I have 2 goldfish in a 10 gallon tank. I set up the tank in early December and added the first fish (fantail I believe) in late December. In April I added another goldfish (suppossed to be a fantail as well), but it is still very small (but has grown a lot). It's name is Baby, and the other, bigger, older fish is Penny. Penny is fine in everyway, but Baby has some problems. She has what appears to be a cut in her side (not positive if it could be an ulcer). It is red in the very middle and then her normal gold color around it. It may have been caused by the tank getting bumped (have tried to make sure this won't happen anymore--first time it's been bumped) and maybe she hurt itself on a plant or something (don't think they are sharp). Penny sometimes chases Baby at feeding time (she's a big pig), but she isn't that bad, she was way worse for about a month after we got Baby, and now pften seems to try to take care of Baby.
Aside from this, I am wondering if she has developed fin rot. One side of her tailfin is slightly shredded, but there isn't realy any white on it or red veins. Is it maybe just starting? I believe Peeny had this before and it went away on its own. Baby isn't swimming as fast or as much as normal (sits at the bottom a lot more) but still eats fine.
I usually do a partial water change every week, and a filter (carbon) once a month, although I sadly admit I did it yesterday for the first time in a few weeks. I checked the water befo e and after and all the levels (ammonium, nitrate, & nitrite) were normal (o, 5-10, and 0). The pH was a little low, but I added a pH7.5 product (which I usually do). I also treat the water with a conditioner (this time I also left the water to sit overnight) and I use "Cycle" usually every week (as per package) to help the water stay healthier. I ffed them flake food (which I just started to pre-soak since they have a problem with it causing them to float), and freeze dried blood worms, as well as once a week I feed them freeze dried brine shrimp and frozen mashed peas.

Sorry there is so much info., I just don't know what info might help figure out what's wrong with Baby, and what to do to make her better. These are the first fish I have ever owned, and my kids would be devestated if it died, especially my youngest as this is her fish.

Thank you very much.

Do you have an air pump and air stone to pump oxygen in the tank? when i set up my 10 gallon I lost a couple fish due to there not being enough oxygen. The started off just being sluggish but then progressively got worse. my bigger, older fish seemed to fare better than newer and younger fish.

If you don't have an airpump/stone and there is a lack of oxygen it could cause stress which could lead to other problems like fin rot so watch it closely. if it gets worse I'd add some medication for it.

hi, welcome to kokos. I am not too sure what is wrong with Baby but she may have a bacterial infection. Is there any way you can post a picture of her? Also, how big are your fish? They need at least between 10 to 20 gallons each. There are many anti bacterial meds out there but since I am not really experienced with knowing which are best I cannot really recommend any. I hope someone with more knowledge can help you soon. But, as long as she is eating I recommend getting her an antibacterial food such as metromed from goldfishconnection.com or antibacterial food from junglelabs. Also maybe adding some aquarium salt may help her out as well.

I wish Baby a quick recovery.


karla

I'm still abeginner so I can't advise much either I'm afraid. Considering one is bigger than the Baby it might be a good idea to put baby in another tank while treating her. The cut may be from bullying, but even if it isn't I noticed that my fish, that got on well before, started to nip and bully the other one when he started showing weakness. Baby may be better on her own for a bit while she gets better.

When it comes to sick goldies there is never too much info

The shredding of the fin could be the start of fin rot or something as simple as an injury. Does the cut on her side appear to be healing or does it look infected?

What kind of filter do you have (how many gallons per hour does it pump)? Is it possible to get a larger tank. Fancy goldies like you have need a bare minimum of 10 gallons per fish and they need more space as they grow.

Feeding a medicated food might be good to be on the safe side. Adding aquarium als would be helpful to, for a 10 gallon tank you would want 2 tablespoons of aquarium salt.

Hi, SunnyGirl - welcome. I am going to move your post to Disease and Discussion.

I realize that you have given us a lot of information here (thank you ) but at the top of the page there, you will find a list of questions - there are a few that were not answered here.

It sounds like you have something going on, definately in the tank. We need to see if we can help you figure out whether it is bacterial infection or a parasitic infestation or perhaps a parasitic problem with a secondary bacterial infection...

Until we can come a little closer to diagnosis, it is really not a good idea to start dosing the fish.... Your water parameters sound good but lets see if, with a little more information we can help you narrow the possibilities and probable treatments down, ok?

Thanks for moving my question. After I posted it I realized I put it in the wrong forum and reposted it myself too. As for the air pump, I do have one. It is a filter-pump in one (Tetra Whisper, I believe). When I do a water change I also vaccume the gravel and I try to clean any food or waste I can with a net at every feeding (twice a day).

Thanks for trying to help me.

To make sure I give all the required info., here is the list with the answers.

Thanks for tryingTest Results for the Following:
Ammonia Level? o
Nitrite Level? 0
Nitrate level? usually 5 (is as of yesterday)
Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? 7.5
Ph Level out of the Tap? varies, often 7.5 (add a pH7.5 powder to ensure the pH is 7.5)
Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? 10 Gallon, up and running since early December
What is the name and size of the filter/s? Tetra Whisper (came with kit and is also air pump)
How often do you change the water and how much? usually weekly, and up to 50%, depending on the water conditon and if I did it the previous week
How many fish in the tank and their size? 2, one is about 2" (body length) and the other is about 3"
What kind of water additives or conditioners? Aqua Plus tap water condtioner
Any medications added to the tank? never, except if youconsider "Cycle" as a medication, which I add weekly as per instructions (to add beneficial bacteria to the water)
Add any new fish to the tank? First fish added in late December, the second in April
What do you feed your fish? usually flakes in the morning and freeze dried blood worms or flakes in the evening, but weekly I feed frozen pea and freeze dried brine shrimp
Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt",
bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? slightly frayed tail fin on one of the two tailfins
Any unusual behavior like staying
at the bottom, not eating, ect..? sitting on the bottom more and not swimming as much, but is starting to swim slightly more this afternoon than previous couple of days. Still feeds really well.


Thanks again. If you need any more info just let me know!!!

I am really worried for her sice lastnight she basically stopped eating. She is trying but she isn't opening her mouth much, so she isn' really getting much. I think I am going to clean our spar 10 Gallon tan out and quarentine her. Penny, our bigger fish was picking on her last night while she was trying to eat (going at her sore spot), although this moring she went down and nudged Baby so she would realize there was food there. I will try to get a picture (stupid question, but how do I post it on here? as a signature?), but she has also stopped swimming as much. She is just sitting on the bottom now most of the time, and when she swims, it is way slower than normal.
Thanks for your encouragment and help!!

Hi Sunnygirl! I am sorry to hear that Baby has gotten worse. It is a good idea to separate her at this time, not only for medication reasons, but also because a 10 gl tank is too small for two goldfish. They need to have 10 gl each as a minimum, and giving them more space surely will help along any further problems in the future. As a matter of fact, it will cut down on future problems, since they are kept in a more appropriate housing and cut down on stress, which often causes illness.

Anyway, to get to some treatment for little Baby, there is definetely something bothering her. I'd guess that due to overcrowding she has been getting stressed, and a parasite/bacteria has gotten a hold of her.

What I'd suggest for you is to get Aquarium salt from the pet store, or pickle salt, rock salt, from the grocery. Not the regular cooking salt, it contains anticaking agents, which is deadly to fish. Anything that reads salt as only ingredient is fine really. Add 1 teaspoon per gallon to their tank, dissolve it first in a smaller container of tank water, and then pour it into Baby's tank. Basically, that is 10 teaspoons for 10 gl. This gets you up to a 0.1% salt solution. Wait 12 hours, do the same dosage, then again after yet another 12 hours the last dosage. Which now is a salt concentration of 0.3%.
What salt does is acting as a general de-stressor, but first and foremost taking care of at least half a dozen parasites. As for the bacterial trouble, I'd get a medication that can treat a rather wide range of bacteria. Maracyn I or Maracyn II comes to mind, they are both excellent, gentle, although they might cause a small hiccup in the filter, so watch those water readings.
Usually I'd also recommend a medicated food that you can find at Petsmart in the pond section (Antibacterial food by Jungle), but since Baby isn't eating at the moment, it isn't much use. Maybe you can tempt her with frozen foods - something like bloodworms or brine shrimp. This food smells stronger than pelleted of flake food, and it might just give Baby the will to eat.

Has the red spot changed somewhat - bigger/smaller? I put your thread into th 911 section now - not eating definetely qualifies as an emergency, and combined both your threads into this one.

Well as of the last hour or so, she is lying slightly on her side now, and her slowing and swimming has slowed even more. I went to the petstore this morning and they recommended MelaFix (which treats tail-rot, open red sores, ulcers, open body wounds anda few other fungus problems). They said leaving them in the same tank wqouldn't be a problem (they would both be treated in case Penny, the larger fish has it, but isn't showing signs yet). I still have the other ready just in case. I will probably move her tonight if she keeps up like this, hopefully she'll be alive tomarrow. They said the medicine would take 5 days to show results. Fingers crossed she'l make it one night, let alone 5 days. Should I buy aquarium salt as well and add it too?

I am confused though. I did a lot of research, and all the sources I read and found, all said that I could have a maximum of 2 fish (by the length to tank ration), and they all said that having 2 together can be beneficial as well because goldfish are so social. I checked at least 6 sources before i bought the fish because I had never had fish before (and I am a research nut).

Thanks again for all your input.

I forgot to add, that she appears to be getting dark spots on her head above her eyes. Her dorasl fin is also turning a bit black (happened with Penny months ago before we got Baby, and went away on it's own). The sore isn't changing size or color that I can tell. I totally forgot tomention that at the last tank change 2 days ago I noticed what looked like brownish mold or mildew on one plant and inthe corners. I cleaned the tank really well when I did the water change, but I very likely could be linked to what's wrong with Baby.

And thanks for moving and combing my thread.

Well, the black spots are healing marks from ammonia burns. Which means that ammonia was in the tank at some point (possibly because there are 2 fish in a 10 gl tank), and Baby got burned. The black marks show that the burn is healing, which is a good sign. But still, since the marks have shown up before is a clear indication that the tank is too small for both fish, plus the filter isn't working efficiently enough for the fish load.
The brown stuff is harmless and is just brown algae that builds mostly when there isn't enough light on the tank. After a while, if there is better lighting on the tank, it will turn green. But no harm done if you just wonna wipe it off occassionally. There are algae scrapers out there that will do that for you. I like the magnetic one, where there is one part at the inside of your tank, and one part on the outside. They are both "connected" via a magnet, and when you move the outside part along the glass, the inside part will follow and clean up the algae. Looks like that....
Mag-Float

Now to the more serious problem... Unfortunately, Melafix isn't strong enough for most bacterial problems. It is more of a tonic and does take care of minor things. A fish not swimming, and laying on its side isn't a minor issue. Is Baby at least still eating, or has she stopped that too?
I'd really recommend to find either one of those Maracyns I mentioned earlier, or maybe ParasiteClear from Jungle as a second option if they don't have any of the Maracyns. ParasiteClear carries a lower percentage of antibiotics than the Maracyns do, but it is still way better and more effective than the Melafix. And yes, salt can be in the water with all of those medications I mentioned.
If you wonna keep Baby and Penny together, I recommend that you really keep an eye on those water readings like ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. All the medication in the world doesn't do much good if the water isn't kept in pristine condition. This is even more important with sick fish, and those ammonia burns must have come from somewhere.

Hang in there, for Baby and for yourself, and keep us informed on how she is doing...

Well I am sorry to announce that Baby died last night. I am disappointed that the petstore recommeded that medicine even after I told them all the problems. I guess that's what happens when you live in a smaller town sometimes. Without a lenghty drive (not easy as we only have one car, and my husband takes it to work) you don't have a lot of choices. I think I gotta find a new pet store, this one is just soclose and bigger than any others within a 1/2 drive (petcetera closest to us is small and has a terrible selection of everything except dog food).
I am going to treat Penny today and tomarrow as a precaution (whatthe bottle says to dowith new fish additions). I am confused about the burns you are talking about. I check my tank levels more often than recommeded (sometimes daily) and I haven't had any even slighly elevated levels (except for Nitrate which hit amaximum of 20 for less than a week several months ago). I also change my filter more often than required tomake sure it does a good job all the time. Wouldn't Penny show the same burns too? I am going to watch Penny even closer for any signs that she has what killed Baby. My kids were so sad and crying (and they just think Baby went to see her mom and dad to get better). At least they got to say goodbye before bed (I knew she wasn't going to make it).
Thanks for everyone's help and suport!!

I am still confused about the tank size requirements. As I said before, I thouroughly researched everything you can imagine (even treatemtns and diagnosses for the most common illnesses, types of fish, food, care...) before I even bought the tank so I knew what I was getting into. I read in several places that in a 10 gallon tank, with the surface area we have, is ideal for one, but 2 is ok, as long as you keep the water clean and check the levels regularily. The sources said that the fish just may not grow as large as they would on their own. My kids want to get another fish (get Baby back from the petstore) but I don't want to cause another fish harm. The second tank is an old one my in-laws gave us (probably 20 years old at least) and the cover isn't in the best of shape, so I don't feel comfortable using it full time. We also really don't have the money for a new tank right now. I guess I could always talk my kids (and my husband) into waiting until we save up, but that could be a long time,a nd we all want more fish. Is there a way that I could make do with 2 fish in this tank still? When I bought the tank they (the same petstore, different person) said the filter would be fine for 2 fish, as long as I did the regular weekly maintence.

Thanks again to everyone. I know know I have to act way quicker rather thanwait to figure out what exactly is the precise problem.

Sunnygirl, I am so sorry that Baby didn't make it! I was really hoping he'd pull through...
The tank might have been fine as long as Penny and Baby were little. Small fish expell less waste (with poop or breathing) than big fish. Thats probably why you didn't have any problems until now. Once the two fish started growing beyond a certain point, the setup just wasn't enough for them.
One thing that I noticed - when you say you change your filter frequently, how do you do that? Tossing out the whole filter media and replacing it with new one? Rinsing the media with tap water and putting i back? Both of those methods destroy any beneficial bacteria that is in the media. The tap water contains chlorine that will kill off the bacteria. Tossing it out of course does the same thing.
What would be the best is just to rinse it in tank water that you previously put into a bucket. Rinse it until most of the water coming out of the sponge or media is clear, then put it back into the filter.

I know its tough when you only have one petstore, and the employees aren't very knowledgeable. Unfortunately, most people still compare stocking levels of goldfish with those for tropicals. Why that doesn't work is in the sheer size of goldfish - so much bigger than tropicals, therefore much bigger waste. Plus the fact that a 10 gl tank is awefully small for a growing fish to swim in. I can't imagine any of my 8inch fish fitting into a 10 gl comfortably, or even in a 20 gl.
I'd elaborate some more, but we are in the middle of a storm.

Thanks for your thoughts about Baby. I appreciate it. She is already missed.

My filter is a carbon filter. You have to replace it (it gets disgusting). When I replace it, I use the same frame and leave a small amount of the old carbon in it, and add the new carbon, so that I can keep some of the beneficial bacteria, or so I thought. Besides, doesn't the beneficial bacteria live on everything in the tank? Thanks for the tip about using the old water. I never would have thought of that!! I clean the inside of the glass every month usually (never had a problem with algea until this week). Should I be rinsing the plants to clean them? I usually leave them so that I won't disturb the bacteria. All I do is "brush" it with the net to get food and waste off of them everytime I feed the fish. When I do a water change, I take them out and put them in the bucket that has the new water (already pre-treated) while I syphon the water out (I hate to leave the fish in as I am terrible at getting the gravel vaccume started and when I tried leaving them in, I kept worrying about injuring or scaring them. That way I can also clean the gravel really well too.

I am so glad I found this site. Obviously the books and other sites I checked weren't very accurate, unfortunately. I really appreciate all the advice and support I have received!!
Hope you make it throught the storm Ok, and that it's not too bad. I haven't had time to watch the news lately, so hopefully it's not a hurricane.
Long week, Sick, dying fish; sick daughter; 2 extra kids to look after; aunt in-law getting sicker (has cancer); husband in middle of 2.5 weeks (12+ hour days) working straight; and a best friend having major crises in her family (her brother) and about to leave her husband. Hopefully next week will be better when we go camping and I can relax!! At least it can't get worse...knock on wood and hope not to jinx myself!!

Good luck with the storm and thanks again for all the help and support I have recieved!! You all are great!