I'm totally new to this forum and to goldfish so please bear with me. A couple of weeks ago I inherited this aquarium. The owners were moving and didn't want to take it. It is 20 gallons - woefully overstocked - 5 fish and probably under equipped. About 80% of the tank was emptied for the move and the fish were bagged in tank water. The water was very dirty but I thought after the move it might be better to leave the 20% that was left in the tank & the bags there than to start from scratch. The filter (Aquaclear 20) was not changed. There is also 2 air stones - well one small one and one long bar. I'm sorry I don't have much of the info you may need. I live in a very small town and though we do have a pet store the supply of aquarium needs is limited. I am on well water (on the farm) but have nothing to test it with so have no idea of the specs. I have been feeding the feed that came with the tank - Nutrafin Max and Wardley Goldfish Floating Pellets.

All of the fish seem to be doing fine - eating, active, pooping well etc. but I do have 2 problems. 1) Lilly - the Balloon Molly(?) appears to have Ich (just noticed on Thursday). She is solid white but close inspection looks like Ich to me. 2) Tippy - the Lionhead(?) was swimming somewhat on her side from the time I brought them home. She/He(?) did that for a couple of days but now swims fine. She also has a large kind of lump or bump on one side (also since I got her) which seemed to me to be the reason for her lopsided swimming. I just looked to me like she was more bouyant on that side. I just watched her for several days and the lump got a little bit bigger, the scales are somewhat protruded on it and then it developed a small sore almost as if it split from getting so large. She continues to eat and swim well. She and the others do seem to "scratch" on the rocks periodically though I don't think excessively.

What I have done: Found this site and read until it's all blurring together with info overload. The water has been completely changed out. The filter components have all been cleaned/changed in stages. Gravel has been vaccuumed (was filthy). I tied to get some aquarium salt for the Ich but the local pet store didn't have any. She has ordered some for me but it won't be there until at least the end of the month so for the Ich I got CopperSafe. Treated water with that yesterday. Don't know when I should expect to see results but none so far on the Ich. I also got Maracyn-Two and have started that. Today - 24 hours since treatment - the lump on Tippy seems to have gone down some (maybe my imagination) but the scales are still "up" and no change in the sore - no better/no worse. The store also had Maracyn and Maracyn Plus. I read the package insert a dozen times but since I don't know what the problem is I didn't know which to try.

I've fallen in love with these little guys already and would like to do the best I can for them. Unfortunately a bigger tank is not an option right now ($$) but will be keeping an eye out for something. Hopefull I can try to combat the overstocking by keeping it really clean. Any advise you folks can give me on threatment I've started or something else I can try would sure be appreciated. Keep in mind limited funds and limited access to product in this small town. I'm sorry this is so long. I wanted to try to give as much info as I thought might be usefull.

Hi there Diamond T and

I think you may run into problems because overstocking causes stress... the ich would have been present in the tank and as soon as their immunity was compromised, the parasite took hold.

I don't know if you should mix coppersafe with anything. Do you have a local store near you? You can usually pick up sea or rock salt which does equally well. Really you can use any salt that contains no additives. I would try and get some salt and remove the coppersafe then you can go with salt and maracyn. If you can get maracyn plus then even better as it treats several strains of bacteria.

I would only rinse the sponge for your aquaclear in old tank water and don't replace any of the other media. If you have carbon in the filter, you can remove it while medicating as it'll remove the meds. Then while the tank is cycling, the beneficial bacteria will colonise the filter. But herein is the double edged sword - if you're medicating with maracyn, your parameters may go off and the water will become toxic. In these cases, the meds won't have a beneficial affect, it will just add to the stress.

I'll summarise what I would do:

1 Remove the coppersafe and get some sea or rock salt (so a nice big waterchange or 2)
2 Add 1 teaspoon of salt per gallon of water - predissolved taking you to 0.1%
3 12 hours later add another teaspoon of salt per gallon as stated in 2
4 12 hours later, repeat 2 - this will take you to 0.3%
5 keep up daily waterchanges because without test kits, it'll be hard to know what your parameters are so daily waterchanges will be essential
6 add the maracyn plus

The only thing to remember is with doing daily waterchanges, it will help to remove exact gallons so you can calculate how much salt and maracyn to add back to the water

I think i've covered it off

Please post back with any questions

Thanks for the welcome and the quick reply. The package insert for the Marcyn-Two say "concurrent use of CopperSafe is recommended". It also says to leave the carbon filter in as long as it is more than 6 days old - it is. I have checked all the salt I could find in town - table, pickling and sea salt. All contain things other than salt. Will check again on Monday to see if I can find any other since pet store wont' have aquarium salt for a while. I can get Maracyn Plus but since I couldn't get the salt I wasn't sure if I should use it with the CopperSafe or not so went with Two instead. The warning says not to use with any other anti-biotic treatment though the "use with CopperSafe" remains. It just made me a bit nervous. Should I continue the Maracyn-Two as directed until I can get salt? Will cleanliness help with the overstocking until a bigger tank can be found? Sorry for all the questions.

If it's safe to use together, then yes - I would continue

Do you have enough to keep up waterchanges and redose? How long has the maracyn been in the water? Over 6 days? When did you last do a waterchange?

Sorry for all the questions, but it will help paint a picture.

If your fish are very small, then they can all live in a 20 gallon - but I would do 50% waterchanges every second day... this is after you've finished medicating (I would do daily changes for the next little while). You could also get yourself a nice big rubbermaid plastic tub and set it up as an outdoor pond - this could help also. I have fry at the moment and no place to put them so I've set up a 25 gallon tub for them. It really does help keep the water quality better but like you, I will need to look at a bigger home for them as they grow

I have enough to dose as directed and one water change. Day 1 - 2/10 gal and Day 2-5 1/10 gal. I can get more on Monday. Should I get Plus instead - completely change water and start over or see if Two will do the trick? The Marycyn has just been in since yesterday - 2nd dose today. (The 6 days ref in my previous post was with regards to the carbon filter.) I did an almost total water change (95% or more) on Thursday and started to treat on Friday.

Unfortunately these are not really small fish. Do you measure from tip to tip or just body? Anyway, the Moor is a chubby & quite a handfull - at least for my hand. The fantail is a little smaller - not much. The Lionhead is about 2 1/2 - 3 inches long. Balloon Molly is only about an inch or so but the Shabunkin(?) is about 6 inches or so tip to tip. I'm thinking this is bad, bad, bad. The tank is in the Family room with the TV so I don't mind doing regular water changes in the evening while watching TV but a bigger tank is definately in order. Hubby wants tropicals anyway - he can use the 20 gal.!! Thanks again for your help. Any ideas what is wrong with Tippy?

They're a decent size unfortunately so I think you're way overcrowded. If you can work towards a bigger tank, they'll love you for it

I think it's a combination of problems, the ich being the first... Sometimes, it can cause secondary bacterial infection because this particular parasite burrows under the skin of fish leaving them vulnerable... Personally I would still go with my original suggestion (if you can) and medicate with Maracyn (if you can get plus - this I believe is a good med) and salt. It's a gentler and still very effective way of treating both ich and bacterial infection

Is there any chance of a pic of your fish so we can identify what they are and get a pic of the bump? A balloon molly is a tropical fish so would be good to ID that one properly.

A tropical? Sheesh I missed that one - Sands as I have no experience with tropicals, I'll leave it in your hands

Definately on the lookout for a new tank! The swelling on Tippy's side has definately come down some but the scales are still sticking up a little. I forgot to mention that the colour on that side is whiter than on the other side. I thought is was just because the skin was stretched so - maybe not. She doesn't have Ich by the way - at least not that I can see. Maracyn Plus is no problem to get. It's the salt that will be the problem. Plus says not to use with other anti-biotics so I guess a complete water change will have to be done? I really wanted to go with the salt in the first place but couldn't find any that I could use in the tank. I have sacrificed my picnic cooler (about 20 gal.) and use it when doing water changes. Would it be better to move the two sickies into that and treat them only? I only have one filter though so the 2nd "tank" wouldn't have a filter. I could put one of the air stones in there but that's all I have.

Sorry - no pics. I will try later and see if I can get some. Lilly is definately a Balloon Molly. I had no idea she was a tropical! Showing my ignorance! Now what? Can she live with the goldfish for now? Crap.
I thought I would have seen improvement on Lilly's Ich by now. I know it can take quite a while to kill what might be lurking in the tank but I thought what was actully on the fish would be gone quickly.

Thank so much for all your help so far. I never knew there was so much to learn about goldfish but learning I am! This site is wonderful. Thanks also for not berating me about my overcrowded tank. I'll do my best to rectify that a soon as I can.

I have some question about care and feeding while I'm away for 2 weeks. Should I ask them in this thread or start a new one in a more appropriate spot?

Was about to go and a water change. Checked my pickling salt again and it is "natural - no additives". Yippee - I think! It is safe to use right?? If so I will do a complete water change and start over with the salt today and Maracyn-Two tomorrrow when I go to town.

oops!! I meant Maracyn Plus not Two

Pickling salt is excellent The only thing is i've never owned tropical fish (molly) but can help you on your goldies - and they will do excellent in salt and maracyn Plus I'm just wondering if you can separate your molly for the duration of treatment? Sandy will be along later and can help with a treatment for your molly

Great! Just in time. I'm about to start with the salt and thought I'd check back for a reply just to make sure. If I need to separate the Molly I can to the picnic cooler as I mentioned earlier but no filter. She's the one with the Ich though & Tippy with the lump/sore so would have to treat both "tanks". Thanks again.

Update: I did a complete water change and salted the water to .3% in 3 increments as instructed. I decided to continue with the Maracyn-Two since I had it on had. If need be I will get Plus for another go round. Tippy's swelling/lump is completely gone. There is still some discolouration (white) but the scales are pretty much flat and the sore seems to be healing nicely. Lilly's Ich seems to be going as well. It's kind of hard to tell on a white fish but I still see a few "grains". Will continue to monitor.

How long do I keep the water salted? I believe I read that it can take up to a month to clear the tank of new hatches or however it is they propogate. Just to clarify for water changes - since the tank is at .3% now, any new water should be at .3% as well. For a change out of 10 gal. of water I would add 3 tsp. per gal. for a total of 30 tsp. Is that correct?

Thanks again.

Yes indeed - that's the correct calculation for salting

The best way to resolve the problem with ich is when you see the last of it, continue keeping the salt level at 0.3% for a good 2 weeks after. What's the current temperature of your tank?

I'm glad Tippy's swelling is going down, that's terrific news

Salt wont bother the molly, they are really a brackish species so will handle it well.

I'm glad too! I believe the temp is about 74F though it seems to vary between 72 - 74. Probably a bit chilly for Lilly eh?

Thanks to all for your help. I've learned so much here. Hopefully we can consider this emergency handled! I'll continue with current treatment and monitor. Still on the lookout for larger tank for goldies and then use this one for tropicals. Hopefully I can make all the fishies more comfortable.


Forever grateful - Barb

I think they should do well with salt, meds and perfect water... I'll move this topic into diagnosis/discussion as thankfully the emergency seems to be over