I think I posted this question under the wrong forum earlier. Anyway, I've been struggling with high nitrites and ammonia levels. They've been zero for the past couple of weeks. One of the fish has black marks on him and someone said that it could be ammonia poisoning. He has been sitting at the bottom alot. Yesterday, he was floating vertical, head up, so I did an 80% water change; doubled Prime and added 4 tbsp aquarium salt...just in case something else was wrong. Today, he's floating on top of the water on his side...barely moving. I think he's dying and I don't think there's anything I can do at this point. Any suggestions?
Ammonia, nitrate/nitrite zero. pH 7.8 (added a neutralizer last night and this evening to bring it down), 30 gallons, running 2-3 months. Whisper 20-40. I've been pretty much changing the water daily until last week. 2 fish, no new ones. Feed tetra flakes (didn't feed yesterday or today).

You dont need to bring the ph down. Goldied do fine at up to 8.6 as long as its stable.
This alone can make goldfish really ill, so do small water changes to bring it back to tap water levels.

I did a small water change and doubled the Prime. I think it's too late though. He was even stuck to the filter and didn't have enough strength to free himself. I just turned it off and he floated to the bottom. Maybe I should stick to plants, this stuff is too heart-wrenching for me. You know, you do all you can and they still get sick and die. That part wouldn't be so bad if they didn't have to suffer first. Poor baby.

Aww Cristi - this is sad. I think it may be an advancing bacterial infection and his organs may be shutting down. Do you have any maracyn at home? You could try one more approach at medicating although it sounds like he may be ailing badly. I guess if it were me, I'd medicate one more time and see if this helps - I've had luck bringing fish on the verge of passing back to good health, i've also had some failures but do you feel like you can give it one more try?

Otherwise, you've made him as comfortable as you can

Oh no. I just found this latest thread. I am so very sorry Cristi. Youve been trying so hard, its heartwrenching from afar so I can only imagine how you must feel.

He's still with us...barely. I was sure he wouldn't make it through the night, but he did...although he's not really better. I did another small water change (about 1/3) and doubled the Prime this morning. I went ahead and turned the filter back on because there's still a fish in there who seems to be doing okay. I could try some maracyn, but it'll be around noon today because I'll have to do it at lunch. I'm really not sure he'll still be alive. However, maybe I could keep the other one from getting sick. Should I add some aquarium salt? Nitrites and ammonia 0, pH is between 7.2 and 7.8.

Sorry to hear your little one isn't well. If he is still here, Aquarium salt may help his stress. You can try 1 tsp per gallon of water. This will give you a 0.1% concentration, enough to ease stress. Keep us posted.

How are things going?

Sorry I haven't been in touch, my little one died. He was gone by the time I got home from lunch, how depressing. Maybe I wouldn't feel so bad if he didn't suffer like he did, he just looked so pitiful. I had another goldie in there with him and she looked so pitiful so I went and bought her another goldie friend. Now, she's sitting at the bottom and not moving around much! She's active when I walk up to the tank and she's eating well. I guess I just don't understand what I'm doing wrong. Nitrites and ammonia are zero. pH is about 7.2. I've been soaking the tetra flakes before I feed them, but now I'm wondering if I should be feeding them something different. I sure miss my little Splish

Im very sorry Splish didn't make it . i hope these two will be allright and that the new friend came from a good healthy tank at your lfs so shes not carrining any disease. If your water is fine, concentrate on getting a variety of food for them- I alternate several kinds and peas once a week.Keep an eye on the pH so that iis not changing all the time which will weaken them and make sure you have plenty of air in there.Dont forget to keep up the small water changes every few days and to rinse out the filter sponge gently in used tank water (very important )every few weeks. Dont get new sponge filter evry time as your filter media carries all the good bacteria that will help your fish keep healthy . Sorry if you know any of this already I wanted to reiterate as its sometimes easierto revue in one post. Keep us informed how things go.

i am so sorry i know just how you feel i am sure most of us do.. just remember that you did all that you could...and you baby was lucky to have a parent that tried it all. i am sorry

Thanks for all your encouragement. I'm so lucky to have found such a great website with such supportive people! I do feel comforted in knowing that I did all I could do for little Splish. I think maybe it all started when the nitrites were high......it just went downhill from there. My other goldie, along with the new friend, are sitting at the bottom of the tank this morning. I thought I'd do a small water change this evening. Do you think I should I add salt? The parameters are good. Thanks for your help.

Yes definitely. The thing with aquarium/rock salt is it doesn't hurt the fish if they are not in fact sick. Are there any symptoms on the fish now like cloudy eyes, red spots etc? If not salt the tank to .1% now and to .2% tomorrow night. To .3% the next day.You should leave 12 hrs between each salting. I do have a fish sleeps on the bottom sometimes but usually bottom resting is a sign something is up. Salting might be all you need if there are no obvious symptoms and your parems are good as you say. Keep up the small water changes every few days making sure you add the correct salt ammount back in. I know you know about the salt as you did it for Splish before.

I don't see anymore signs.......just sitting at the bottom. Still eating good and gets pretty active when I feed them. I added 30 tsp salt this evening (dissolved) and I'll do it again tomorrow. Should I still add back the salt that I remove when I do the small water changes? I think I did with little Splish. By the way, I've never mourned the death of a fish before. Will I feel better soon? I see the same response on alot of the posts I've read.........GUILT! Why didn't I do this, maybe I should have done that, why did I wait so long, etc. It's really hard trying to trouble shoot a little fish.

I know it's too late for Splish, but I thought this picture might help someone else. (I hope it works!)

Awww Cristi - I'm so sorry Splish was such a little cutie...

Trinket's given you excellent advice so try to keep an eye out on both your guys because bottom sitting isn't a great sign unfortunately.

Salting is an excellent suggestion.

It's really hard when we lose one no? I've not lost many (touch wood) but the couple I've lost were very special to me and I found myself apologising to them when they died - especially as I couldn't help in the end. I realise that's a natural reaction though and guilt soon turns to sadness - so I know how your feeling right now. You really did do everything you could so gave him the very best chance he had..

Please keep us posted on how your guys fare - hopefully it's nothing and they'll pick up soon

Oops, sorry Trinket. I just read your post again where you told me to add the salt back in so just ignore the question. I'm just not with it these days!

Aww, I know just how you feel. When I lost my first fish I cried for 3 days. No kidding. It is heartbreaking. Goldfish are so little and dependant on us for everything. You did what you could and you know- you gave Splish a lovely spacious home for the time he had. When I started I had no idea goldfish needed so much space and had mine in a very crowded tank

So let's get these 2 back swimming around. As Jen says, the salt should do it Keep us posted!

Well, I thought my 2 were doing okay, but I came in yesterday evening and they were sitting at the bottom of the tank......again. I did a 30% water change this morning and added salt, doubled the Prime so we'll see how they do. I posted somewhere about not being sure if I'm feeding them right but I'm not sure what happened to it. I'm soaking their tetra flakes and bought some shrimp pellets one day last week. I'm feeding them 2x/day, but they eat really fast. I'm going to try to find my other post, maybe it has been moved. Thanks!

Sorry to hear that Cristi. I'll have a look for the other thread you did about food as getting the feeding right is something that takes time to get use to. If you overfeed theres a danger that the ammonia and then nitrites will surge again. Mmm, I'll go look for your post...

Have you thought maybe the filter is a bit too powerful and is tiring them out? Or perhaps they aren't getting enough darkness time to rest? Sounds like you're giving them great care and attention so it could be something really simple like that!

No, I hadn't thought about that. I guess I shouldn't have bought a new pump yesterday for a "bubble curtain" I thought more O2 would help so I bought a small pump (for a 20 gallon) and hooked only the bubble curtain up to it. The filter is a Whispter 20/40 and my aquarium is 30 gallons. The light is left on all night, but I usually turn it off during the day. Maybe they need to be in the dark more? When I came in this evening, they were both sitting on the bottom and one of them as red spots on him!

Can you describe the red spots Cristi? How large are they and where are they on the fish?

Your filter and airbubble wand will be great for them. Sick fish need more air so don't wory about having added the bubble wand. Your tank is big enough to give them a still area. Red spots can be caused by ammonia. Any chance of another picture?

Red spots are usually associated with bacteria or infectious parasites.... How does the poop look?

I know we've probably covered this off but what meds do you have on hand?

There's a red spot on his back and one on his side. They look like little blood blisters. This morning, he looks swollen and he's not moving around. Just sitting on the bottom. I checked the params again this morning and they're all good. The only meds I have are salt and Quick Cure. The ingredients say Formalin, Malachite Green. I put a some of that in there last night I he looks worse this morning! I'll try to get a picture this evening.

Malachite green contains formalin which is basically formaldehyde gas (in water) and is highly toxic to fish and people unless used exactly according to the instructions. Used properly, its effective for many parasitic infections. You'll need to cover the tank as the medicine works much better in the dark. Formalin requires extra aeration especially at high temps in the summer. It is caustic and can burn so dont let it near your skin
or drop on carpets etc.

Oh dear, I was hoping we could solve this with the salt. Salt is soooo effective for body sores!!However if the fish has parasites (bottom sitting forever) then the malachite will be a good choice dosed correctly.I am sorry Jen is not on right now but she will be soon.
-from Imogen

I came home at lunch and my fish was stuck to the filter! I turned it off and did a massive water change because I was afraid that I had used too much Quick Cure. Added some aquarium salt and doubled the Prime. I left the filter off when I went back to work. This evening he was stuck behind the bubble curtain...which doesn't seem to be working very well. It really looks like this one is going to die soon, too. Any suggestions?

It doesn't sound good. You want to make him as comfortable as possible. I would stop the meds alltogether -for a fish this weak they may tip him over the edge. Salt to .3% and keep doing small water changes daily-
replacing the salt removed. The air bubbles are important and so is the filter. If you had a partition you could put it infront of the filter tube to block the fish from it but you must only use aquarium safe product for that...how is the other fish doing??? Fingers crossed for you.

I just thought..if the other fish is sick too but not like quite as bad as this one you'll need to use the meds
Can you get back very soon with info on the other fish ?

I think it's bacterial and unfortunately the meds you're using won't help. Plus salt and malachite green shouldn't be mixed together - so as Trinket says, try to get the meds out of the water, or you could move him to a tub of really clean water making sure to match both temperature and ph.

I would (if you can) go with a bacterial med such as maracyn Plus and keep the water perfect. You can use maracyn and salt together but again, as Trinket says, air is extremely important now - the meds will be reducing the oxygen in the water.

Is there any way you can get some Maracyn Plus?

Yep I forgot that salt and malachite mixed is not a good idea. Completely fresh water for both fish as Jen says matching the pH and temperature when you do that -that is important. Put the bubble wand in with him.

Can you get the Maracyn Plus? If not salt while you wait till you can.

Also what condition is the other fish in now?

The other fish is not good, but doesn't seem to be as bad. He's sitting on the bottom most of the time, but still swims up to eat. The really sick one was stuck to the filter again this morning, so I turned it off. I guess I shouldn't have though. He was upside down! I think it's too late for him but maybe I can save the other one if I do everything right. I looked at some pictures that people had posted of dropsy and I think that's what he has. He looks swollen and I think he has popeye too, but maybe that's just my imagination. Now, what I can do to start trying to save the other one? I did add a little more salt this morning. I'll try to find the Maracyn Plus at lunch and run home. Just so I understand.....I can use that with salt and should I still use (what was it) 30 tsp per gallon? Here's another thought and I may be way off base. The aquarium was given to me and it had been setting for a long time. The guy even just let the water evaporate for the most part. It was dirty but I cleaned it really good. Surely by now, bacteria isn't still lurking in there??? I've had it up and running for several months. It's just so strange because the params are good.

What did you use to clean it with originally? Soap traces would be dangerous for example.

I think what happened was first you cycled the tank with the fish in. That weakened the fishes immunity.. Also you introduced the new fish without quarantining. Its best usually to keep a new fish separate as many are carrying infections from the cramped and imperfect set ups at the store. You can add the new fish after a month or 3 weeks if they display no symptoms...

Anyway whats done is done and we have all been there. It's good you are reading other info round the forums as you'll be well equipped for the future.

So, one fish is bad but not as bad...well Jen recommended the Maracyn so try to get it soooon. Meanwhile you could do a massive water change thereby throwing out a lot of lurking bacteria. 100% would be great if you can be SURE that you can match pH (do you still have that kit?) and temperature. You could do this by placing the fish in a bucket of tank water with the air wand . Then, clean the tank out and add fresh tested water with 1 teaspoon of salt per gallon so 30 level teaspoons .

Next, cup the fish in a plastic clean container and over a period of about 3 minutes-or longer if you can, add some tank water to the cup and then ,very, very slowly release them from the container back into the clean water in the tank.

If you can do all this (& please check pH- a sick fish will die with any extra stress of change so everything must be gradual)get the meds and post back by which time Jen will be back to help talk you through the meds .

Good advice Trinket

Do you have carbon in your filter? If so, remove it during treatment and try to increase the air. If you can't find maracyn plus, then try to get your hands on maracyn I and II and dose together.

Dropsy isn't always terminal so medicating soon is key. Are they still eating? Or is the little sick one beyond that stage now? I would remove him to a clean tub and keep an eye on him. Try to refresh his water regularly so the parameters don't get toxic. Then when you medicate the tank, try putting him back and see if the meds help. For the one that's still eating (an assumption only), it would be good if you could get some medicated food such as metro-meds - especially as they are ingested so can treat bacteria in conjunction with the maracyn.

Oh no, he died too! All I can do now is to try and save the other one. I bought some Maracyn 2. The instructions say to use 2 tablets for every 10 gallons the first day, so I dropped in 6 because I have a 30 gallon tank. Nothing happened, no fizzing, they don't even look like they're dissolving. Is that the way they work? I just dropped them in. I thought I'd try this first because the other looks like he's about gone, too. He's not as swollen and he doesn't have popeye, but he's just sitting at the bottom, gasping for air.

I'm so sorry Cristi

Can you pull the tablets back out? You'll need to dissolve them first otherwise they won't do any good. Swish them around in a tub of clean water first and then pour throughout the water... The fizzy ones are jungle tablets

Too late. I'll get some more today. He looks worse though. He has red streaks down the side of his body. From what I've read here... is that some sort of intenal infection and if so, what could have caused it?

If he is still eating try him with medicated food medigold or metromeds.It will help combat internal infection.

What are your water parameters as of today?

It sounds like a nasty bacteria but could also include water quality so try and check your parameters frst...

Just on the meds, if you swish your hand around the tank, it'll stir up the meds - all you have to do is try and get it from settling on the substrate

Nitrites and ammonia are 0, ph is 7.2. I hope I didn't overdose on the Maracyn. When I thought it wasn't going to work since I didn't dissolve it first, I bought some more and re-did the 1st day treatment...which is double the next few day's treatments! He's still staying on the bottom, but he did come up to eat this evening. Those red streaks that I thought were on the side of his body.......they're actually on his little fins and underneath one of his gills. Am I still doing the right thing using t he maracyn?

Based on the dosage - how much do you have in the tank? You can calculate how much should be in there and do a waterchange to bring you to the correct level. I would continue medicating ....

Is there any chance you can post a pic?

Ok, I'm trying to send a pic from photo bucket but I can't find the instructions that were given to me previously. Can someone help? Thanks..........



Hey, it worked!

The pics are great and very helpful. he looks very stressed band sad but not as far as I can see beyond help! Thats good. Can you do what Jen said and try and get the meds exactly right? I know you are trying so hard here and theres so much to remember...please try and keep going with the exact med dose- I am sooooo hoping we an save this baby- he is so very, very cute


Also hun, if you can cover the tank half where he is lieing so it is in the dark. this helps to keep the fish calm
and activates the meds so they can work most efficiently

You can cover it with something thats not going to fall in or have a strong smell. A dark color clean towel ontop of a piece of glass would be best for example.

Thank you! I truly hope he's not beyond help. I'm trying soooo hard, (and learning sooooooo much). I'll go turn out the light and cover that half of the tank. Will it have the same effectiveness if I just skip a day with the meds since I basically put 2 day's worth in yesterday? I really hate to change the water unless it's absoluetly necessary. It stresses him so much! But, if that's what I need to do, I'll do it. I vacuumed the gravel the other day and there was alot of gunk in there.

You need to do it. I know its stressful but much more stressfull is the wrong dose and or bad water. The meds work in perfect water best.

If you 've just done a gravel vac then try removing 50% of the water from the top with a plastic cup or small clean plastic bucket. It is less stressful than the pump. You can take out half the water very gently like that without disturbing him. He will be more comfy in the dark while you are doinfg that the other end of the tank. Then you can leave him a bit till meds need redoing . Jen'll be back later to help there.

(I have 2 x 30 gallon tanks so i know the size and it doesn't take so long to take the water out this way.)
post back with any more q's if needed.

Thank you! I truly hope he's not beyond help. I'm trying soooo hard, (and learning sooooooo much). I'll go turn out the light and cover that half of the tank. Will it have the same effectiveness if I just skip a day with the meds since I basically put 2 day's worth in yesterday? I really hate to change the water unless it's absoluetly necessary. It stresses him so much! But, if that's what I need to do, I'll do it. I vacuumed the gravel the other day and there was alot of gunk in there.

Hmm, not sure how I got my last reply posted twice......I'm a little stressed, too! Okay, I changed 50% of the water, added Prime but no salt. That was a great idea! I think keeping him covered made him feel safer. He did get up and swim around a little, but he's resting now. Now, do I just keep up with the Maracyn and not worry about the salt? Also, I bought the last box of Maracyn 2, but I bought another box of Maracyn. The instructions say that they can be used together. Is that okay, or should I try to find some more Maracyn 2?

PLEASE HELP! He's much worse since I changed the water! He's curled up in a "C" shape on the bottom. The gravels are in his eye because he's practically on his side. What should I do? He's head also looks like a blood blister...rather than just his fins. I'm going to try to post a pic.