Hi everyone

We have just returned from a two week holiday and found one of our Orandas (ca. 4-5 inch) in a terrible state:

- One one side the skin in the area around the gills appears red

- There is a small red "hole" close to this red area. The hole is about 1-2 mm deep and has a diameter of 3-4 mm. In the middle of the "hole" there is a white spot

- He does not eat anymore

- His movements are very slow and he seems to tumble, but is lying on the ground most of the time

I have put two photos online:
Picture 1
Picture 2

We are really afraid that our Oranda could die. Does anyone know what could be wrong with it and how we could cure it?


Here is some background information about the fish and our tank:

We bought our orandas about three months ago. They had some white coating on their heads since we bought them. We called up the pet shop where we bought them and asked for help. Initially we tried to cure it with "Sera Baktopur direct" and "Sera Baktotabs", but it did not improve. So we tried using "Sera Omnipur", but it did not change. However it did not seem to affect the fish in any way up to now and so the pet shop suggested not treating it anymore.

Our fish tank:
ca. 32 US Gallons (120 l), Eheim "Professional 2224" Filter, set up about 18 months ago.
3 Orandas (4-5 in), 5 Smaller Goldfish (1.5-3 in), 3 Applesnails, a couple of water plants

We checked the water quality (using JBL Test strips), when we came back last night and it seems quite bad:
NO3: 80 mg/l
NO2: 0 mg/l
PH: 6
GH: 8 (german hardness)
KH: 2 (german hardness)
Temperature: 22 Celsius.

As an intermediate measure we did change 40% of the water last night, cleaned the filter and tried bringing the PH value closer to 7. We will change another 30% today.

Any help is highly appreciated - please help to save his life,

David & Sarah

Hi and welcome to the forum

First off, your tank is overcrowded and really only big enough for two orandas.
It looks like a bacterial cause with lack of water changes to keep on top of it. Do 50% water changes for the next few days and see if it settles itself. If not and you get more holes then your fish may have hexamita aka hole in the head disease.
This is also bacterial related and good water conditions are the key.
Can you test for ammonia?
Which filter/s are you using?

By the way, your fish are lovely

Hi Sandy

Thanks for your quick reply. We are planning to move next month - and the fish will get a much bigger tank (300 l). At the moment we are using a "Eheim Professional 2224" external filter.

The condition of the oranda is getting worse and worse. Is there anything else we can do? (On top of changing the water?) Did you notice the white coating on the head - could it be related to the current problems?

Usually we change about 20-30% of the water every week, but nobody did change the water during our holidays. And I reckon our friends did feed them way to much :-(

Thanks a lot,

David & Sarah

Hi tafit and from me also.

Looking at the head, the whiteness appears to be wen growth - it's often mistaken for fungus. His gill cover looks poorly though. What's the current ph at after the waterchange? Is it still 6? Hopefully you can slowly get it up so your tank doesn't suffer from ph crash also

I agree with Sandy - it looks bacterial and big waterchanges will help.

Where abouts are you? Are you able to get any medicated food?

Have you noticed the poop at all? What colour is it? (ie. white/stringy? or solid/coloured?)

I honestly think they'll benefit from perfect water and as your nitrates are up high - it will take several decent sized waterchanges to bring it back to healthy levels

I see you are uk so send me an email at sandygoldfish@hotmail.com and i can help you further.

Hi JenW

The tank is in my girlfriend's flat in Prague, Czech Republic. But we could also drive over to Germany. At the moment we have got "Sera baktotabs" (food tablets) containing nifurpirinol and "Sera baktopur direct" (to disolve nifurpirional into the water). The oranda did not eat anything today, so i think it will be difficult to use medicated food.

The major part of the poop seems solid and coloured (black-ish), but the bit that "came out first" was rather white/stringy.

We try to get the ph up slowly and hope that it will go up soon,

David & Sarah

Hi everyone

The condition of the Oranda is getting worse. Instead of one hole there are now 3 holes. One is fairly big.
I have put two new photos online:
Picture 3
Picture 4

We did change quite a lot of the water and the water quality did improve slightly. Tomorrow morning we are going to change another 50%, because we did not want to change more than 50% today to prevent rapid changes.

NO3: 60 mg/l
NO2: 0
GH: 10
KH: 5
PH: 6.5
(Unfortunately we could not test for Ammonia)

Our Oranda seems to be dying. What can we do to safe him/her?

David & Sarah

try Melafix

David have you emailed Sandy yet? Please do so, she can help you so much thru that avenue. OK?????

I am not familar with the stuff over there to be of much help but SAndy is a girl in that part of the world. email her asap.

Hmm it looks like what my chocolate oranda had

Hole in the head,might not be that though but check these pics out

Its hole in the head. I havent had an email from you yet.
All you can do is multiple water changes and quarantine him. I dont think its the parasite that causes it but the bacteria.
Salting to .2% may help.
OB, did you manage to cure it and if so how?

Hi orandabeauty!

The pictures look quite familiar to me, all of my orandas had that a couple of weeks after i bought them, but than it disapeared suddently and the fish never seemed to have a problem with that.They were eating,breading and swimming normally so after trying to tread it with bacterial med.(with no result) I decided to leave it.
The orandas had some white coating from tim to time (no holes) only on theire heads but everything was ok till now!
The holes in flips (oranda) head are really bad and the gill seems to be all red!

I don´t know what to do, what did you do with your oranda do you know what exactly causes the demage?
What happend to yor oranda?

Thanks for your help

Sarah and David

P.s. Of course we will send an email to Sandy to find out where we could get med. in europe!

Hole in the head besides parasites a fish is usually vitamin deficient as well.I would email Sandy.Whatever you do never feed your fish beef heart or any meat from warm blooded animals as they carry these intestinal parasites.

hi blue
i do never feed them with meat
i feed them with tetrafin gold japan, tetra animin flakes and coloure sticks and of course they tend to consider the plants as food.
i have to say that two of my snails "disappeared" over night a month ago and i don´t know whether the other snails eat them or the fish?

Hi Tahfit

I don't know how it started,just out of the blue she started with a big red mark under her eye,then she got a hole in the head and a cut where it was red on her cheak.Soo i went to buy GENERAL CURE for hole in the head and it was great! worked out from the moment i put it in the tank,the next day the redness was already almost all gone.

If you can get waterlife products then octozen may help as ive never used what you have tahfit.

http://www.waterlife.co.uk/waterlife/octozin.htm

hi everyone

it got a lot worse-one of his gills is blood red down to his mouth and the holes are bigger and surroundet by a white substance.
but the scariest thing is that some white stuff (defenitely no worm) is hanging down from the bottom of his gills
i´m really worried about this. Looks like a piece of skin(?)
I put another photo online to show what i mean:
Picture 5 - white "substance" below gills?

obtaining the meds. will take me a wile, does any one know what we could do till the meds arrive?
I`m still do water changes but and the quality of the water improves but the oranda seems to get worse...
DO you still think it`s hole in the head?
I fell like crying all the time...
please help

Try and feed your fish some orange. Get segments and cut them up and see if they will eat them. A lack of vitamins is probably the case as suggested by Blue.
You can get a human multi vitamin liquid and soak your fishes food in it for 10 minutes before feeding.

Something to read
http://www.fishpalace.org/Disease.html#HITH

How is the fish doing, any updates?

Hey Tahfit

Sorry to hear things aren't better

I would recommend you purchase some Metro-Med, its made for Hole in the head

MetroMed

I was giving my Oranda that and treating her with general cure.

You can purchase it on ebay and ask the person to ship it express,you will pay a bit more for the shipping but it will be worth it.

General Cure

Those things combined treated her really quick.

The dosage is one tablet per 10Gallons.

Unfortunately tahfit's in the UK and like us good old Aussies, is unable to get Metromeds

I wonder if he can get General Cure though?

HOw are things going?

hi everyone,

we did add some vitamins to the food and the condition of the oranda did improve: the strange behaviour (staying at the bottom) disappeared and the wounds became much better. so the oranda does not seem to be in great danger anymore. however it is still not in perfect condition and it will take some more time. we will give you an update in a couple of days.

we are really happy and like to say thanks to everyone of you,

Sarah & David

I am pleased he is doing well