Hi! I live in New Delhi, India. I am planning to start a new tank (50 gallon or more) as I love Oranda goldfish and am obsessed with how graceful they look. I did maintain a 10 gallon aquarium upuntill last year. I did keep goldfish (tiny orandas and a few common ones) so I do know a thing or two about fish keeping.

My problem now is that I am really scared of the hassels that come with keeping goldfish. They all seem to inevitabely fall sick despite my best efforts. I never had any conrete info regarding the bare essentials SPECIFICALLY for a gold fish tank -

1. Filter(s)
2. gravel type
3. what variety of live plants to keep
4. essential medicines/ bacteria boosters/ and other chemicals
5. light any it colour (monochromatic or yellow light, etc)
6. Fish food ( I have heard Progold is the best along with home made food of course)

Could annyone (and everyone!) please tell me EXACTLY which brands and models of the above I should go for so that I get the best start possible in maintaining a great goldfish tank.

(PS. I know all the basic stuff like cycling, pH, water changing, goldfish diseases..etc. So please dont see this as a mammoth task while trying to answer my querry. Thanks!)

Well, asking for specific brands will get you as many answers as there are members to the board, but I will put in my for you to consider.

First I want to start off my saying

It is good to see someone wanting to start a new tank, but doing all the needed research beforehand. I see that you are in India. All the products I am going to mention are available in the US, but I am not sure about what you can get in New Delhi. You will have to shop around and do a little searching, but I think you will find exactly what you need. Now, on to you questions.

1. Filter(s)
This is a tough one. You will want 10X your tank size in filtration. If you are going to get a 50 gallon tank, then you will need at least 500 GPH (gallons per hour) filtration. Filters will say that they are recommended for a certain size tank, but those number are used for tropicals which are not nearly as messy as goldfish. I would say go for a canister filter if you can. You get the most bioload possible and a really good filtration rate. I am looking at the Ehiem Professional II for my tank. It is also good to have a HOB (hang on back) filter, too. This filter will do the majority of the mechanical filtration while holding a bit of the bacterial colony as well. I personally run an Emperor 400 which does 400 GPH on my 29 gallon tank. My tank is filtered just over 13.5 times an hour and the water parameters stay very nice. I have heard memebers recommend Aquaclear as well, but I have never used one myself. I like the Marineland family of products.

2. gravel type
Another good question! Common aquarium gravel is fine, use about one pound per gallon of water. Goldfish like to mill about in the gravel and scavenge, tho. Some members have had problems with gravel getting stuck in the fish's mouth and it choking. You also have the option of using larger gravel such as river rocks, but they are harder to clean when it comes to be gravel vacuuming time. Many members like the look of a barebottom or semi-barebottom tank. I am personally taking my 29 semi-barebottom and I think I am going to love it so much better. You can keep the water much healthier by remove wastes as you see them and it leaves less to decompose, contributing less to the nitrate levels. If you get your filters positioned right, you will almost never have to scoop out poo, they will do it for you.

3. what variety of live plants to keep
Can't help you here, I don't keep live plants in my tanks. However, if you go here you will be able to see a listing of good plants for goldies. They are vegan and will eat anything leafy that comes into the tank. Mine have tried to eat silk plants before.

4. essential medicines/ bacteria boosters/ and other chemicals
Meds: Maracyn, Maracyn-II, Melafix. These are good all around meds that are used for most disease situations.
Chemicals: You will need a good dechlorinator and Prime is recommended most often on this board. It will also help you out while you are cycling the tank, it will reduce ammonia toxicity. I use Jungle Start Right and Prime to make sure that all the heavy metals are taken out, I have copper pipes.

5. light any it colour (monochromatic or yellow light, etc)
Bak2it will be able to help you out with this one, he seems to be an expert at all the kinds of lighting. I use a ZooMed Tropic-Sun 24" 5500k Daylight fluorescent in my 29 gallon and I really like it.


6. Fish food ( I have heard Progold is the best along with home made food of course)
Variety is the key! Wouldn't you get bored eating the same thing every day?
Check out this page for a good listing of all the available options.

Well, now that I have writted a novel, I think I will cease for now and let all that sink in. If you have any more questions (and I know you will. We all have many more questions) ask away! That is what we are here for.

phew, I am glad that posted! I hit submit and it gave me an error. I would have been if I had done all that work and it didn't post.

Dear ma'am,

Tanks a million (thanks!!) for writing such a precise and well constructed note. I got just what I wanted. I really, really appreciate it that you took such a lot of time out to write in such great detail
I had asked quite a few people earlier and almost everyone beats about the bush when asked about SPECIFIC products!

Anyway.. I had another set of questions to ask (y am i not surprised!!) . (Actually, I am also drawing a few conclusions alongwith based on what you wrote. So please correct me if I falter anywhere)

1. Filters: I need - a) A canister filter (preferably - Ehiem Professional II)
b) A HOB filter (preferably - Emperor 400)

It is here that i must ask you as to what purpose does a "biowheels" filter serve. I have heard a lot about it and they say it is good for a goldfish tank.

I also have a spare 10 gallon tank which just has an undergravel filter (with two tubes sticking up from the plastic plates at the bottom). I want this one to be functional all the time so that it may serve as a quarentine tank for the fish in case of a disease and when I bring in new fish.
But I am almost certain that the quality of water in both has to be the same so that fish dont feel stressed when transfered from one to the other. Does this mean that I require both a canister and a HOB for this tank too?? Is there any other convenient way for maintaining similar quality of water??

2. Gravel: I guess I will keep my tank semi-barebottom (does it mean that there will be gravel but there will also be patches on the tank bottom that are free of any gravel?). Do I need to get a gravel vaccum also? If yes, please specify which one shall suffice.

3. Water testing Kit: I do have one called "Master Test Kit" by Nutrafin. It is a chemical one. Would an electronic one be more useful?? Please tell me which one shall be the best.

4. Cycling the tank: I read the article given on this site regarding cycling the tank. Do I really need to bring in another tropical fish during the cycling process. Please, if possible, give me the steps that you would take if you were cycling a new tank. Just mention the steps, dont need to explain any chemistry behind it, i have read it a thousand times!!

thanks a lot once again!!

oshi:
Please, call me Michelle. I am proud to hear that I have helped you out with your first series of questions. I will do my best to help you out with these, too. I amaze myself with the amount of info I have picked up from just my short time as a member here at Kokos, and I want to be able to share as much as I can. Keep in mind tho that any specific products I mention are because I have had experience with them, don't take my word as the supreme source, I am only trying to help. It does make me feel good, tho.

Enough about me, lets get started with you!

Do you know for sure what size tank you are going to be getting yet? That will help determine the best filtration combo to use. Canisters are a little expensive for a small tank of say 30 gallons or less (unless you get a great deal), but if you are going larger tank (55 or more) you will probably need one. If you are going 75 gallons or more, you might need two canisters.

BioWheels come in handy on filters, especially HOB style. They do not provide very much room at all for the biobugs to grow on, which is a shame because many HOB filters are really good. Larger HOBs will feature media baskets that you can use in additon to the normal filter cartridges to add to the space you have available for the good bacteria. That is one thing I love about the Emperor 400: you get two media baskets that you can use. BioWheels increase the surface area in/on the filter that the good bacteria can use for a colony. The bacteria settle on the wheels (which should never be cleaned, by the way) and help to remove the ammonia and nitrite from the water as the wheels spin. The bacteria get exposed to oxygen in the air and then to the water with all the bad stuff in it. It has been proven that this wet/dry cycle is a very effective means. I suggest you read this thread if you have not already. It will give you great info about filters and the proper way to take care of them.

For the ten gallon you want to use as a QT tank you will only need a properly sized HOB filter. I would leave out the UGF, too. They are more mess than they are worth. A basic setup for a QT tank is barebottom with a bubble wall and a HOB filter. The tank will have to remain cycled, so once you get it going you might want to get a fish to keep in there that will be easy to move around if you need the tank quick. I think Koko keeps a betta in hers so that it stays cycled. As long as your water is coming from the same source and you are doing all the same steps to it (dechlorinator, salt if used, etc...) then both tanks will theoretically be the same.

Semi-barebottom is best achieve when you leave the tank bottom bare and just add a handful of something like glass marbles that just spruces up the color. Check out this thread for some great info on barebottom/gravel comparisons. There are some really good pics on here somewhere of a semibarebottom like I am talking about, but I can't find them right off hand. Yes, you will need some sort of gravel vacuum or siphon hose. If you are going to get a big tank I recommend using a Python. I love mine, and I wonder why I waited so long to buy it. They can run pricey, but saving you from carrying all those buckets to me is worth it.

Liquid chemical test kits are the best IMO. Electronic testers would be perfect, but that is just too costly for my tastes right now. I like this kit myself. You get all the basic tests you need in one kit at a great price. The Nitrate test can be hard to read, but the ammonia test will not give false readings like some others will. I got the KH/GH test set by the same company and I also test for Phosphates.

The best way to cycle your tank is using a fishless cycle. Check out this link for some really good reading about it. That way you don't put a fish in danger and you don't run yourself crazy doing all those water changes.

Hope that helped you. If you need anything else, you know what to do.

Hi Michelle your Id seemed to suggest that you must be someone much older!! Then I checked out your profile.. Just 22!! Can I ask you y u go around here by the name of "Lady_Dodecagon".. Is that the name of some famous character from a novel? Just curious
Anyway..I'll first check out all the links you have included an the I'll respond back and tell you about the choices that i make. You can then evaluate my choices.

I had a talk with a great petstore owner over the phone and i mentioned the products and they are all available here too, except for the plants though but I'll look for them later.

As for my new tank, I believe I'll get a 50 or 55 gallon tank, so I guess a cannister is a indespensible.
As for the QT tank, I have decided to get a pair of some hardy and small variety of tropical fish. I have also decided to keep only two Orandas in the big tank at first as they'll be easier to manage and will have room to grow.

After I check out the links and hear what u hav to say bout my choices, I'll prepare a list and go shopping.. Lets see how this turns out. I'll certainly buy the fish once the tanks have cycled fully.
I want to chat with you here online but the live chat option does not seem to work for some reason... Anyway, Thanks a LOT for replying, I'll look forward to hearing from you once I post my list.

Thanks, Bye!

Michelle gave you some GREAT information. I just wanted to tuck in one small comment (besides, WELCOME! )

Some people, including myself, keep a "sterile" tank running for iso. Instead of using small tropical fish to keep the cycle going we use NO fish. Any fish life in a tank can potentially mean that there may be sickness/parasites in the tank. It is not a good idea to seed a tank or use a qt that may not be sterile. To do this, I add a small amount of clear ammonia to the tank everyday. When I feed my fish, I feed my sterile tank. This feeds the beneficial bacteria of the cycle, keeping the tank cycled and ready.

Everytime I need to run a qt tank or seed a new tank, I pull media from the sterile tank and can drop it into where it is needed - it can either create a full cycle instantly, or in the case of larger fish, within days. When I am done with a qt tub, I nuke the media and replace it in the sterile tank to reseed.

As Michelle mentioned, the undergravel filter is really not a good idea. Goldfish are so messy that most UGF are not up to the job of processing their waste and you can get quite a toxic mess under there in no time flat. An UGF is also a haven for parasites and bacteria - real nasties that can lay in wait for a fish to become stressed or weak for one reason or another. And then they attack. This is the reason that a qt tank is run barebottomed. It is easy to sterlize after use, when you do treat, you know the treatment is reaching every corner of the tank - there is no place for a parasite to hide either in a dormant state or as larvae. It is easier to manage, and, since most medications are done in increments of 10 gallon doses, you will be doseing more precisely. The gravel takes up water volume that is calculated in medication doses.

AGain, welcome. Please feel free to ask away - we are all fish lovers here and enjoy talking fish.

Hi Daryl !

Thanks for being so warm! I was looking around the threads mentioned my Michelle and others of significance on the board. You always seem to give some really good and practical advice!!

Thanks for the tit-bits on the QT tank! I'll see to it that I follow all that you have written. I really welcome any other suggestions form your side.

You see, I am starting a new goldfish tank and from my past experience I know that getting a good start can really make the future job of maintaining the tank very easy, especially if fancy goldfish are involved. So I would really value other inputs from you!

Thanks once again!!

Thanks for the additonal tips Daryl! I hadn't thought about a fishless QT tank in much detail, I just keep stuff around that I can set up a full system in a pinch if I need to. That is what we are all here for, to help each other out.

oshi, My username is pronounced Lay-dee Dough-deck-aah-gon. In geometry I learned that a dodecagon is a 12-sided figure, and since I have so many moods and feelins I decided to adopt it. The 'Lady" part is obvious since I am a female. I used to use a different pronunciation for the dodecagon, but that has connections with an ex-boyfriend and I would rather not get into that.

Only keeping two orandas in a tank that size will help keep your water at a very high quality. I would stock fancy goldfish using the 10 gallons per fish rule and you are going to be falling way below that limit (5 fancies for a 55 gallon) which will make taking care of the tank very easy on your part.

The live chat works, but no one is ever in there. We organized something once and got quite a few peeps involved, but because everyone is spread out so far and in so many different time zones it is hard to get a large chat group.

I can't wait to hear about what you decide. Good luck and I will be watching this thread.

Just my

Personally after all the years of raising goldfish, I have found that bare bottom tanks are the best for them.

1. goldfish love to pick up things and can get rocks stuck in there mouth.
2. Much easier to clean the tank and less poop mess in there.....
3. you get more water in the tank. Remember everything you add to the tank it takes away the volume of the tank....so if you have a 30 gal tank and add a pound or 2 of rocks then your having a 29 gal tank and so on....

Filter for a tank larger than a 40gal I highly suggest 3 filters on it..Reasons:

1. helps to keep the tank cleaner longer.
2. if one filter gets clogged then you can clean it and the others are supporting the tank with no worries.
3. Better filtration for a larger tank....

With a tank of 50 I would differently go with a canister and 2 hang on filters....

Or the easier way is a Wet/Dry filter and 2 hang ons.

Hi there!

I am so lucky.. Koko's posted a reply on this thread!! Anyway.. Thanks a lot Koko, I'll definately go with the barebottom tank. The only reason I wanted to go semi-barebottom is because I also want the tank to look good.

By the way, regarding the filters for my 50-55 gallon tank I am about to get, Michelle (Lady_Dodecagon) suggested :

a) A canister filter (preferably - Ehiem Professional II)
b) A HOB filter (preferably - Emperor 400)

According to you, I should have another HOB, right? Then should I buy two same ones or should I go for different brands of HOB (if that can provide some extra benefits).

Hey, I checked out the prices of the filters.. the canisters seem to run pretty pricey here as they are exported from either China or from the US and as you might be knowing, 1 US dollar = 46 Indian rupees (approximately) Even if I order online from the company in the US, the shipping charges will more than make up for the lesser price! Anyway, as koko said about one wet n dry filter and two HOBs.. would that be a cheaper option?

(PS. I am more than ready to shell out the bucks for a Canister, just that I would be glad if a cheaper option was available!! )

I have not bought anything as of yet. Before I buy anything, I shall prepare a whole list of the products and post it here first, for you all to scrutinise Then I'll make my move to the shopping part!! I would request all three of you (KOKO, MICHELLE and DARYL) to watch my thread in a few days for the same

I will be more than happy to watch - a shopping trip, vicarious or not, is still fun!

You are looking to filter at least 10 times the water volume every hour - so a 50 gallon tank would need at least 500 gallons turnover every hour. I prefer closer to 12-15 times an hour - the higher number for large fish, heavy feeders, or a fully stocked tank.

How you get to that gph is really up to you. Most have found that cannisters, although GREAT in biological filtration (they really cannot be beat!) are not the best at mechanical filtration. That is why many people choose to have a combination of cannister and HOB filters. Having multiple intakes in the tank will also help clean it better - for the waste is sucked from multiple points in the tank.

I do not think you would need two Emperor 400s AND a cannister. You could certainly do the 2 Emperors for a 55 and have extreme filtration (more than you need) or you could do a 400 and a 280 and be fine.

The Emperor 400 is a great filter. The Emperor 280 is an equally fine filter. I have more 400s than any other type filter, with the 280s coming a close second. They are true workhorses. But if you can find something that does the trick for you, cheaper, that will work, too. I have seen Emperors for sale in China (on the street vendor tables and such) for extremely cheap prices compared to here. But that is China - in odd places and you probably know you can find just about anything in China ifyou look hard enough. I am also sure that it is the shipping, as you have said, that is the killer.

The Eheim cannisters cannot be beat in my mind for ease of cleaning and slick design. They are VERY pricey, though. Some have found other cannisters that are a "copy" of the Eheim - they may have thinner walls on the box, or not have an auto shutoff, but the filtration is just as good and the price is a whole lot better. Once again - you should look around and compare.

If you see something locally available, you can always ask here. We have a mod, Toothless, who is really the BEST at all things mechanical, and a few members who are amazing as well. I am sure they will be more than capable to help in analayzing anything you find.

Shopping and planning are such fun. Enjoy!

Hi and
You have got great advice here so I am not going to add to it all and confuse.
But..here is a tip to make the bottom of the tank look like it has gravel
Most tanks will be sitting on a foam underlay, you could paint the foam and dot it so it looks like sand, or even put a fine layer of sand on it so thru the glass it acts like a tank background, but it is on the bottom! You could even use a picture. Get creative
Then you can go bare bottom and still have a nice look to it

YOu will not see the bottom if you are viewing at an angle, though. The reflection will be of glass, but if you look down from above, you will see it.

Anything is better than seeing your stand or an open floor through a tank bottome, though!

I do like to place a patterned base under it anyway to prevent this. I use foam board (it helps level the tank if needed) wrapped with a fabric. I have fabric that looks like river stones.

Thats a great idea 'luvmuhfred"!!

I am a very creative person..Now that u have given me such a great idea, I'll work on it.. lets see wat comes out! I'll keep u posted! Please do keep track of this thread.. I really need good inputs from u all!
Thanks!

That sound good.. I'll try searchin for such a fabric or paper sheet..!

By the way daryl, I heard of this great place called "Chor Bazaar" in Delhi, Meaning "Thief market"!!! It has Chineese goods in great profusion.. lemme see if I can get the Filter ther.. but the quality of all chinese goods (esp. export items) Is very poor.. So i guess I'll go with the real Canister after all! But I will search first..!

I will be very happy to look over your selections and offer advise. I have my 29 gallon tank sitting on a light blue towel and when you look strait down into the tank it looks pale blue, but at an angle you can see a mirrored look. I think it is very pretty.

I am also glad to see that you are doing lots of research for your tank before getting it! I have only one thing to add, which someone else may have already and I missed it, or it may be something you already know, just to make sure not to overstock your tank-easy to do when you are starting a new one!

General rule: 10 gallon per fancy (double-tailed gf) and 20 gallons each per single-tailed goldie. You probably already know that, but I just had to throw it out there since so many pet stores are misinformed on the stocking subject and tell people they can keep 12 gf in a 20 gallon tank!

So are you going to go with all orandas? Once you have everything up and running I would LOVE to see pictures! I am moving my overcrowded 20 gallon tank into a 55 so I am excited to have a big tank set up as well. Good luck and keep us posted!

Hi Jen! Thanks for posting!

Well, yeah, I already knew that rule! But thanks for being thoughtful to tell me that!
Well, I am a huge fan of orandas and can't seem to get over them!
(This crush is the longest one i have had.. 2 years and still going strong! )

You see, I used to run a 10 gallon tank before and had overstocked it with 3 big orandas (a clear violation of the GOLDEN rule!). Anyway, I shut that one down due to my exams.. Now I plan to get a bigger tank (45 - 55) gallon and keep just two Orandas in it.

The problem however is that I have been unable to get any of the good filters here in India that the other members have suggested. I have been searching like crazy for Emperor or Penguin or their chinese prototypes but have been unable to get anything good.

Finally! Last night I found the emperor one on Ebay.uk. That was the only Ebay site willing to ship to India. the Indian site for Ebay didnt have that product..
So i guess I shalll finally be able to start a new, healthy tank afterall.

I had promised all the other members on this thread that I'll soon be posting a list of all the products I will buy and let them scrutinise it first! I'll do that in some days now.

Thanks once again! cya, Bye!

That is wonderful about the filter! Congratualtions!

I am eager to see how your aquarium grows - it sounds like a great project.

Congrats on finding the filter! It's always really exciting to find a great deal on fish stuff in the oddest of places.

Thanks Michelle and daryl!

I got a good deal . The filter's (Emperor 400, Marineland) for $44 (approx) and the overall cost including shipping is $107 which might sound big but its the best offer I could get!

I also found a really good Chinese Power filter which has a very large capacity for storing nitrifying Bacteria besides excellent mechinical filteration and just satisfactory chemical filteration (which the emperor filter shall take care of)
. I have bought two of these Chinese ones, one for my main tank and the other for the 10 gallon quarentine tank.

I still have a lot of things to buy! But I am taking my time, so that all goes well! Thanks for being so supportive and encouraging! I'll keep posting as and when I plan to buy different things.

Bye!

Glad to hear that everything is coming along smoothly. Can't wait for the next update.

Hi! Dear Daryl and Michelle..

I just stumbled upon this great aquarium shop in Delhi. I checked out the filters that they are offering. They have a great range of canister filters only (including EHEIM). I also found a range of canisters called Fluval. These seem pretty good too. I am getting a great bargain for this filter (Fluval 104, 204, 304 and 404)

How would you compare this filter to the Emperor 400? Which one's better? I was just on the verge of ordering the Emperor when i found this filter.. Please comment Now I am sort of confused...

Hey by the way, I have found a page having a review of these filters.. You can check it out if you need to know more about these Fulvalk canisters here

I can't help you out much there, I only have the Eheim Pro II. I do know that I really like the ease of use of the Eheim and the fact that with the flip of one switch both the intake and output lines are closed so that there is no water leaks while you service the canister. Let us know what you decide!

Hi!

I was just about to order an Emperor 400 from Ebay when I stumbled upon this store which is offering a series of canisters - Fluvals -104 to 404 (although 204 is the most I can afford as of now) for attractive prices.

Now I am really confused as i can only buy one - either the emperor or the Fluval. I want to buy the Fluval cause it is a canister but the Emperor is an overall great filter which I believe all rate as the best H.O.T. Which one do I buy??

(Besides one of these - Emperor or Fluval, I shall also place a good internal power filter in the tank which shall add to all three types of filterations - Mech / Biological / Chemical).

hiya! Fluval filters are very popular in the UK rather than the USA. Hagen/Fluval are regarded as a high quality brand and lots of people in the UK use their products.

I do not know anything about Emperor filters, however. but I would say that so long as you get enough filtration (10x your tank capacity litres/gallons per hour) you should be ok with the fluvals, especially since you are planning on getting another to help the filtration.

I am not sure that the Emperor is worth the extra cost. But then again, i am no expert, and if the emperor is really so much better than the fluval, i'm sure someone will be along soon to tell you so!

Hey there!

Please do post a few more responses as I have very little time to decide between which filter to choose.... :