Hi ~ I have received so much valuable help and info here from very kind and knowledgeable folks. Thank you. I have read the archives and used that info but my treatment for the following doesn't seem effective.

I have had five fancy goldfish in an approx. eight gallon pool with a waterfall in our dining room for over a year. Yes, I now know it is overcrowded and I will be getting a 75 gallon aquarium with two Marineland Emperor 400s when we move into our new home next month.

The GF have been healthy and have grown tremendously in the year I have had them. The Black Moor is 7" including tail - two Calico Fantails are 7" & 8" long and two Fantails that turned out to be Orandas are 8 1/2" long. Surprisingly, I don't believe any are stunted though the wen on the Orandas took about eight months to develop and the wens are still growing.

Thanks to the great information here I now have a test kit and use it. I have been doing approx. 50% - 75% water changes about once a week.

I first saw the white on the Black Moor's dorsal fin about a month ago. The Orange Oranda has had the White Spot on the body for several months. I have been treating the tank for the past nine days. I took the carbon filter out and have been adding 5 ml of Melafix for the past 9 days (one more day to go), 10 ml of Stresscoat when I change the water about 75% every other day or so and 10 tsp. of Aquarium Salt with water change. I have seen no improvement with either fish since treating them.

I use our well water and here are the specifics as asked for above:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 0 - 20
Nitrite: 0 - 0.5
pH: 7.2
ppm Total Harness: 120
ppm Total Alkalinity: 120

Approx. 8 Gallon pool with fountain for over a year with the same fish in it.
Aqua-Tech 5 - 15 Power Filter
Now changing approx. 75% of water every other day since treatment without carbon filter. Other times approx. 50% - 75% almost weekly with carbon filter in.
Five Fancy Goldfish 7" - 8 1/2"
5 ml of Melafix, 10 ml of Sress Coat, 10 tsp. of Aquarium Salt for 9 days of treatment without the carbon filter. Will treat water one more day. No improvement in fish.
No new fish.
Food: TetraFin Goldfish Crisps and TetraFin Goldfish Flakes soaked over one minute and fed once daily.
Whiteish color and one seperation on Dorsal Fin of Black Moor and White Spot on Body of Gold Oranda.
No unusual behavior. Fish swin and play on top and bottom of pool and appear healthy and happy. They love to let the current from the waterfall and the outflow of the filter carry them. All fish sleep together on the bottom and seem to care for one another.

I just signed up with photobucket.com to show you all the problem areas on the GF. Here are the urls:

Orange Oranda with White Spot on Body:
http://photobucket.com/albums/j195/DocWill...nt=P1010113.jpg

Black Moor With White on Dorsal Fin:
http://photobucket.com/albums/j195/DocWill...nt=P1010115.jpg

Thank you all for any help.

Hi Doc glad to see you still around!!

Unfortunetly your pictures are pretty blurry. Any chance you can redo them? That would be very helpful.

As we have talked about before (and you are very aware of) the small water they live in may be taking a toll on them.
You are doing about all you can, and to be honest the only thing else to do is to upgrade now or seperate them to get this under control.

With the white spot I am not sure what it is, could be color change but it could also be a bacterial infection.
The moor, most likely bacterial or a parasite. (hard to tell with the picture).

The only thing I would do different is to get them in a bigger tank. Maybe put them on a medicated food for 2 weeks.
I would continue the salt. But I am not a fan of Melafix, it has its place but with the tank being so small...........you are battleing an up hill battle. That you may be getting ready to lose if you don't take action soon.
I know you are working on this but to be honest once problems start occuring it is a downhill momentum.

Hi Laurie ~ Thank you for your quick reply. I do come here to read and learn but haven't posted in a month or so. I knew the photos weren't that clear. Maybe this one is better of both of them:

http://photobucket.com/albums/j195/DocWill...kMoorOranda.jpg

For the past month I have been talking with my wife about getting the aquarium before we move. You just posted an excellent argument about getting one now and I will have her read it. I will order the Emperors, air pump, bubble wand for back wall, silk plants, Aquarium Systems coral from Big Al's this week. I will buy the 75 Gal. aquarium and river rock locally and then cycle the tank. Anything else I should get?

Should I continue treatment or find a diagnois? The fish are not yawning or trying to scratch their bodies. They are always eager to eat and are active.

A little better, but still blurry. Maybe if you back up a bit in when taking them?

Well I hope I can help prove your case. (i do know how difficult it is to move a large tank and I wouldn't want to do it if I had a choice, but you may have a few less fish to move if not).

From this last pic, it almost looks like the orange fish is missing scales, is this the case?

I wouldn't worry about a diagnosis until you get the water under control. Because unfortunetly that is the first step in diagnosing. Ruleing things out...........and since water is the single most important thing that is priority one.

Water conditioner is a good thing to have on hand. I didn't see if on your list, but know you use stresscoat alot right? I don't recommend stresscoat for a regular conditioner. It contains aloe, that is good, but it can "gunk" up the gills and cause problems if used to much.
I like Prime, it is the best of conditioners out there in my opinion. (I know others agree). Alittle more expensive you think until you use it then you find it is more concentrated and a better deal. Not to mention it takes care of more metals in the water than most.

I need to get ready for a gig tonight so I have to hurry. Yes, Prime is what I will use. I had brought Prime to the counter at the fish store and the guy told me Stress Coat is sooooo much better. I learned about Prime here and should have got it. I will next time. I learned so much here and will post more later.

Geez Laurie, sometimes I'm not very bright. I did stand further away and took the telephoto zoom off so here are (hopefully) some better photos. Yes, the orange fish is missing scales at white spot.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j195/Doc...WhiteSpotII.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j195/Doc...oorOrandaII.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j195/Doc.../AlltheFish.jpg

I don't know why but two photos show up as BIG and blurry but one of all the fish is properly sized and in pretty good focus. Thanks for your help.

Boy nice looking fish.

Ok, for the oranda with the white spot. I am not sure but it could be a bacterial infection. How many scales are missing and any idea how that happened?

As for the moor, black fish so don't photograph well. So I can't see the white spots you are refereing to. Where are they again?

Are these 2 fish acting ok? Any problems with either one?

I did notice some heavy red streaks in another fish in pic 2 I believe. Is this normal for that fish?

i noticed some white spots on the head and the eye but it might not be that :S