Hello from Oz! Two weeks ago we set up our fish tank - we are having some problems and we are only beginners, so we would really appreciate some advice. We only have a basic test kit so we dont have all the info you need but here goes...

Test Results for the Following:
Ammonia Level? don't have test kit
Nitrite Level? [i]likewise
Nitrate level? [i]as above
Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? neutral
Ph Level out of the Tap?
Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? 80 litres (20gall?) running two weeks
What is the name and size of the filter/s? 300 litres per hour, Jebo R338
How often do you change the water and how much? only once in two weeks
How many fish in the tank and their size? 11 fish, 48 cm in total (12 inches approx?)... oh and two snails
What kind of water additives or conditioners?
Any medications added to the tank? We have just added 4 tablespoons of aquarium salt
Add any new fish to the tank?
What do you feed your fish? gold fish flakes
Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt",
bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? 4 have fraying tails, one fantail is quite bad and he has a blood streak on his tail and is swimming erratically, we called him Rudolph Nureyev as we thought he liked to dance! He spins around
Any unusual behavior like staying
at the bottom, not eating, ect..? not really

We have been given all of these fish who were unwanted, and we are novices. We may have left the water too long (two weeks), so once the first fish got sick we did a partial water change (30%). When we got home tonight we noticed that there were other fish that are starting to get frayed tails, although they are not sick like Rudolph. (I forgot to mention that Rudolph is a fantail. We have three of these, a few comets and a black one with bulging eyes - we don't know what he is.) We have put some salt in the water tonight, in the hope that will do something. Is there anything else we should do?
Thanks.

Hi there fishnchips and

There's a few things working against you unfortunately so I will try to itemise them with an explanation

- You have a 20 gallon tank which is only large enough to house 2 fish (1 fish per 10 gallons) so you are unfortunately way beyond overstocked and this leads to the second big problem

- new tank means no cycle. The nitrogen cycle is important as it converts harmful ammonia (fish waste) to nitrites then to nitrates. Once you tank has cycled, ammonia will read 0 and nitrities will read 0 while nitrates can read anywhere from 20 below if waterchanges are complete weekly

- the biggest problem with being overstocked in an uncycled tank is the ammonia your fish are producing will be at deadly levels as will be the nitrite levels which is the second phase.

Is there any way you can get a bigger tank? Or is there anyone else you can donate some of the fish to? Unfortunately with that many fish, getting them well will be hard but a good place to start is with 70% waterchanges daily. This will dilute the harmful levels of ammonia and nitrites until your tank is cycled and cycling a tank can take up to 8 weeks (until your filter houses enough good bacteria to handle the conversion)

So I would start with a massive waterchange and continue with these daily... Another invaluable thing to have is test kits for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates..

Also, what kind of dechlorinator are you using?

Please post back soon

Crikey. We have been told two different formulas, one that says we could have a certain amount of fish relating to surface area (I think it worked out to 40cm of fish to the surface area we have of 25 x 40 cm. ) We thought that equated to 40 cm of fish, but we have 48.

Also another was to volume - 2.5 cm of fish for four litres of water which means 50 cm of fish.

Anyway, obviously these were off the mark, hence the problem. The declorinator that we have is called Ammonia Remover. My husband put some in when he did the water change.

We will buy the kit tomorrow - meantime it looks as though Rudolph won't make it through the night.

Thanks for your advice, we will start with the water changes and see if they improve any.

It seems as if this whole process is harder than we thought! Poor fish.

Just an update, we put Rudolph in a smaller tank that we had (14L) and actually looks alot better this morning, but still a bit funny.

Should we feed him? Is there any medicine we can get, or should we just change the water regularly in the hope that he keeps improving?

Or (gulp) is it too late?

It's never too late - ever

It's amazing how improved water conditions can help your fish and changing his water daily will be key to his improvement.

So keep perservering on that front and hopefully he'll pull through for you.

Just on the stocking levels - you can have more tropical fish in a tank as they produce less waste but with goldfish, you need more water volume to handle the enormous amount of waste they produce (ammonia).

Goldies have the ability to grow large and can live for many years, but it all depends on their conditions. You can find that an enormous goldie is even too big for 10 gallons of water. Another thing that helps them thrive is adding filtration that turns over 10 times the volume of the tank. I use this as a minimum and for example, I keep 6 fish in my 60 gallon and have filtration that turns over 875 gallons per hour (possibly a bit overkill...) They're growing healthy and large and this in turn reduces the amount of worry for their health. The biggest problem with overstocking is the high mortality rate in our finned friends. They will suffer and eventually die without the right conditions. A tank is such an unnatural body of water and if you think about that many fish in 20 gallons, all producing waste - then the pollution level of the tank would be in the deadly range. First you will notice lethargy, then finrot, then clamped fins and at this stage, their immunity has hit rock bottom. When their immunity is at this level, then illness strikes and quickly

So keeping up the waterchanges is the best way forward and my fingers are crossed that your fish hangs in there to swim another day

Does your water conditioner bottle say that it removes chlorine? If it just removes ammonia that ay help with the cycling but you need a water confitioner that removes chlorine, and ideally, chloramines as well. I have not heard of the particular brand you are using (which means nothing, esp. since you are in Oz) so I was just checking!

Good luck with your fish!

Thanks for your advice Jen's.
Sadly Rudolph died this morning. Everything you say makes alot of sense. We were given this tank by my husbands aunty. She had almost 20 fish in it, many of which had died, obviously due to overcrowding.

We will continue with the water changing, and try and rehome some of the fish, as well as getting a proper test kit etc.

Can I just ask you about the salt again? We have read that they should have salt in their tanks every now and then to keep healthy and kill any bugs. Is this true?

About the conditioner, it just says on the bottle that it removes ammonia. We will look for some better stuff now we know a bit more about what we are looking for. This is an expensive exercise!

I'm sorry your fish didn't make it

Jen's absolutely right, a good dechlorinator is so important - especially in Australia.

I think your plan is a sound one, if you can find homes for the majority it would help them out enormously.

With salt, I would only add it if a fish has scraped his skin or if I quarantine a new fish and want to put them in a 0.3% salt solution before introducing them into one of my tanks. It also helps against nitrites in the water plus it can kill many parasites. So it's one of the most natural yet beneficial tonics/meds we have and works well

I'm hoping all works out with your fish and please, keep us posted

I am sorry to hear about Rudolph. But the good thing is that you are here and learning all the things you need to have healthy and happy goldfish! Maybe you will get lucky (?) and not become addicted like so many of us...but we'll see!

I don't know if they carry Prime in Australia, it is an excellent water conditioner that removes chlorine and chloramines, plus turns ammonia and nitrotes into less toxic things, which can be very helpful while you are cycling a tank. But not sure if they have it there or not.

Good luck with your future fish endeavors and definitely keep us posted. I love how you said "Thank you for your advice Jens" LOL!

Indeed Prime is sold globally and I've been using it for years It really is the best dechlorinator in my book.

Please keep us posted on how you get on - I'm hoping the news turns out well

Dear Jens,

Thanks again for all your help. Just a quick update. We have found some Prime, and also an ammonia test kit (but not a nitrite).
We have found a home for three of the fish, so we will remove the bigger ones. The prime is fantastic, you were right! We have been checking the ph and the ammonia every second day, the ammonia is now at nil, and the ph is neutral. The fish are looking really healthy, the little splits on some of their tails have healed.

We may slowly be getting the hang of it.

Thanks for this service too, it's brilliant. You guys must be run off your feet answering all of these questions! We (and our fish) appreciate your time.

fishnchips.

How cool of you to come back and update! I am really glad things are going well for you and your fish. Prime is pretty good stuff, I will never use anything else!

This is a really great service, I wish the mods/helpers/experts and especially KOKO got paid for doing this, I know they have saved lots of fishy lives!

Good luck with your fishkeeping and check back in soon, k?

Hi Jen
I hope that I am not over extending my welcome, but I just have one more question.

One of the fish that we have ended up with is a glass catfish. The thing is that, unlike the other fish pictures I have seen on the internet, he does not have any whiskers. Is this normal or an indicator that something is awry?

He is really cute, and I would hate to lose him.

chips.