On one side of Verity (female betta) just above where her stomach would be and just behind her pectoral fins she's developing quite a big bump, its about 5mm along and 3mm wide. Theres a line of scales raised where the lump is at its sticky-out-y-est, but its not dropsy.
Shes in 5G with 3 corys and one oto.
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5-10
pH 7.8
I thought I saw some sort of fungus or something on the outside and figured it might be some sort of bacterial thing on the inside, so I treated with eSha 2000 fungus and bacterial stuff (3 day course). If anything the lump has got bigger.
She's acting/eating/swimming perfectly normally.
I can try and get a picture today.
If I look at her side-on with a light source behind her (I can see her insides quite well as she's a light bodied fish) the lump seems to be full of nothing, or fluid.
Could it be a tumor or something? ..Its just problem after problem with this fish

im not sure but it sounds like a tumor. i dont know how that is treated but i think i read somewhere of a successful goldfish tumor removal. i hope everything turns out good with her!

lol, if it came to having to do surgury on her I would do it. She's special.

aw thats so sweet! i have faith in her recuperation!

Yea I hate to say it to but it is most likley a tumor. I have a male betta for 6 years and he developed a tumor in the same area, then it got bigger and he couldn't swim without getting tired out and he died about 5 months after it developed. I called my vet when he was still alive and they said it was a tumor to but she didn't do the fish thing. But I hope your little girl gets better!

Hi Lucy, I'm sorry Verity has a lump I really hope it's not a tumour but it's hard to know what else it could be as you've excluded some of the more obvious causes.

I think I would probably stop using medications for now as they're unlikely to treat it and just watch and see what happens, maybe just medicate for any secondary symptoms if necessary.

As you said she's swimming and eating normally so there is not much else you can do for now other than look after her as best you

can

aww ok Thanks guys. I'll keep an eye on it for any changes.

Edit: actually there was a change i noticed last night, it seems to be darker something in there not fluidy type stuff, so even more likely to be a tumor.

I got some pics of this thing..

Oh dear Lucy, it's much larger and lower down the body than I thought. I'm not sure what else it could be other than a growth

Yea, it is like a dark lump of something inside the lump.. Is there anyway to remove it, or do I just wait and see what happens?

I'm really not too sure what you can do about it, if you had a fish vet nearby you could ask his opinion or maybe a local breeder might know what to do. I think personally, I would just wait and see for now, it's a hard one to call..

Thanksmrbumblebee
There's a huuuge betta section on another forum I visit, I might post there too and see what they think about treatment.

Weeeell, it got bigger.. and bigger, she was swimming tilted at one point it was so big. But now its smaller but there seems to be another one developing on her other side but further down her body. as if its shifted over or something. I guess this means its something other than a tumor?

I was just thinking about Verity the other day. Did you get any information from the other forum?

This lump sounds weird, I'll just throw this in, but could it just be constipation or a blockage or something, I mean if it's moving around and everything and it is just under the stomach region right?

The other forum suggested using antibiotics for two weeks and if its not gone then just leave it.. and under no circumstances try to remove it!

I'm starting to think it might be a blockage of some sort. She's eaten a load of sand before and got really fat, I thought she had dropsy and put her in QT and the next day she pooped out a pile of sand. I wont feed her for a few days and see if it changes. Maybe a bit of pea.

Maybe it is a blockage of some kind, especially if she has a history of eating sand! I just think it's very suspicious that it's moving around so much in that one area, unless it's fluid filled or something? I think starving her sounds like a good idea, just for now and then feeding a pea to try and push things through. Good luck with her Lucy, I do hope she gets better

Thanks MrBee

Poor Verity! That girl's been through so much. I hope she recovers soon

aww thanks Kissy
I'm gonna get some more pics of her showing both her lumps soon.

Got some more pics, the new one is getting huge..
The new lump is on her left side (at the top of this pic)


You can see how stick-y out-y it is and how it looks to be full of fluid or something in this pic


..and this one


..big.


I'm quite scared theres some big worm or something living in there and its moving about making new bumps *shivers at the thought*

They are getting bigger aren't they, I think they look to be moving further down her body as well, the newer one is quite a way down the body isn't it? I can't see it from the picture, but you think it's fluid-filled then Lucy? I'm really not sure what it is, I really hope someone can work it out though

BTW Did you starve her for a while in the end, any difference?

Yea, its further down. I had to just feed her a couple of tiny flakes to distract her while chucking the corys food in, other than that, she was starved and fed pea. It didnt make much difference. I'm still not feeding her much.
You know when you get a spot/pimple that is really far under the skin and starts to come to the surface.. it kinda reminds me of that. Its like she has boils on her or something.

We're not having much luck coming up with a diagnosis or treatment, maybe you need to ask a fishy-vet, do you have one locally? Or you could try asking here if you've not already, most of these guys are breeders

http://forum.ukbetta.co.uk/

Just a thought...do you think her kidney's could be failing? I remember hearing that when that happens their sides bulge out, but then you'd think they'd the parallel to eachother...

mmm..

Thanks for the link, I've asked them there too now

I'm gonna try and find a diagram of a betta's insides and find the kidneys, anyone know of one?

Edit: found one! http://www.bubblenest.net/betta_anatomy2.jpg So the first one would be near her liver.. and the second near where it says testes on here, but shes a she. So I dunno..

Lucy, has she developed any other symptons since the lumps started to appear?

wow that is strange . Do you feed your corries alge wafers? that was my first thought is she might have scarfed some of it down, but that would not account for it being so far down on her body and the lump not being in equal places on both sides. I hope you find out what is wrong with her soon so you can help her. may use your diagram of the betta's insidie as a post so others can see. Is that o.k. with you?

I found the diagram on google, so yea, do what you like with it

I dont feed them algae wafers. She does eat their pellets, but she's always done that and whenever it made her fat it would be gone the next day.. I'm quite sure this isnt to do with her intestines.

There are no other syptoms, apart from her being a bit slower and resting a lot, probably because they are so big.

I did a little digging and found this link for you
http://www.fishjunkies.com/Disorders/lumps.php
http://www.fishjunkies.com/Infections/viral.php#nodes

aw thanks Kris
That first link is scary, that poor turqoise fish as the bottom Verities looks most like the celophane coloured fish there. Its not Lymhocystis as those grow out of the body, like a popped whitehead.

think it could be dropsy then? like the lumps in the one pic?

hmm, well I spose thats what it'd be called, but dropsy is just an umbrella term for anything that causes swelling of the body I think.. so I still need to figure the cause (bacterial/viral/cancerous or whatever).

Normally when you see sudden bumps and such appear,it tends to be more bacterial. What was the treatment Lucy that you used for three days? Have you seen this fish pooping-is he normal?

I used eSHa2000 bacterial stuff.. http://www.eshalabs.com/esha2000.htm
I haven't seen her poop I dont think, but she got smaller so she must have done if it was a blockage?
Should I treat again?

I thought it might be some kind of internal bacterial infection as well, but with none of the other external symptoms it does seem strange. Along with the fact the swellings seem to be moving along her body, I agree Lucy they must be fluid filled. Can she still balance and swim properly now?

Lucy did you ever figure out what was wrong with your poor fishy?

I was having a closer look at her new one last night and it is definatly fluid filled, its like a purple colour inside, then a clear colour our the edge of that, like a clear dome over it making it a lump. Would that be bacterial?

..Edit: this really isnt getting anywhere is it..

Hi Lucy. I noticed Devs is on right now and she is more knowledgable about disease. hopefully she will see your thread and I know she will be able to help you

I think the best thing you can do now Lucy is try to find a vet who treats fish and seek their opinion on it, other wise it's just blind treatment without really knowing what is going on, at least that way will give Verity the best chance of recovering

yeah, they wont charge me for their opinion will they? I have no money

Yeah, it's tough isn't it, everything costs. You might find a nice one who won't charge just for taking a quick look at her though, otherwise what about the RSPCA or something , don't they have subsidised vets? Not sure if they cover fish though?

Is there a vet school about? They maybe willing to look at her as a learning experinence for students in fishy medicine

I found a very interesting website about bettas disease that lets you ask questions and post pics. here it is . Maybe they can help
http://www.swishfish.com/diseases.html

I went to the web link I gave you and put in her symptoms of a fluid filled body growth and it gave the possible results of sprozoan (muscle lesionm nodule disease)
here is a link with more info on it
Sporozoan cysts: Nodular disease
Description
Sporozoans of the myxopsporidia (myxozoa) and microsporidia types are often incidental findings in fish, both cultured and wild. In many cases they don't cause much problem to the fish. Many are host specific and will only infect certain classes of fish. Many are also tissue-specific. Some cause what have been called nodular diseases because they cause localized swellings when they infect a cell or tissue.



Symptoms
Smooth yellowish-white cysts on the body, fins, gills, internal organs, or in muscle. They can vary in size from a few mm to a centimeter across, and can be spherical, oval, or irregular in shape. Each cyst contains thousands of parasitic spores.



Treatment
Unfortunately, there is no reliable treatment for this type of disease. Where the swellings remain localised, fish may live relatively comfortably for extended periods.



See also:

Henneguya
Glugea


REFERENCES
Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc. Nodular Diseases, www.aquariumpharm.com
Vicki S. Blazer Major Infectious Diseases of Fish, Armed Forces Insitute of Pathology.


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was wondering how your fisht was doing

Sorry i didnt realise there were replies on here
anyway..
RSPCA dont cover fish at all really.
I dont know about any vet schools.. one of my college lecturers is a vet nurse, but its summer holidays.. plus shes about 8 months pregnant so wont be in for quite a while.
Kris, that could be it.. I'll do some research on that. Thanks

o.k. just worried about your baby. hope everything turns out all right

Sporozoan Nodular Disease is supposed to be rare, but I remember maybe 6 months ago there were several members that believe their goldfish came down with it. If I remember correctly, it is sometimes transferred by unsanitary food, like tubifex. Have you ever fed her or any tankmates that? Does she have any other tankmates? The disease is almost always fatal, but they seem to live and feel fine and have a sudden death. Its highly contagious so any fish that comes in contact with her water may get it. Some fish seem to have built up an immunity so they don't get sick (in the very least, not right away) but can carry it and it is passed on to new tankmates.

Lemme see if I can dig up a thread..

EDIT: found it. http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...sporozoan&st=40 Its a pretty lengthy and sad thread, but hopefully it will help. The pictures are gone, but maybe if you pm Chishower she'll send you some if she still has them.

Thankyou Lauren
If this is this thing and its highly contagious.. most of my fish are going to die. I use the same syphon for all the tanks and I've moved plants around.
I have fed them freezedried tubifex lately.. probably around the time the lump first appeared. I always knew the dangers of tubifex, I just found it hard to believe as I thought all dead foods are gamma rayed so everything is killed.. apparently not.
I'll do a thorough check of everyone for lumps tonight.
ARRRGGHHH.
So I treat as if it was dropsy (not easy as we dont have the maracyns here), or shall I try some parasite med?
Shall I isolate her or treat the whole tank? (also hard as there are corys with her.. as far as i can see they dont have any lumps).
Would salting/treating other tanks work as a precaution?

I am so sorry about Verity. I posted some info on the sprozoan disease I don't know if you saw it in this thread. The article I pasted to this link says there is no treatemen for it but that can't be right. It is a mass caused by a parasite if I I read right. I wonder if your treat for parasites using meds and medicated food it might help.. Counldn't hurt. I tried freeze dried tubifex worms with my goldies once but after I saw Sandy's ( I think it was Sandy who had a post on it a while back)post about how the worms are raised in sewage it turned me off to them.