He was beginning to improve when I was using the Vibramycin and Epsom salt, he was staying upright. Then I salted the tank and now he is back to headstanding and occassionally lying on his back, so I stopped and went back to the Epsom and medicine. I'm hoping this food will make more difference.

Hey Jen,

I think one of the white lumps on my celestial's eye has disappeared! Do they grow into their eyes or will the eyes always be that large? (proportionately) Also, I was just wondering with Pierre's medicated food - how long do you think it would be before I would see any signs of improvement? A few weeks? Months?

What do you mean the white lump has disappeared? Their eyes will always seem big for their bodies although when younger, they are proportionately bigger. My little one looks as though he's all eyes and hardly any head

As for improvement when using meds - it can take a few days to see some real improvement but if they're working, little by little you should see small improvements in their demeanour within 24+ hours. It can be a small things such as his fins aren't so clamped, he's not resting on the substrate all hours of the day or he's starting to swim a little more.

What are all of his symptoms as of today?

- stringy white poop?
- clamped fins?
- continuous resting on the bottom?
- any heaving breathing?
- any red markings on his body?

How much medication did you use in proportion to the amount of food you made? (just a rough idea)

Remember I told you there were two tiny white lumps that looked similar to breeding stars on the eye of one of my celestials? Well.. one has gone. He kept scratching that part of his eye the other day... my celestials are all eyes and no head too hehe

Pierre has been pooping fine the whole time and has never sat with fins clamped. He headstands and rests on the bottom most of the day, and when he swims its not graceful and smooth movements of the tail, its more twitchy and he doesn't really get anywhere. No heavy breathing and no red spots, and still had a good typically goldfish appetite.

There is about 150mg (perhaps a little less) to about 0.75 litres of food.. haven't seen any change in condition so far.

Sorry forgot to add.. I've been watching and he does seem a little more active... he's floating around the tank a little more (not really swimming, just floating around with his head pointed down.. but its more active than usual)

I thought that was the white spot you were talking about - and that's good. One down, one to go I looked at my celestial and have noticed the white spot is fading - it's still there but fading.

If you've dosed at 150mg/0.75ltr of food then that's a fairly weak dose. It's part of the tetracycline family and to give you an idea, one tetracycline tablet contains 375mg Tetracycline Hydrochloride and when I made medicated food, I dosed at 1 tablet/350ml (375/0.35ltr). As it's a tablet for humans, I just don't know what the correct dosage would be. There is something else you can try, if you have pellets - you can soak them in some of the medication until they're soft. They will soak up the meds but your fish would need to eat it straight away or the meds will dilute in the tank. Worth a try?

If he's swimming around a bit more then that's a big plus - so some success there

I might try the soaked pellets idea, but he has trouble getting a direct hit with food because of his manouvering problem.

I was so unsure with these human tablets that I thought it was better to be safe than sorry with the dosing, will it work over time perhaps or is it simply too weak? Should I continue adding it to the water if I'm feeding it to him as well?

There is one of two things you can do

First - remove all the guesswork and concern over dosages and possible outcomes - and that's to try and grab a bottle of Tetracycline tablets from the petstore (Petbarn would be best). This would remove any doubt you or I may have. I've got my bottle here and it cost me $11.25 - so it's not too pricey

Or second - if you're strapped at the moment, let me know and I can pm you for your address details and I'll send you half of mine (about 8-10 tablets I think). This will be enough to get you through a decent dose even with loads waterchanges. Dosage is 1 tablet per 20 litres of water. Let me know, I'd be happy to do this and I can easily replace them next time I go to Petbarn (which is almost weekly)

Oh Jen, that is so kind! Thank you for the offer.. it is not that I'm strapped for cash at the moment, it is mainly that I cannot get out there because it's a bit of a distance (if I am thinking of the right Petbarn) and I can't go most days because of school. Is there any way I could send you the money in exchange for the tablets?

Don't be silly If you email me at jenlawrence@optusnet.com.au with your address, I'll put them in the post today

Jen, you are too kind!

Pierre is definately a lot more active! Still floaty but he's swimming around and searching for food, before he just ate, and sat and did nothing else.

That is such a plus

Keep feeding him your food as it seems to be helping. I would continue feeding for 2 weeks and I'll send you the TC tablets Monday. Keep them on hand if anything goes wrong but i'm hoping by the time they get to you, you won't need them (then you can just keep them in your fish medicine cabinet

Hey Jen,

Just an update and a few questions - Pierre is definately a lot more active with the medication, he seems better if I feed it to him twice a day. His scales are still protruding a little, more on one side than the other - will this medication (the food or the tetracycline) get Pierre back to normal or will he always have problems with his swim bladder?

Also, I lowered the salt levels in the main tank, bleached the plants and put them back in because they were all disintegrating and I didn't want to lose them all.. the fish seem fine, no more flashing and they all look a lot happier with plants to explore. They don't eat any of my plants (not even the anacharis which I bought specifically for that!) but they are only small... 2 inches maybe.. it is likely they will eat them when they are older? Also, since plants take up space is it possible to have too many in a tank? Or do the benefits outweigh the reduction of space? (I bought some banana lilies at the mall today, if you are interested, they are so cute!) Also.. do you know if seachem's Flourish is high in iron? My lugwigia is looking a little green and I only have this no brand plant fertiliser.

Unfortunately in Australia, any med we use can be hit and miss but it's worth a try. The raised scales would have more to do with the infection than his swim bladder and unfortunately there are some fish that will always suffer from swim bladder disorders. So I will get the tc tablets out to you tomorrow and my suggestion would be to make some more food (small amount) using one dissolved tablet:200ml blended food. What you are feeding may be holding any progression of the problem at bay so trying the tetracycline may do the trick.

As for your plants, some people have heavily planted tanks which is great during the day although at night, they do reduce the c02 in the water considerably. I have roughly 7 plants per tank and have no problem

With the bleach, did you just dip them in the bleach solution? You didn't soak them for long did you? If so, they will most likely continue to disintegrate in the tank unfortunately.

Flourish is an excellent fertisizer as it contains calcium, magnesium and iron (plus other essential trace elements) and my plants have started to grow well I only dose at half rate though (I don't know why) but even though it's touted as safe for fish, I'm more comfortable with only half

Thank you again for sending those tablets!

My tank has heaps of plants.. Manly aquarium sells bunches of Val with about 13 plants for only $7 and I went a little crazy hehe.. I guess mine is pretty heavily planted.. but I have all that aeration and the plants sucking up the Nitrate can only be a good thing since I am overstocked... also, I have two 24" 20w bulbs on a 3ft tank.. is this low light or moderate light?

I made a 1:40 bleach solution and soaked for two minutes with roots out of the water (except where it was unavoidable like wisteria) they seem to be doing fine for the moment... I will have to get my hands on some flourish. I have tabs but no good quality liquid.

2 x 20W is good. I have a Dalbarb double flourescent and each globe is 40W but I had to introduce uv steralizers on my tanks to reduce the increase of algae so my plants are flourishing while the algae is being kept at bay.

A dip in the bleach shouldn't do much damage. The first time I bleached my plants, I stupidly left them in the tub overnight - the next day they were shredded

I'm all for lots of plants but the ones I get are around $17-20 a pop and with 5 tanks to plant - that's freakishly expensive. Thankfully my fish don't eat these plants as they're mostly java fern, anubias and amazon swords but I try hard to keep them alive for as long as I can.

It sounds like you have a nicely planted tank so my question is, when do we get to see some pics?

I have a dalbarb double too.. 5 tanks is a lot, but Manly is quite cheap. I bought half of my plants from the mall, big mistake, what with the ich and the tiny bunches, and then I went to Manly straight afterwards and was kicking myself. If your fish don't each wisteria you could get a big bunch of that and plant cuttings - mine grows like crazy and I don't do a thing.. I'll try to get some photos now, I just have to remember my photobucket name and password hehe..

Ok... here is a full view of the tank.. some of the plants in the right corner are still growing in.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h65/Just...in/fulltank.jpg

Here are three of my fish, they never stay still! From top to bottom, Norman the ranchu, Hamlet the pearlscale and Rembrant the bubble eye.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h65/Just...lJoin/three.jpg

And this is just to show Pierre before his swimbladder problems.. he was the top fish back then and he'd steal everyones food. (Calico crowned pearlscale)

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h65/Just...Join/pierre.jpg

Sorry that some of those are washed out, I can't take great pictures of the tanks, but you get the idea. Enjoy!

Wow, your fish and tank looks fantastic

When you say you purchased plants from the Mall, was it from the petstore outside across from Bunnings? I do love them for supplies (ie. rocks etc) but won't ever get plants from there again. It's a shame really because the girls there really look after their customers. The last time I puchased a potted plant from there, my whole tank broke out in ich the following day. I don't mind paying more for plants at HiTek because I've never once had a problem with them and that's over a long period of time. I do give them a quick dip first but no problems.

You should get some shots of your tank - not the one you posted - and send them to Koko for tank of the month. It's a lovely tank.

PS. I will go and check out Manly Aquariums this week - it'd be interesting to see what they have

Fins, Wings n Things? That's where I got my banana lilies from today. I haven't had a problem with their plants, most are kept in separate tanks. There's also that petstore up near Big W, no problems there because they have separate tanks there too. The ich infested plants I bought were from the petstore near OPSM.. I think that's it, the shop that sells glasses. The plant was in a separate tank but the tanks change all the time there and I doubt they go to the trouble of disinfecting every time, whereas the other stores seem to keep the same tanks as plant tanks all the time. What a shame about the ich outbreak, it's the worst thing in the world... well maybe not the worst but pretty horrible.

I'm told by the Manly staff that the val is the best they've seen in years hehe.. get some wisteria! Get it!

I'll have to work at these photos and see if I can turn up anything worthy of submitting.

I must be off.. goodnight!

F W n T is where I got my plants that caused the ich. I stupidly purchased them out of the tank with fish in it - won't make that mistake again. They are one of my favourite petstores though

How is Pierre doing today? I'm going to head off to Manly Aquarium soon to check out these great plants so will post back later

Hey, nice signature - your fish are beautiful! I made the food for Pierre yesterday but it didn't have enough gelatine and ended up like a frothy souflee... don't know how you spell it.. anyway, I just added more gelatine and it is re-setting now (is it ok to do that with gel food, mel it down and then add more?)

I was doing a water change on my main tank yesterday, and when I looked away to reposition the bucket one of my bubble eyes got his bubble sucked into the tube! I stopped the flow as soon as I felt something block and is bubble has not deflated, but it has gone orange and there is blood around the lower portion of the bubble, and some skin, or slim coat, I'm not sure, that is hanging off his gill plate (not torn off really, there's no scratching or blood there) he is acting completely normal and eating fine.. as soon as he got free he just started searching for food again.. so apart from keeping the water clean is there anything else I can do or should this just heal by itself?

I am a disaster when it comes to these poor fish!

What did you think of the plants?

Hi Jen,

Pierre is a lot more active after just one day on that food! He goes crazy when I come in and is swimming about a lot now... when he backs up he tends to go into a headstand, but he can control his buoyancy apart from that and I think his manouvering is getting better too!

That's great news about Pierre - not so great about your bubble-eye. If the water is perfect, then that's all you need to do and he should fare well.

I don't think it's a problem to add more gelatin after it has set - i've had to do this myself.

I would feed Pierre this food for 21 days in total just to make sure the bacterial infection is gone. I once made the mistake of stopping too early and my fish became ill again a week later. So now, if there's a problem, i'll run a full course just to make sure

PS. Thanks for your comment on my siggy. It's a pity I could only get 8 in there. If I put all my guys in, Koko would give me a smack for making it too big

My bubble-eye is acting normally... the blood seems to be disappearing and from what I can see there is a small red lump inside the sack, it looks as though something is healing in there. You take such good photos of your fish! How many do you have?

In total I have exactly 20

And that's good news about your bubble-eye - it sounds like all is now going well.

Thanks for the compliment. I will sit in front of my computer and think "I know, I'll take some more pics of my fish" and the poor things have to freak out and the flash once again. I have a big album now but am only happy with a handful of their pics

20! You must have a lot of tanks.. or one absolutely massive one! Your flash looks very professional, mine makes everything a little yellow and my fish look like demons because their pupils are reflected the wrong way hehe