Hello everyone, I'm new. My goldfish has a lot wrong with her and it's complicated, so I'll start from the top. Her stats are:

Ammonia: ?(not part of multi-test strip)

Nitrite: 0.5ppm

Nitrate: 20ppm

Hardness?: 80ppm

pH: 7.2, maybe more, hard to tell

Alkilinity(?): 40-80ppm, hard to tell

tank size: 10 gallons

filtration: one AquaTech 10 gallon filter with the original media replaced with Ammonia Chips wrapped in synthetic cotton batting. (This method is very sucessful in a 29 gallon with an ammonia chip/carbon mix.)

water changes: we've done none since putting her in the 10 gallon; she's only been there for about 4 days. A week ago the bottom glass was scraped and vaccumed totaling a 33% water change

additives/conditioners: 2 days before putting her in we used 1 packet of 'Cycle. We brought the pH from around 6.4ish to now around 7.4ish the day before putting her in using "pHADJUST up". I don't recall how much seasalt is in but it wouldn't be more than 4 tablespoons.

medications:
...yeah.
A while back she was on the 10gal with 2 packets of Mardel brand Maracyn powder a night for about a week, possibly Melafix on and off. This lasted about 2 weeks. When she stopped eating the first time I moved her back into the 29gal and she ate for me immeadiatly. I left her there about another week while re-prepairing the 10gal (the levels were all shot and the cycle had stopped). I had niticed that She sat in the 29gal for about a week before putting her back in. It was then that I noticed the 'white mold' had cleared significently on one side.

Durring the last 4 nights she has been in the 10gal hospital tank. For the 1st 2 nights, 2 packets of Mardel brand Maracyn powder + 20ml Melafix.
3rd night 2 packets of Maracyn + 30ml Melafix.
Last night, 3 packets of Maracyn+ 30ml Melafix.

food: usually softened blobs of TetraFin Goldfish Crisps followed by 2 frozen peas (thawed, shelled and broken into bitesized bits)

fish: one sweet little redcap ribbontail goldfish of the fancy fantail variety measuring approx. 1.75 inches (4.5cm) from mouth to backside of body.

symptoms:
Had problems with a VERY big oranda in the 29gal bulleying her badly for a long time. Mistakenly treated for septecemia far too long, hope she has kidneys (I'm very angry at the Oranda!!!). After trying to re-introduce her _again_ with the same result more severe, she was put into the 10 gallon 4 days ago.

Has had what seems to be *swim bladder disease for about a year now, starting to develop not long after we got her. She now requires plain glass; the substrate was scratching her badly. Unfortunately because of this, the open glass collects a slimy bacteria on it, and she developed a *white "mold" on both sides. The side lying on the glass is worse; taller, more prominent and attaching to the gillplate, (going underneath?/ not pretty). It's worst in spots rubbing on the glass. She is *active as she can be; spins around in little circles (cute but sad), occasionally bounces up a bit.
*Eyes bulged out twards the sides about 3mm. Possibly a white ring around the edges, but "sides" of protruding eyes seem black. Actual irises seem brown (like me :))

All of these symptoms have been constent for some time. My main concern is that now she has once again stopped eating. She hasen't eaten for me in 3 days.

My plan to help beat the fuzz is to build a sling for her. I think we might be near sucess and my brother and I are alsmost done, but there is no way of knowing and I can no longer rely on that as a remedy now that she has stopped eating. I tried putting her back in the 29gal again last night to no sucess and moved her back down for the night.

The way the feeding (usually) works is that I pick her up in one hand, and take a pinch of food to her mouth, and she sucks it into her mouth. Within the last 3 days she has stopped swallownig it; she just keeps it in her mouth a bit and spits it out. Now she's not even trying. I'm concerned because I don't see that she's leaving any excrement as of late. Before, it would be a healthy pink color ( the color of the crisps).

Is there a more... invasive/... agressive(?) approach I can take to feeding her? (Can you force-feed a fish??) I'd give her more peas, but she won't take those either.

Also, I hate to bring it up, but is there a non-invasive test for cancer?

I understand that this is an unusual case (that's what I've gathered from several chats with petstore owners). I'm shure everyone here is very attached to their respective fish, but honestly, I've bonded with her a lot from holding her in my hand every night for an hour or so for the last year. I'm shure you all understand how attached I am to her. Any help and advice would be appretiated. Thanks a lot everyone.

Hi and welcome to Koko's! I am so very sorry to hear about your sick fish! Sounds like she's been through the ringer and so have you! I would first start with an immediate water change but I do not know how this would affect the medicine! As the tank is still cycling you need to get down the nitrite and ammonia to zero. I have not had to medicate my fish other than increased salt as yet (knock on wood) so I do not know the specifics on the treatment. I am sure that someone much more experienced than I will come along soon to help! I would guess that you would need to medicate your larger tank too?? I wish I could be of more help! I will be following your post and wishing you good luck!

Hi Edk and

Have you removed the glass from her tank yet?
Also, what kind of sling are you building for her? Any sling you build and place her in will remove her protective slime coat so perhaps some clarification here?

It sounds like she has a lot going on and to be honest, I would take a big step back and start from scratch eg.

- start with perfect water ie. no ammonia and no nitrites
- remove all the meds and go with a fungus clear (or a med that specifically targets fungus)
- keep up the waterchanges so that her water remains perfect

As for feeding:

- when my fish was ill, I would mash up some food and use one of those plastic medicine syringes and slowly squirt the mashed up food into her mouth. At first she would spit it out but eventually, she kept some down.

So in summary, I would try to get her water perfect. Adding too many things ie. salt, maracyn and melafix - may be having an adverse affect on her. There's a lot going on there which is why taking that deep breath, step back and starting from scratch may help her. In a lot of cases, just having perfect water can be the best cure and then if you find the symptoms don't improve, treat the symtom you see with one specific treatment - this may help her.

I hope she pulls through this - she sounds lovely

Sorry for the confusion. I haven't added glass, just removed all the substrate. Extreme, I know, but it was a quick fix for a complex problem. I also believe that is why the tank does not cycle like a normal one. This explains my slime theory, and adds to the statment that she will probably never fully recover from the fungus untill I get her off the bottom. It appears that as she makes those cute little circles, she litteraly scrapes the "slime" (I found this to be bacteria) onto herself. But if I use substrate she scratches and breaks fins (they are so fragile on ribbontails! I had no idea. She's like a butterfly.... and I'm gushing). Can I add sterile substrate and have it cycled in time to save her?

Hence the sling idea. I know It works, I've read and viewed pictures of 2 instences of this method being sucessful on 2 fish, though they are substantially larger. The biggest obsticles are her tiny, tiny size and her extremely delecate fins. But the sling is almost done. All that's left is a forehead strap that needs to be taken in a bit so she dosen't fall out. (She dosen't like that).
Here is my inspiration, though my sling model is very diffrent:
Katie's Crazy Goldfish- Addy1
Katie's Crazy Goldfish- Addy2


This brings me to another question: The process of me trying to tie her up seems stressful to her (obviously) and her struggling makes it impossible for me to work. Is there anything safe I can give her to calm her down while I put it on her?

and thanks for the responses!!

Can I be honest? I would give the sling idea a miss and go with a bare bottom tank for now. Fish don't pick up bacterial slime from the base of a tank or substrate. They can get a bacterial infection if there's an open wound and the bacteria that's ever present in our tanks invade but that's why the slime coat is there - to protect them.

To place a sling around a fish is to remove the protective slime coat, plus it will stress her out enormously weakening her immunity. Then with a weakened immunity, more opportunistic organisms will be just waiting to attack her. This is why I would never put my fish through this. If a fish rests on the bottom of a tank - this won't harm them, especially if there's nothing on the base of the tank that can cause trauma to the skin...

If you go barebottom, you can control the environment better and this will be her best chance at battling this.

It sounds like fungus but a picture would help enormously

My dad can get a camera to the house that can take a good quality picture, but I can't say how soon. And I honestly believe that the glass has some significence with the fungus. The fungus is only in patches that touch the glass. I thought this was because of the constant presence of the bacteria. I've noticed things like dirt stick to her before.

Also, the tank requires substrate to cycle. If I leave the floor bare, the tank levels will never be stable for any length of time. Just a thought.

About the sling: other times I have gotten her into the sling and she was very relaxed, though not comfortable. I have fixed the issue with comfort by refining my design several times. It is now more difficult to fall out of and ergonomic. My main challenge is keeping her calm as I put it on. I have a rough drawing superimposed over a picture of a similar fish. It is at a larger scale and crude, but it's pretty close.

Sling for my fish

I just wanted to say that if you have a filter with the proper media in it you can easily cycle a tank with no substrate. You are totally right that gravel does contain the same bacteria that makes/keeps the tank cycled, but a filter with media can do the same job. Several of our members have barebottom tanks and I am setting one up as we speak.

Something else I thought of would be to take some of the gravel out of your other tank, put it into a clean, well-rinsed pantyhose and tie a knot, then set it in the corner of your tank (or you can do multiple bags). That way you are bringing some good bacteria over and the pantyhose will keep your fish safe from hurting herself on the gravel. I have used the pantyhose method to help seed a new tank with bacteria before and it worked well, it just looks kind of odd! But not more odd than a fish in a sling, lol! Ah, the things we will do for our sifh....

I am NOT a fish expert, those were just things that popped into my mind in reading your dilemma. Good luck with your fish!

Jens right - with adequate filtration, there's no need to rely on substrate to help your cycle. I can't agree with the sling concept because it's a short term fix but doesn't address the underlying cause which I've already covered off.

Anyhow, if you can post a pic soon and we can take it from there

Hi Hi Edk,sorry to hear about your fish. Has this fish been laying on the floor of the tank for almost a year now? If it has,it sounds as if it's been severely damaged whether it was from bacterial,etc,or some sort of trauma,and chances are that the fish will never swim right again. I have a small Oranda,that got stuck between a filter months back.Since then,she can not get off the bottom of the tank.It's heartbreaking,and I've tried everything to help her.Apparently though,she had some major damage done to her insides,and the damage can not be fixed. I now keep her in a small tank,and do complete water changes every other day.SHe's quite healthy looking,and eats like a horse,but still cannot swim normal.I have often thought of uthanizing her,and I just can't bring myself to do it,with her being so healthy in every other way.The thing is,that I know she has severe damage that will prevent her from swimming correctly again.
I'm only telling you this story,because it sounds as if your fish has been suffering the same way for a long time,and getting around the bottom of the tank the same way. Your fish has also been put through alot between Meds/changing of tanks/being handled constantly/fittings for jackets/poor water quality,etc.
I'm going to have to agree with Jen here though.
Start from scratch-Pristene water.Do you have a heater in the tank?
I personally have my tank water only half filled.It was originally done to ease some of the pressure off of her-but since then I understand that this disorder now seems to be permanent.
Can you go over and just state her symptom's for us,as I was somewhat confused taking all this in.As for the eyes,do they look like they have donut rings around each of them?Any scales pineconing/red streaks/open sores,etc? Post soon.

The fish showed signs of floating problems within a month of when we took her home., and we've had her more than a year I believe.

I know she won't swim on her own again. (I'm SOOOO close!)

The costant handling is might be damaging to her slime coat, but she only freaks out when I set her down. She usually calms right down if I rest my fingertip on her forehead; don't know why. I test my sling setup about twice within an hour a month apart because I'm such a slow worker/lazy. I could use somthjing to make the process easier. (Hate to sound like a broken record...)

She has a heater rated for 10gal set to 75+ deg F. Placed right under filter.

I live at home with my family, and the 10gal is in the family room. My mom hates loud water noises, so I'd have to be very convincing for her to let me take out half the water. Wouldn't that be counterproductive to diluting ammonia, etc.? I think the faucet water is mostly ok, it comes from a reverse osmosis filter we rent in the basement. I'm also looking into purchasing a small airstone.

No donut rings around the eyes, but they continue protrude 2-3mm.

No streaks.

No open sores best I can tell.

No pineconing

She has white "mold" on her sides. It covers about the aria of a quarter on one side and kind of touches the gillplate. On the other side, which is the side she lays on and rubbs against the glass, the fuzz is spread wider, is more pronounced, has formed 2 sort of raised flat pads at the contact points that form to the glass like they were flattened, and has spread under the gillplate significently.

This is not a symptom= Her tailfin is only 1in long, has splits, no blood or red. The lower portions are permanently creased (more like bent) upward bacause of her position. The reason for the shortness is that we have a 5in Oranda in the 29 gal. He is very very healthy, and very agressive. When he was more her size (he grew fast) he would nudge at her as she tried to swim to the top and gulp air. A few times it worked! But she alwase fell and burped soon after. Now if I don't have her in her seperated, he attacks her voilently, nibbling her fins badly. This happened the day I put her back into the 10gal this last time (about 4 days ago).

Usually she eats from my fingertips, but now she takes food in for a bit and spits it out. Tonight I think she might've eaten 1/2 a pea total.

How is the fish doing now?

She's moving around a little bit more, but she sits there for 80% of the time like usual. Obviously not floating. She ate about 1 pea total last night: slight improvement, but not good enough. Yesterday before the change I did, the water came up 1inch below the black edge. I emptied it bringing it down to 4 inches, then poured clean water back in to about 2.5 inches below the black edge. There's more bubbles from the filter. Fuzz hasn't changed, neither have eyes. Still hopeful. In total, she got 5 clean gallons of pH matched, but chilly water. More later.

Might be a good idea to post the params of the tank again since the water change.

Current stats as of Wednsday, June 6th, 12:15AM are
pH7.8
Alkilinity 0-40 ppm
hardness 25ppm
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0

I have pictures!!!!!!!!!



This 1st picture is of her lying on the bottom of the tank in her usual position. Her tailfin is bent in an odd way, but she's been that way for a while. The whiteish, mold-like fuzz is hard to see. The most prominent part of the fuzz on this side is the yellowish tan blur behind her gilplate. Remember, this side is usualy facing up, and the other side is against the glass.


Same side. Here I have enlarged her gillplate and highlighted an aria in green. This shows where the fuzz used to be inside the gillplate and is now clear, empty gillplate. I *think* that the fuzz killed off this portion.


This image is a diffrent angle of the same side. I enlarged the eye, with the part of the eye that was alwase visable highlighted in red, and the area highlighted in green shows how far the eye has bulged outward on top. Is this serious? I can't tell, and I don't think its recent.


This is her other side, the side that she sits on the glass with. She's been on her same side for most of the year she's been un-floaty (<-new word). In this picture you can see the fuzz as the yellowish tan patch behind the plate. You can not see the second spot above the first. It's smaller but just as pronounced. The larger spot on this side is STILL ON THE GILLPLATE (sry4caps). This concerns me: it's already infected half of the whole gillplate on this side.


OK, these are the pictures I've got. I hope they help.

I forgot to mention that there's some kind of cloudy, clumpy, flowing sort of stuff where the fuzz is/ that's what the fuzz is. It's definitly 3d. Also, on the 4th pic, the one showing the side facing the glasss, those two dark dots are the same flowing dirt, only its dark. I think it's the same stuff that's on the gravel. I couldn't wipe it off.

She definitly is picking stuff up off the glass and it sticks to her.

Well from the pictures she looks pretty sick. What is ailing her???????????? But I would say you may need to think about quality of life issues. I know that is hard, but if she has been unable to live a somewhat normal life and is suffering, I am sure you love her enough to help her suffering to end.

I have to say, seeing the success stories that I have, and being so close to finishing my sling, I'm not willing to sacrifice how far I've gotten without finishing. I've put in enough personal effort and time that there's really no going back for me. One side of her has cleared up, and I believe it had to do with it's position away from the glass.

Thanks for your thoughts. At this point, I only have one more question: Is there somthing safe I can put in her water to calm her down while I am putting the sling on? I hate to come off as so stubborn, but as of yet it's the only thing keeping her from being "flushed".

I'm eager to put the sling on her, and I'm certain I can, but I was hoping to make the process as smooth as possible.

The sling will be done by the end of the week, and I hope to use it soon after.

btw I forgot, since her last water change she is much, much more active.

New news: She's eating.
She only eats about 1 pea each time and then I have to set her down for a few minuts. I did this twice. She really is active, and she moves around so much. Plus the sling has a change of pace. By late Thursday I'll be done for shure and on it will go.

The sling is done.
I can't get her in it. She keeps moving. I need somthing to calm her down or make her go to sleep, just long enough to get the sling fastened around her.
Clove oil? how safe is clove oil on fish. I want to be able to wake her up afterward.

Is anyone still here?...

Clove oil is never 100% safe - it depends on many things ie. how healthy your fish is, her size and how well she can cope with it etc..

I'm hesitant in letting anyone know how to sedate incase it causes mortality - and it can do if not administered properly or your fish just can't handle it.

There's only 1 time i've ever sedated my fish and that was when he had a rock lodged at the back of his throat - and I was unable to get it out. It was there for 2 days and he was suffering for it. So I sedated him for 1/2 an hour while I slowly and gently pulled it out and thankfully he did well.

What if she doesn't handle it well? What if there's complications? How will you feel about the person advising you on the steps to sedation? Are you prepared for the possible outcome? Sheesh, these sound like disclaimers but I have to ask

Well, she is pretty weak right now. And she might not be in good enough shape to withstand it. But I really don't know of any other way. Right now getting it on her seems pretty impossible, because each time i try and fail she panicks more. If there was another way to calm her down I'd do it in a heartbeat.
I would like to know the steps. Maybe if I knew what it involved, I'd have a better understanding and could make a more educated decision. I promise I won't jump into this withought a lot of thought, though.

Thanks for responding. I really appretiate the feedback I get from you people here at Koko's. You're the first site I've found so far that actually has complete information.

That's why I love this site also

When we sedated my moor, we placed 5 drops of clove oil into a gallon tub and then had 2 other tubs at the ready. I had a 1 gallon tub filled with a half dose of oil and one filled with his clean tank water. I needed to knock him out completely which is why I went with the 5 drops, plus he's a hardy fish of decent size. Then once he was sedated, I placed him in the fresh water for a minute then placed him in the tub with the 1/2 dose. I had the 1/2 dose tub at the ready as it took longer then I anticipated. This amount kept him at a level of sedation so that I could continue working on him.After 15 minutes, I removed the rock and placed him in the gallon tub with clean water until he came to.

I just don't know if your little girl could take it though - if she's stressed from the handling and is generally weak her heart may not be in it sadly. I think on a fish of her size, she would need a little less ie. 4 drops in a gallon tub (with a second tub of 2 drops - to keep her sedated). The only thing with 'pure' clove oil is it isn't easily dispersed in water so you have to try and mix it really well and a good way to do this is by putting the amount of drops you need in a really clean jar with tank water and shake it well. Then add it to the gallon tub and mix in well. This is when you would place your fish in it.

The most crucial part of this whole exercise is keeping a careful eye on your fish. She will turn onto her side but must still be breathing and this is when you want to remove her into the clean tub for a minute. Then to keep her sedated at this level you would need to place her in the 1/2 dose. The hardest part about all this (and I can't stress this enough) is there's a very fine line between sedating and euthanising which is why I wouldn't attempt it unless you have absolutely no choice. The gills must move throughout this procedure because the moment they stop - your fish is euthanised.

This is why i'm hoping you won't opt for this method. It's very risky and can have devastating results and I honestly don't think your little girl can handle it. She will be fairly stressed in a harness as it is and this may have a direct affect on her immunity causing her to sicken further.

I don't think I would ever do it again unless I had no choice - i found it stressful to say the least....

I can imagine how stressful that must've been.
We just tried to put the sling on her again, and almost suceded. The part I tried to take in was the part she fell out of again. But she was sitting in it for a good 30 seconds, and was completly relaxed: no redness at all, and not a single twitter. Until she twittered her way out of the front and fell onto the bottom.

Alas, I think I must refine my design, AGAIN, for the 5th time. She is such a small little fish, but I think our only chance is a design closer to that of Addy from the above links. Fortunately I don't think it will take long.

Thanks for your help so far, and wish me luck!

btw yes you are right, sedating would be a poor decision with her current condition.

Shoot... one more thing!

Would everyone agree that she has "Body Fungus"? I have tried many things, but I think the most specific thing we have for that is "AP PLUS Anti-fungus". It says it's for Mouth fungus, bacteria causing fin and tail rot, and cotton wool. Says it's made by "Aquarium Products". So, do you think it's saprolignia or columnaris, or somthing else completly?

Right, more info. the stuff is't striugy, so I'm going to call it cotton-ey and say it's body fungus. Can I use iodie or hydrogen peroxide? How would I do this?

And it's just on the tail? You can grab a cotton bud and pour some HP or iodine in a small thimble type lid and rest the bud in it. Then when you gently raise your fish to the surface, hold her in such a way that you can just dab the affected area. You only need to make sure that you don't get it anywhere near her mouth, gills or eyes.

I've had great success using hydrogen peroxide so know that it works. I've also tried betadine but didn't find it as effective.

If it's a powdery looking whiteness on the tail then it could be bacterial finrot and it sounds like the fungus meds you have may treat this.....

And I do wish you luck

PS. If the HP/iodine has no affect and you medicate with fungus meds, make sure you have no lights on as lights decrease its efficacy

No, it's a big patch covering most of one side and goes right to the gill and is on or in the gillplate. Is it not safe there? And can I jsut let the peroxide rinse off in her tank water like that?
btw I put in a 1/2 dose of the AP Anti-Fungus in her water already (active ingredients= Malachite Green, Arciflavine Hydrochloride), 5drops per gallon, 8 gallons. Oh, and she's moved on to fishfood crisps again, but only took about 2 moultfulls. And OK on the lights, they're off for the night and I'll leave it if you say it'll help

I wouldn't mess with the HP or iodine if it's too close to the gill plate. If you have the meds in now, these will have a better effect anyhow. Malachite green is absorbed readily by the skin which is why it's quite effective. The acriflavin helps with anything bacterial.

The acriflavin isn't affected by direct light just the malachite green. Light actually renders it ineffective which is why lights off is a must. Also, if you have any carbon in the filter, i would remove it for the duration of treatment as it will just absorb all the meds from the water (you probably already know this)

My fingers are crossed that it has a positive affect because I can't help but think there's something else going on with her that may be contributing to her problems. It seems her swim bladder has deflated and remains this way but I wonder what caused it? Perhaps we'll never know but at least you can help cure the fungus

How is the fish doing?

Its hard to say just yet. There was a *lot* of fungus on her before the treatment. I want to say that there is improvement, but honestly her condition dosen't seem good enough to put me at ease. I'm connsidering somthing mre drastic.

I tried feeding her at 5AM last night, to no luck. But she did react a lot to my flashlight, and even more to my picking her up. :) She's so cute.

Poor thing I used to have a little baby ribbon tail. I hope yours gets better soon

Its hard to say just yet. There was a *lot* of fungus on her before the treatment. I want to say that there is improvement, but honestly her condition dosen't seem good enough to put me at ease. I'm connsidering somthing mre drastic.

I tried feeding her at 5AM last night, to no luck. But she did react a lot to my flashlight, and even more to my picking her up. :) She's so cute.

btw the treatment directions on the bottle read as follows:
APPlus Anti-Fungus
Directions:
Shake well.
Before using, remove carbon from filter and continue filtration.
Use 10 drops per gallon (3.78liters) or one capful per 10gallons.
Treat once every 48 hours ((more like twice 48hrs apart:P)) for 2 treatments.
If symptoms persist after 48hrs ((does this mean after 1st dosage?)), perform a 25%waterchange and dose again ((2nd time?)).
Raplace carbon in filter 48 hours after final treatment ((48hrs after treating for 48hrs past the last dose, or 48hrs after I put the last dose in the water?))

I'm not really shure if I did this right... o man I hope I didn't botch that.

hi, i believe you replace carbon 48hrs after you put in last dose. And I am not too sure but i think you put in the 1st dose, wait 48 hrs and if symptoms persist do the 25% water change and put in the second dose and wait 48 hrs, then replace the carbon and do a water change.

Hope this helps, good luck with your fish.

karla

sorry, i just want to add that if the petstore still is open you can call up the fish department and ask. You can also call the place that makes the medication and ask but i think they are closed.

karla

So far, all the advice above has been excellent, EdK, and I feel sorry for the little guy - he looks really sad laying on the ground like that. (

By reading through your discription on how you have to pick him up and hold him every time you feed him, I wonder if you wash your hands before you do that? And if you wash them with soap, or just hot water? I can't help but thinking that all the handling really isn't great for the slime coat, and every time you hold her, slime coat is compromised. Not to mention that any potential soap residue on your hands will harm the fish.
I understand she has a hard time eating otherwise, but have you tried feeding her by dropping food just close to her while she is on the bottom? Can't she swim for it at all?

Thanks, and I might be wrong, but I think he's a she.

Yes, i wash with soap and medium hot water. I think you're right about handeling her and her slime coat, but she can't get the food any other way because she can barely wiggle along the floor, let alone swim. Although, as of recently, she's stopped keeping her food down once she gets it in her mouth. It's driving me CRAZY. :

If I had the sling, it *might* take her slime coat off completly, OR I could feed her without touching her slime coat at all and have no futher complications.



*Bigger Problem*:

I've followed the instructions on the bottle perfectly and she's still not any better. Should I just keep going? I don't know... I hate to just stop, but she's not eating at all either. How long could she possibly last like this?!

hi, i think you can start the treatment all over again but first wait at least 24 hrs before starting. Still i am unfamiliar with this antifungus med, hopefully someone who knows more can help.

I really hope your fish gets better, she is so adorable .

Also i have called these manufacturers before when i've been unsure about a product. Sometimes it is better to call the company than calling a petstore that may have inexperienced employees.
Aquarium services/bigalsonline.com have really good employees.


karla

ok, i keep doing this but i just want to add that i think i've read somewhere that if your fish is weak, she may not be able to handle the meds for too long perhaps due to a weakened immune system. Also several people here have used garlic to help stimulate their fish's appetite.

Sorry i cannot help too much, , someone who can help more may be able to advise you more.

karla

She's still not eating, though she'll keep dow tiny pieces of peas now. She's so thin. It's a natural instinct for all living animals to wat to eat. I don't understand... why can't I make her eat? She just keeps getting thinner and thinner and thiner. She won't last another week at this rate. I can't just stop now. I've done so much. I've done more for her than most people do for their dogs...
Sorry for the rant, I just needed to get that out.

I noticed that whjen I mixed garlic powded in her food she went for it a lot faster, and cept it a little longer, but she still can't swallow it. Right now she's eating tiny, tiny bits of peas. Thoughts?

I figured out how to get her to eat. I made the paste I feed her of crisps much much softer and liquidy. She's on a liquid diet now.

With any luck it will get more fluids into her too. If all of the food I put in the mixture gets eaten, than she's eating like a pig. Still, I have a long way to go until I have my fat little fishie again. Getting rid of the fungus is important too, but first things first.

Also, I wrote an email to the owner of the fish in the sling named Addy. She's being very nice and answering a lot of my questions. btw, JenW, in response to your comment about the sling idea removing her slime coat: Addy's owner claimes that Addy's slime coat has actually saturated the fabric of the sling, so that shoudn't be a problem. I find that a complete relief, because I was having doubts. Right now I'm at the stage of refining design and fattening my fishie like I said.

As of early Thursday her stats read as Nitrites=0, Nitrates=0, and everything else is moderate. Stats look really good, hope they stay that way.

When I had a fish that didn't eat, I mixed up some liquidy gel food using some garlic and holy cow - the difference that made was unbelievable

If you want to make up a food high in vitamins and nutrients for her, you could try whipping up a batch of gel food ie. spinach, beans, peas, squash, tinned tuna in spring water and garlic - then mix it all together in a blender and add some gelatin for it to set.... I also got some multivitamins from the vet to add to the mix....

I'll be honest with you, at this stage I can understand why you want to try everything you can and if i were in the same boat as you, there's no doubt i would look outside the square for a solution also. Now i'm hoping it works for you and I agree, building her strength first is the best place to start

Just a question on your water quality - I'm wondering why you're not showing any nitrates? If you have a cycled tank, especially one that isn't heavily planted then you should have some nitrates (being the total conversion of ammonia and nitrites). Can you try retesting?

Edk I hope your fish is doing better, I am amazed at the devotion you are showing! Good luck!

It's half past noon here, and I just tested again.
Ni 40
Na 0
Hardness 75
Alkilinity 0
pH6 .8

It's interesting what you said about Nitrates, JenW, and I agree. I think there were none before because I keep the tank pretty clean, and my filtration is maybe just really effective? Probably wishful thinking. There is definatly more dirt and food on the bottom of the tank then there was when I tested before. I've managed to kind of pen her in on the side of the tank with the filter because it's cleaner. Also, we have a new 4" airstone in the tank, postitoned right next to her.

I'm so happy she's made it this far. She is really thin. I'll try and make up some of that gel food JenW, it sounds like it might work. I'm worried that she isn't getting that much of the food I give her because it's so watery that it blows around a lot. Some blows out her gills, but I'm pretty shure she is getting at least half.

and thanks, FinnyFinedFriend. She is slowly getting better. Babysteps!

Nitrates aren't like ammonia and nitrites in that they should be 0 and they're not visible either. The way it works is once the ammonia has converted to nitrites, the total conversion of both = nitrates, which is why in a cycled tank, you should be able to see some. The only time nitrates are ever really low is if you have a heavily planted tank or if unlike me, you have no nitrates present in your source water and do regular waterchanges.

A healthy range for nitrates is <20 or at a push <40

Keep perservering with the feeding to keep her strength up. I wonder why she doesn't eat? I can't remember but have you tried any bacterial meds at all?

OK, well I must've misread last time I took a reading then. It's at probably 40 right now. I should do another change today.

Yes, we've tried bacterial medication, probably more than we should've: Maracyn and Maracyn2, plus APplus Anti-fungus just this last time, APpro Quick Cure, Maroxy. I think that's all. Not too shure... but that's what we've tried, all with no help. I'm not really shure if we'll ever get the fungus off, and if she has somthing internal, I doubt there's much I can do to help.

I am a but concerned with the gelfood, in that she won't hardly take the liquified mush off the tip of my finger anymore. I'm confused because she will for a while and then she won't, and then later she might. One thing is for shure, and that's that it probably isn't fast enough. I'll try and get the gelfood made by tonight.

All this leads me to believe there's some internal organ damage and maybe your good care continues to see her through.

To be honest, when I had to feed my fish with no appetite, I basically had to place her in a tub - gently enough that she hardly noticed the move. This was a long time ago and unfortunately she finally succumbed because I just don't think she got enough nutrients.

It is a hard task but if you're up for the perserverence - then she'll gain some necessary strength.

I'm hoping so

Im sorry to hear about you fish and i hope she gets better ..sorry I have no advice ..im new here too.

she pooped

I finished the gelfood, and, even though it was way too runny and a little frozen, she loved it way more than I thought she would. Unfortunatly, its so runny that it's hard to get to her mouth. I'm going to have to re-solidify it somehow. Still, THANKS SO MUCH!!! It's the most amazing thing ever. Oh, and I added one more ingredient than what you said: an orange. It should really help her immune system (hopeully).
Thanks again.

One other thing: her eyes are still getting bigger. popeye? I tink it is,. but the Maricyn was anything but effective last time, and I was dosing heavy. More thoughts?

(wow, this thread is getting huge...)

She pooped? That's great

As for the swelling eyes - hopefully it's not the start of dropsy. Something is causing her body to accumulate water. Usually if it's due to trauma, the difference is the swelling is in the blood vessels behind the eye and with perfect water, will reduce in a few days.

So it's hard to know why her eyes are swelling without a good understanding of what's going on inside her body.

Salting to 0.1% is often a good idea when swelling occurs and I would try this.

Just on the gel food, add more gelatin making the food very firm, it will liquify in the water anyhow so initially, the firmer the better

Salting, that's somthing I never figured out. How do I calculate %salt to water? Does 1tbs salt equal 1% for 10 gallons?

To keep it simple, it's 1 teaspoon of salt per gallon predissolved. Make sure the salt has no YPS or anticaking agents in it ie. table salt. The best is good old rock or sea salt, aquarium is good also but you're basically paying 10 x the amount because it's an aquarium product.

So for you - 10 teaspoons takes you to 0.1%. 1% is a big no, no unless you're planning on doing a 20 minute salt dip and 1% is 10 teaspoons per gallon in a separate tub