Well I feel pretty bad. Freckles is lying on his side with another bout of sbd. I promised I would get around to trying to make gel food but never did. Is there any good gel food available for purchase (preferably in stores but online if necessary) for folks like me with good intentions but short on time? Freckles and I would appreciate your recommendations. Thanks.

I'd suggest the Hikari frozen daphnia (not freeze-dried). That was the main food that seemed to get my fish back on track, and I think it would act similarly to a gel food. Also, I've seen this HBH super-soft spirulina pellet at petco, but not at petsmart, and that's a totally awesome food that I've been feeding to all my fish for about 6 months now (for 1 of 4 feedings a day).

Thanks. I can take a look at my lfs when I go tomorrow. Do you still feed the frozen daphnia and if so how does it fit into your overall feeding plan? Also I have tried spirulina in flake form (soaked) and it did not help Freckles sbd problems. I'll take a look for these pellets - do you need to soak the pellets?

While I was "treating" the sbd with daphnia, it was the primary food, served several times a day. My fish were really hungry and eating up every last bit, and that was really good since the daphnia is so small it can make the water funky, if you're not careful. Now that I think about it, I was also turning off the filtration during meal times, to make sure the daphnia stayed on the floor of the tank.

I'm not really feeding much daphnia to my fish right now. Currently I'm feeding frozen bloodworms 2x/day, Hikari Saki goldfish pellet 3x/day and HBH super-soft spirulina 1x/day, and frozen brineshrimp 2x/week.

No, that HBH super-soft spirulina (man, that's a long title to keep writing . . .hbhsupersoftspirulina . . .) does not need to be soaked in any manner whatsoever. But, that HBH company makes lots of different stuff, and that super-soft pellet is in a class of it's own, and it's the only product of their's I've used, so that no-need-to-soak statement only applies to this one product.

There is a guy selling that HBH product on ebay, and it is a rather good deal. If you can find locally, try it!!

Is poor Freckles a red-cap oranda? I thought I remembered reading that somewhere.

Well good news is that I found the HBH super-soft spirulina and the Formula One frozen gel food. My lfs did not have frozen daphnia but I do have frozen bloodworms (that I use to feed to my ADFs) - would these be exepcted to be similar to frozen daphnia? I also have shrimp pellets that seem to be tolerated better than Progold although still not great and peas (which were also not tolerated well last time I tried them). My job now is to figure out which combinations of these foods works best and in what amounts and when. I am not sure how to go about this but will give it a shot.

Freckles is a calico fantail ~ 2inch long not counting his tail. He is pretty lethargic these days and I am still not sure if this is due to poor nutrition due to sbd or something else. His tankmate is Nugget, also a fantail about 2 in long. Any suggestions of how much of each food to feed? How many of the HBH super-soft spirulina pellets would you give at one time? Also since I never fed bloodworms to my fish - how much of a cube would you give them? Any suggestions on which foods to give when would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again!

I'm thinking that those two fish together should be able to eat a whole cube of bloodworms per feeding, maybe 2x/day. And that HBH pellet, hmmm, probably around 3-4 of those per fish 1-2x/day. Just some suggested starting points, of course. Personally, I would avoid any pellets completly, for the time being. But I think that formula one would be good every other day, or so.

Well, I saw the thread about your sbd in the disease section, and I really hope such a dramatic change in diet might just be what these little guys need.

Hmm, I wish I saw your post about avoiding pellets totally for now beforeI tried the HBH super-soft spirulina. I only gave 1 pellet to each fish (since it was something new) and both seemd to enjoy it. Nugget was fine afterwards but within 2 hours Freckles was as bad as I have ever seen him - completely flipped over at the top of the tank. Freaked me out! He is ok now after fasting overnight and I am thinking of going back to the soaked shrimp pellets (the thing he seems to do best with) for the next couple of days before trying something else new.

I am so confused because it seems that with him the things that are "supposed to" work best for sbd are actually the worst. Both peas and spirulina cause him to totally flip while progold causes him to get floaty. Any ideas why? Does this mean that the frozen blood worms might have the best chance of working since it is not a "pellet food"? I am trying to figure out what to try next - the bloodworms or the frozen Formula One gel food. I wish I understood why this is happening so I would know better how to help. Any more ideas?

Yikes! Well that's lame that the hbh doesn't help any. Actually, when I said to avoid pellets, I meant pellets besides the hbh. But golly, you should defiantly feed what makes them respond the best. How did the bloodworms work out?

Well I held off on trying the frozen bloodworms to fast for 24+ hours. I thought it best to clear out his system after the problems with the hbh spirulina. I just gave them the bloodworms now and they absolutely loved them . It was the first time my 2 fish actually pushed each other out of the way to get at the food! It was so much fun to feed it to them - even Nugget let me get really close to him (usually only Freckles hand feeds). I don't know how he will do on this but I sure hope he does well. For one they seem to enjoy the bloodworms so much and second - I am running out of ideas for what else to try.

Keep your fingers crossed - I'll keep you posted.

yeah, you can buy gel food. i just bought some a few days ago.

GlassGoldfish, I am happy to say that so far things look good with the frozen bloodworms . My fish loved them and there was no obvious sbd issues as with the progold, omega one, peas, hbh spirulina, etc. In fact I do not think I noticed any floatiness at all (although I am afraid I might jinx something by saying this). I only gave each fish about 1/4 of the cube since it was the first time and I was a bit nervous given how unpredictable Freckles seems to react to foods. I am going to try again today and hopefully it will go as well. Thanks you so much for your advice

Fuzzy Peaches - what kind of gel food did you buy and how much and how often to you give it? I have seem Formula One which is a frozen food but haven't tried it as yet. Is that what you use?

That's awesome news! Although those bloodworms are not a "complete" diet, I think it's fine to feed those exclusively for afew days, but they are definalty going to need some type of vegetable matter in their diet. Let's hope these bloodworms get all those guts inside your goldfish working right so when you give them something green it will go thru ok.

Well again we are thinking alike! I also thought that after 3 days of bloodworm meals (with no sbd symptoms after them at all ) I should give my fish something green. So I tried giving them just 1/4 of a pea and within 1 hour Freckles was copmpletely upsidedown at the top of the tank (the same as after the hdh spirulina pellet). It seems like now the after-effects of the peas are even more severe than before. It is almost like a kid who can only eat fast food and no veggies

So now I need to look into something else in addition to the bloodworms - they can't eat only these - right? The best tolerated of all the pellets is Wardley's well- soaked shrimp pellets so I will mix these in as well. Also I think I will try the Formula One gel food. I am not sure how Freckles will do on this or if this is even considered "healthy food". Any other ideas?

I have a floaty ryukin that can only eat Wardley shrimp pellets, soaked. Any other type of commercial food makes her float. She has been on the shrimp pellet, along with blanched zucchini,for 18 months now and is very healthy. She did turn orange, from white, though

Oh, now I recall that you did tell me about the zucchini when you mentioned the Wardley shrimp pellets a while back. Sorry, I guess I was so focused on the shrimp pellets (which work better than any other pellet or flake food that I tried) I spaced on the zucchini! I am going to buy some today and try it. How much would you suggest (pea size bit?) and is boiling in a little tank water (like with frozen peas) ok (I am not quite sure what blanched means)? Wish me (and Freckles) luck!

Does your floaty guy tolerate peas or spirulina? Freckles did worse with those two than anything else so I can't understand why zucchini would work when peas did not (but then again there is a lot that I can't understand ). By the way, have you ever tried the Formula One gel food? I was hoping that a gel-based food might help.

That formula one (if they do well on it) will provide a broader spectrum of nutrients than the bloodworms, as bloodworms are basically all protein. Even if they're loving that formula one, they will probably be needing something from the veggie aisle. Maybe zucchini is the answer, or a leafy green . . . let us know!

Golly, everyone has such great luck feeding peas, and now I've found that hbh for myself, this makes for a very unique problem. I wonder if there is some type of 100% algae snack out there?

blanched means "steamed/boiled briefly"

Yes, blanching just means "lightly cooked". I take a small zucchini, and cut it in chunks. I cut the zucchini lengthwise, in quarters, then cut the quarters into about 2" pieces. Then I cook in the microwave in a bit of water until it is soft. Then I pull out the soft centre part and feed. For a smallish fish, I would feed a couple of pea sized bits to start and see how the fish reacts. You can freeze the cooked zucchini and then just thaw when needed.

In my other tanks that have bottom feeders, I feed the whole chunk of zucchini, with the skin. The bottom feeders love the skin, whereas the goldies love the soft centre part.

My floaty ryukin cannot eat peas, or any type of spirulina food. I haven't found anything that she can tolerate other than zucchini and shrimp pellets. She used to be able to tolerate a homemade gel food, but even that makes her float now (it contains peas).

Good luck and please let me know how it goes

Well I am so happy . I tried the zucchini as suggested and it looks like Freckles can tolerate it. I just gave a small amount so far but it was at least as much as the peas I gave which made him flip over within an hour. It has been several hours and so far so good. Oh, and thanks for the tip about freezing it after it is cooked - otherwise I am sure lots would be wasted (even my huge snail can't eat all that )

So it seems that so far Freckles can tolerate small amounts of the shrimp pellets, frozen blood worms and zucchini. I am thinking then of giving a couple of soaked shrimp pellets daily in the AM and then supplementing in the PM with small amounts of either zucchini or blood worms (on alternating days). Does this sound like a good plan?

I still want to try that Formula One Frozen Gel Food since to me it seems like a good mix of protein (shrimp, clams) and veggies (spinach, kelp) but for now I am thrilled to have a few things that Freckles can tolerate.

Thanks so much for your suggestions of the Wardley's shrimp pellets, bloodworms and zucchini . I had been banging my head against the wall for so long with the Progold, peas, etc - all the things that were "supposed" to work. I guess it really goes to show that all fish, like all people, are different.

I am so glad that you have found a diet that Freckles can tolerate Your plan sounds like a good one. I think that will be a good variety for him and he should do well. My ryukin, Morgana, has done very well on a similar diet for almost 2 years now. Right now she is begging me for her shrimp pellets (I have her tank right near my computer desk).

I agree, all fish are different, and sometimes it takes some trial and error to sort things out!

Freckles has been fine for a few days but last night he flipped over again. I am not sure why - he had blood worms in the AM (he and Nugget shared a half cube and devoured it in 2-3 minutes). He seemed fine all day and then in the PM I gave a couple of the soaked shrimp pellets and within an hour he flipped! He has not done this with the shrimp pellets before. I am wondering if it could be too much food (even though the food is usually tolerated)?

Touchofsky does the amount of shrimp pellets you give make a difference (ie. even though Morgana can tolerate them in general if you give too much food does she still float?)? Can I ask you how many shrimp pellets you give, how often and how big is Morgana? The pellets are pretty big (compared to Progold) so I usually only give 2-3 well soaked ones (10-15 min) for my 2 fish (2 in fantails).

I am thinking about changing to either only feeding once/day or giving only pellets one day and alternating with bloodworms in the AM/zucch in the PM (for a combo of protein/veggie) the next. What do you think?