I have a goldfish - can't recall the type at the moment, possibly just called fancy? Anyway, I noticed the other day that he had red streaks in his tail as well as the tip of his tail was white and frayed. He also hadn't been eating as much. I did about a 50% water change yesterday (I have an Eclipse Sypstem 12) and added aquarium salt. It seems the streaks and white fraying are gone, but now he just sits at the bottom of the tank and is often upside down. He will eventually right himself, but is not swimming much. I also noticed there are red patches on his belly. I tested the water and it seems to be mostly within ok ranges, perhaps a little acidic, but i added some neutralizer. ANy ideas?? He also seems to be panting. He's alone in the tank and I've had him about 3 years now. How long do GF live?

Can you post the exact numbers for the water params? Specifically ammonia, nitrAte, nitrIte and pH? Fish can live 10+ years.

Red streaks are usually a sign of poor water quality and stress.

Answering as many of the questions above as possible will help us help you better.

I just use the dip-stick kind of tests, but the most recent numbers are:
Nitrate: 40
Nitrite: 1
Hardness: 150
Alkalinity: 80-120
pH: 6.2-7.2

The ranges are b/c the test pads are half one color, half another. I added another dose of Amquel about 30 minutes ago. The salt was added with the water change as was a dose of Amquel and NovAqua.

OK, if you have nitrIte then your tank is not cycled. You've had it running for 3 years? Also nitrAte should be closer to 20 so Id do another 50% change ASAP. How much salt did you add to the tank?

Hopefully someone with more knowledge will be along to help more.

Hi MDO - I would increase the water changes to 50% daily, nitrites of 1.0ppm are really high.

Also, is there any way you can give an accurate pH reading? 6.2-7.2 is a huge variance and a ph of 6.2 is close to a crash. If the head was white and looked like slime coat was peeling then I think your ph actually crashed... this is why a more accurate reading is important.

So if you can retest your tank water and post back the actual number, it would help.

The redness you see I believe may be due to stress - so getting your water better will be a good start.

How long has the tank been set up?
How do you rinse your filter media?
How is the appetite?
What does his poop look like?
How often do you do waterchanges?
How much do you usually change out?

Please post back soon

Thanks for all the help everyone - you're always so great here! I have to admit tho, that my water changes have not been as often as they should be. We had a baby about 6m ago, so things have been a little out of whack around here. I will do another 50% water change today - hopefully that will help. I usually use store bought drinking water, but don't have any more right now. I hope the tap is ok. I think I recall testing it a while ago and it was fine - I don't remember why I stopped using it. He has not been eating and is now spending more time on his back at the bottom than right side up. I hope I can save him, my daughter really enjoys sitting in front of the tank watching him. She "chirps" at him when she sees him. Oh, I've had the tank set up for over 2 years now. Did I get all the questions? Oh - the pH - my test strips don't seem to be reading very well, but I had added a pH stabilizer yesterday (Neutral Regulator - says it adjusts high or low to 7.0). I will try adding it again with the new water change and let you know what happens. Hopefully my daughter will remain happy for the next 20-30 min while I do all this! )

Tap water is actually better than bottled water as it has minerals beneficial to your fish. Just make sure to temp match and dechlorinate. I use Prime but I think Amquel does the same thing?

I dont know about using a neutralizer either. I use crushed coral in my filters to keep my pH steady.

I'd recommend getting a drop test kit instead of the strips. They seem to be more accurate.

Oh and Congrats on the baby!!!!!

Thanks Erin - we're having lots of fun with Baby esp. now that she's sitting up, laughing, etc.

Ok, did a 50% water change with NovAqua+. The AmQuel+ says to wait 24 hours btwn applications. Should I put in more aquarium salt? Yesterday I put in 2-3 Tbsp - can too much be a bad thing? The bottle says 1/2 tsp per gallon for goldfish or 1 Tbsp per 5 gallons for general tonic & stress reliever.

When should I retest or see my fish acting better? Right now he's back upright at least!

You should add about 1/2 tbsp after every water change since your tank is 12 gallons, because when u do a 50 percent water change, half the salt needs to be replaced. try to get the water parameters good and your fish will do alot better. It's good that he's not flipped over, i hope he gets better.

I would test the water a couple hours after each water change. Just add back whatever salt you take out with a water change. So if youre taking out 6 gallons, put back in 6 TEAspoons. And yes too much can be a bad thing. Goldies can take a fairily strong salting but there are of course limits.

Im glad to hear that he's right side up again!! Just keep those params in check and he should continue to improve. Hopefully he'll eat soon too.

GF is still doing very poorly - he spent all of last night and all of today upside down or on his side at the bottom of the tank. I just added StressZyme to see if that will help my nitrite levels b/c when I just retested, they actually seem to be getting worse than they were yesterday. I'm afraid another water change (would be 3 in 3 days) may stress him out too much. What if I put him in an empty 3 gal bucket? Would that be a bad thing?

Hi MDO - weighing up the options, waterchanges are much less stressful than sky high nitrites especially as high levels of nitrites can kill or cause lasting damage. Don't be afraid to change out 90% of the water (twice daily if necessary). I can't stress how important it is to keep you nitrites at 0 or worst case below 0.25....

What is the current level?

Putting him in a bucket won't help much at this point because you'd also need to change out 100% of the water daily (if not more) to combat rising ammonia. So changing as much water as needed in the tank will be better. It means you're nearing the end of your cycle and remembering back, it seems the nitrite phase lasts around 2 weeks (or a bit more) so there's a bit of work needed here to keep the levels at a healthy level

If you recall, MDOwner was having Nitrate readings of 40,and the tank's been set up for 3 years. You must have really gotten behind on the water changing for sure,which is understandable with having a new baby by the way. I have to say,that I do keep test strips in the house for quick readings,but that the readings are far from ideal. My readings on them are usually way higher when I test with the Drop test kit, so chances are that your params are probably worse off than you think.
How did you add the salt by chance? Salt should be done at one teaspoon per gallon of tank,and predissolved in a bucket of tank water before adding it straight to the tank.For a 12 gal. thank,12 teaspoons would bring it to a 0.1% reading.
I agree with the continuing water changes though.Make sure to change with treated temp matched water. On a cycled tank,it's not safe unless both Ammonia and Nitrites are reading a zero,and your Nitrate reading is best if under 20.How's the fish doing today?Have you changed out any more water?Is he feeling any better?
How big is your fish by the way?
I also wanted to add that I personally don't feel that the actual Eclipse filters are strong enough to handle goldfish,so you may want to look into a bigger filter.Between the water quality and the filter,that is probably why he seems to be gasping.
Good luck,and let us know how things are going.

Good point Sharon - adding some additional filtration should help the problem The best cure for now is loads of waterchanges...

Is there any improvement today?

Thanks Everyone. I was surprised to see MD make it thru the night. He spent all day upside down, but an hour or so ago I noticed he had righted himself! And even better, as I write this, he is swimming!! I put some peas in the tank since he hasn't eaten in days and he's swimming around looking for them. He still gets upsidedown every now and then, but dare i say he's improving?? I did another water change last night - more than 50% and added StressZyme. Unfortunately, I ran out of test strips and didn't get a chance to get to the pet store today, so I don't know what my latest params are. The splotchy redness that he had on his belly has disappeared, but he now has some just under his mouth/chin. I didn't think he was going to make it, but now I have a little hope. It seems tho, that the effort he just expelled was too much as he's back on the bottom, but seems to be mostly rightside up/or on his side a little. It seems to take a lot more effort than normal to swim - possibly from not eating for a few days?

Someone had asked how big he was - his body alone is probably 5", maybe 7-8" with tail.

Let's see how he does tonight! I don't think he's out of the dark just yet.

I forgot to ask - how do I use ground up coral to balance the pH? Where would I put it in my Eclipse filter?

An Eclipse filter - that's the all-in-one isn't it? The best way to do it is to sew some into a stocking or filter bag and place it where the other media is, this way the water runs through it stabilising your ph

If the water is improving then there's a good change he will also. Already there's some improvement although testing your water will tell you if the water is perfect. It can take a little time to get over the stress of imperfect water and also once the water is excellent, it's also a good indication if more is at play. The problem with stress is it lowers the immunity leaving your fish vulnerable to bacteria and that's why getting the water in order is the first step to helping your fish.

But for now, hopefully he'll do better tomorrow.

Keep us posted

I put mine into a media bag and make sure to rinse it REALLY well before adding it to the filter. The stuff is really dusty.

Good luck!

Going by the size you say he is makes me even more convinced that not only does he need extra filtration,but that he really needs his tank upgraded-asap.He's an awful big fish to be stuck in a 12 gal.,and with the filtration,I'm really thinking that it isn't near enough to keep up with his ammonia/waste being produced.The Eclipse may work okay when they're small,but I just don't think that they're strong enough to handle the load as the fish continues to grow..
With the Eclipses that I've dealt with,the filter cartridge lays flat in a box shaped form on top of the tank. To me,there really wouldn't be enough of water flowing over the crushed coral to aid it in any way,but that is only my thoughts on it.
Until you get another test kit,my advice would be to continue with those water changes. A water change is never a bad thing when it comes to your fish's health.

Hi, I think you are in great hands with the experts here but I can tell you that I have an Eclipse 12 (much smaller gf though) and have been able to raise the tank pH from a low of 7.2 up to ~7-6-7.8 using crushed coral. As suggested here I put several tablespoons of crushed coral in a cut off knee high, tie the top and leave it all the way on the left side on top of the filter cartridge. The water does go over it on the left side although it doesn't towards the middle and right side of the cartridge.

I can also second the fact that the test strips and drop test give very different results. I thought everything was fine when I was using the test strips but when I switched to API drop tests I was amazed to see the difference in the numbers (and subsequently in my happier fish )

Good luck

--sea

MD is doing so much better today - he's swimming around - haven't seen him inverted in since yesterday! - and ate all the peas I put in last night. I'm going to the store today so I can test my water and based on the results may do another water change. I was trying to measure him more accuratly, but now that he's moving around it's a little harder. I would say his body is more like 4" with a tail of 3-4". Unfortuately, I can't afford to get him a bigger tank (for me, it was a big investment to get this tank almost 3 years ago - I also don't think he's grown much in the last 2 years. He did initially when I put him in), so I guess I'll just have to be sure and change his water more frequently and test more often so this doesn't happen again. I'm also going to see if they have the crushed coral at the store - if not, I know I can buy it online from Drs Foster & Smith.

I'll try to post a pic of him if you'd like to see him. Thanks for all your help!

sea,my bad... It's been so long since I've actually used an actual elclipse filter that I forgot about the one side.(Don't get old)


I'm glad that your fish is doing better.
I really would look into a drop test kit.The first thing that I'd check is your PH out of the tap,and really decide if crushed coral is a must,or if weekly frequent water changes will keep your tank in tact. Goldfish can deal with alot of PH levels,as long as their stable.If you have low KH and Gh,then you very well may have to go with the coral. As far as I feel,those eclipse filter's really don't have the turnover power or the bio-space to keep goldies happy,and I personally would look into another filter. That is only my opinion though.Some people may beg to differ.

But how would I change the type of filter or filtration system in my tank without getting a whole new setup/tank, etc? If there's something relativly inexpensive I can do, I'll do it, but with all my new expenses for diapers, wipes, formula, etc, it would be very tough for us now.

I'll be honest,with the way they are made,it may be hard to find something that fits perfectly,that will do the job.In truth,I had extra Aquaclears on it for a while,but it now has a Penguin on it.Because of that,I can't fit the hood on flush,but with the way it sits,you can't tell from the front,and the back of the tank is against the wall so it doesn't matter to me. I like to have the tank "pleasing to the eye",but in this case,I thought for my Lionhead who was in it and growing like a weed,that he needed the extra filtration more. I love those tanks,I've had a few of them,but they just seem to do better with Tropicals,-in my opinion anyway.

Thanks for the suggestions, Devs, I'll look into those. I did get out and buy some drop-tests yesterday and when I tested, these were my new params:
pH: 7
Nitrite: 0.25
Nitrate: 20

Since I'd like to get those down to 0, I think I"ll do another water change today of at least 50%. I think the StressZYme, in conjunction with the water changes is what finally helped. MD is doing much, much better now. I'll just have to keep a better eye on my levels in the future. I can't believe he lived!

Another question for you all - what brand/type of food do you feed your goldies? I used to feed Bio-Blend Goldfish slowly sinking pellets, but my fish store no longer carries it, so I had to switch to Top Fin GOldfish floating variety pellets, which he doesn't seem to like as much. I think that may have contributed to my problem as he probably wasn't eating all the food and then it would just sink to the bottom and decay. Suggestions? Thanks!

I normally feed my Goldie's Pro Gold as their main staple,then I try to give them peas,bloodworms(frozen) , spirulina flakes/wafers,fresh veggies on occasion,shrimp pellets,etc. .I have a couple floater's in my group,so recently I have finally started looking into ,and actually made some gel food. I also have started feeding smaller amounts more often too.Don't be afraid to try a few types.I try to stay away from flakes-they make much to much mess in the tank,and any pellet you try,you may want to soak a bit in a little tank water before feeding. Check out our Goldfish food section to get some ideas.
Alot of people use Omega and Hikari brands,and seem to be happy with those too,by the way.
Well I'm really happy that MD seems to be doing alot better.As long as you keep ammonia/Nitrites at 0 and Nitrates under 40----(and truthfully,under 20 is sooo much safer) ,hopefully MD will continue to do good.I's so much about consistent water changes and testing params.

I did a water change today - just over 50% and retested about 3 hours later, and my params haven't changed much. My nitrate is 20 and my nitrite is somewhere btwn .25 and 0. I tested the pH of my tap and it's 7.5 or 7.6, so I left it as is with the change this time.

Thanks for everyone's help. I think it's ok to move this post of of the 911 section. I'll let you know if suddenly something drastic changes.