ones seem to have gone away, or i jsut didn't see them clearly this morning. the first one taht i noticed however seems a bit bigger.

i'll update as soon as i get home and can get the tests done.

thanks for your help!

Okay so we have red fins, are there red streaks under the front fins or any were else on the body?

Whats the temp hun?

So you have some aquarium salt?

Also can you get a good pic of this fish for me??

most of the red streaks are on the tail fins, but the front fins have a very slight pinkish tinge to them. or they did last night. i didn't really get to sit down and examine him thoroughly this morning.

i have aquarium salt, and as of this morning, i upped the salinity from .1% to .15% i plan on bringing that up to .2% today after work when i do the next water change.

i don't have a thermometer in my tank, but i will measure the temp today as well when i get off of work. i'm in arizona, and whenever i change my water, the water is usually fairly warm to my touch, so i didn't think i would need a heater. i will check when i get home though just to make sure.

i will try to get a picture of the fish as well.

::edit::
koko i also forgot to add in my previous post i mentioned there are these little fuzzy red spots on his tail along with the streaking.
::edit::

thanks for all the help!

the other two in the main tank are doing very well. the tank is still cycling, and i have not observed any suspicious behavior of them.

should i go ahead and purchase maracyn just in case? right now the fish is still in jungle labs fungus clear water, but if advised, i will do a 100% water change and just add aquarium salt until we figure out what's going on.

thanks again for all the support and advice!

ok here are some photo updates. i'm more and more convinced that it's dropsy.


here's a pic of his whole body. you can't really see it clearly, but there's a red spot on his tail fin that is fairly noticable.


from the front view, you can sorta see the white cloudiness on his wen, and those things that look like "nostrils" or where those pom poms grow on those pom pom goldfish... it's starting to turn a greyish color.



another clearer side view of the pineconing, greyish "nostrils", and the red spots on the tail fin



the red dots on the tail fins, and you can sorta see some stringy white poo and ragged fins.



i think this is definite pineconing.

what should i do? i did a 100% water change, i haven't added anything to the water yet.

i have:

aquarium salt
maracyn
maracyn II
jungle labs fungus clear
metro-meds medicated food
and prime

i looked for my aquarium thermometer, but i really have no clue where i packed it from when i moved back from texas. i'll go get another one though. *sigh* einstein hasn't gotten worse, but he doesn't look like he's gotten any better either. if anything i'd say the pineconing might have progressed a little more.

thanks again for your time and help!

i forgot to add, and i'm not sure if it makes any difference, but when i purchased einstein last week, he had some missing scales, but i didn't think it would be a problem. would this have added any additional immune deficiency?

He's looking a bit poorly which leads me to wonder what's caused this? Is this precipitated by parasites? Before running any maracyn, I would start treating what could be the underlying cause - parasites. Are you able to get any paraiste clear? It also contains an antibiotic so I would start with this treatment. Red streaking/spots can be from both bacteria as well as parasites. Before starting anything though the first step is making sure the water is perfect - he'll need his strength to fight

Is there any scratching at all?
Any yawning?
Appetite still good?

Please post back soon

i really don't know what the cause might be, and i guessed it might be stress induced because he was in my main tank which i just started to cycle again. i bought him with missing scales because despite the missing scales, he looked healthy. he started to get worse as the ammonia started to rise.

i don't know whether or not he already had parsites or bacterial infections before he came to me. and as i mentioned before, much to my regret, i was impatient and did not quarantine them. all three came from the same store, and all three were in put in the main tank which i started cycling over labor day weekend.

but to answer your questions, he doesn't scratch, not very much yawning, but he does have a loss of appetite. i've been trying to feed metro-meds, but he doesn't really eat much. he constantly has a string of white "poo" trailing behind him. today his wen looked like it was deteriorating even more. he's still able to swim around, though he ususually just hides in a corner till i walk by.

i'm so sad to say that einstein passed away sometime today while i was at work. *sigh* may he rest in peace.

I'm so sorry Emily I think he may have had some internal problems especially if he was training white poop and not eating. I think he came to you with these problems and the worst part is, it's hard to trace his history... you can only go off what is visible. Sometimes it works but at other times, we lose them

He's out of pain now and I hope you feel better soon

i think it is especially horrible because i specifically looked for healthy looking fish, but i guess looks can be decieving. makes me wonder about the other fish since einstein was the healthier looking of the orandas, and if he was sick i wonder how the others were. *sigh*, well i guess i'll just focus on the other two.

thanks for all your help and guidance guys.

I'm sorry