Test Results for the Following:
Ammonia Level? 0ppm
Nitrite Level? 0ppm
Nitrate level? 0ppm
Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines )? ph level- 7.4
Ph Level out of the Tap? um 7.6???
Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? 37 gallon, 8mnths
What is the name and size of the filter/s? BIOWHEEL, its an eclipse, so the filter is in the hood

How often do you change the water and how much? every 3-4 weeks, 25%
How many fish in the tank and their size? the sick one is a RED/BLACK oranda,
other tank mates:
lemondrop oranda- 3inches
huge red/white oranda- 5 inches
small red/white oranda- 3 inches
ryukin calico- 4 inches
small ryukin calicos: 2inches and 3 inches
What kind of water additives or conditioners? freshwater essential on a weekly basis
Any medications added to the tank?
Add any new fish to the tank? um 2 weeks ago
What do you feed your fish? frozen bloodworms, frozen brineshrimp, freezedried boodworms, hikari goldfish pellets, some other japanese pellet (ALL COLOR FREE), anachuris, peas, orange, lettuce
Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt", not that i know of
bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? fins look shrunken, one eye lkooks cloudy (but not popeye!)and i know he dosent have dropsy...he has some sort of CYST under his jaw, lost a lot of weight....
Any unusual behavior like staying
at the bottom, not eating, ect..? eats then spits food out within 5 minutes! hes been doing this for maybe a week now? i only found out about it today, stays at top, lost that "oranda belly fat"

PLEASE HELP! TTHIS IS URGENT, THE FISH HAS SEEMED TO DETERIORATE EVEN JUST FROM YESTERDAY TO TODAY!
thanks in advance

Hi and welcome. Sorry to hear that you have an ill fish.

Right away I notice that you are way overstocked and the tank isn't cycled yet. These are 2 very big problems.
So we have to start with that first.
Were you aware of being overstocked and are you working on resolving this problem? If not, gf require 10 gals of water each per fancy gf. This is because they produce lots of waste that contaminates the water making them sick.
Onto the problem with the tank cycling. Being overstocked you are going to have problems with that cycle. I am wondering why this tank has not cycled since it has been up for months, with that load of fish in it. NOt to mention only changing water every 3-4 weeks.
Are you changing the filter cartridge on a regular basis?

Onto the sick oranda. Spitting food can be a symptom of parasites. So for this I would recommend first getting the above taking care of then add salt to the tank. Salt is a killer of most parasites and is safe for the fish. I use aquarium salt at the dose of 1 tsp per gallon of water, this gives you 0.1% concentration. You will need to run the tank at 0.3%, but we can get into that later.

Post back soon and we can go from there.

Thanks for providing all that information. I think your NitrAte kit must be reading incorrectly, you should definately have some nitrAtes showing, they would probabley be pretty high too. Also I assume that you use some type of water conditioner/dechlorinator.

I can see part of the problems straight away. There are 6 good sized fish in the tank and the recommended stocking level would be 4 fish, based on 1 fish per 10 gallons guideline. Also, even with 4 fish in the tank it would be recommended to do weekly water changes of 25% or more. This is why I believe your NitrAtes should be reading high and possibley having a bad effect on your fish.

I would suggest cycling your 33 gallon and putting 3 of your goldfish in there to spread the load. Just an idea.

Spitting out food happens because the throat area is too sore to eat, perhaps this is related to the cyst? The other symptoms, sitting on the bottom, frayed fins, bloody streaks and cloudy eye all sound like a bacterial infection.

It's possible your new fish has passed on some nasty germs.

You need to get hold of some type of antibacterial medication from your petstore. If you are in the US you can order medicated food on-line from Goldfish Connection called Medigold. This is probabley the best treatment for internal bacterial infections, although you would need to try to encourage your fish to eat?

Yes the filter cartridge is changed every 2 weeks and algae is removed from the aquarium as soon as it pops up....i vaccum the bottom every 2 weeks, and take out a few gallons, but i had no idea that 3-4 weeks for changing the water (not vaccuming) was bad everywhere ive read and asked, the bigger the tank, the less often water changing should be done becuase itll mess up the biological filtration ect.....and ive heard that tanks are established after 6months....


i heard it was 2 gallons of water per inch of fish....the tank has been cycled...used nitromax/biozyme for building up good bacterial levels


thanks for your help....-sanda-

nirates-0ppm....ive ordered the strip test kit too...right now im using the one with the glass vial and drops...

"Spitting out food happens because the throat area is too sore to eat, perhaps this is related to the cyst? The other symptoms, sitting on the bottom, frayed fins, bloody streaks and cloudy eye all sound like a bacterial infection. " i agree it does sound bacterial (from my expirience with gupps) but i said hes at the top, and i didnt say he has bloody streaks {just for clarification-idk if itll make a difference or not...}


i have a TON of medicines...and a hospital tank (but the problem is the nitrates in there are 2ppm, and the amonia is 1ppm, so its out of the question to move him to there....

im very much against treating the tank with medicines because i know the adverse effects (even though the meds claim not to the DO mess up biological bacteria, i know that from a bad expirience with columnaris/saddleback columnaris which attacked my gupps....)


so anyway---i have Maracyn 1 +2, Tetracycline, MelaFix, Methlyn Blue, 3% Peroxyide, Aquarium Salt, Clout, and i have Gel foods which treat bacterial infections, i've also ordered BIOBANDAGE and a pellet food which will treat bacterial infections.....

anyway- thanks again! im really xxxx off that i didnt know about 10gallons per fancy before! i swear this is the first im hearing of it!!!!!! why isnt it more mainstream? even books dont say it or anything...it sucks because now my tank is overcroweded and i KNOW that spells trouble

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but your stocking levels for fish per gallons were terribly misguided. For tropical fish it can be 1-2 inches of fish per gallon of water. But gf are not tropical fish, and grow to be much bigger. Even when small they produce alot more waste (toxins) than tropicals. So they have different requirements.

Changing the filter is not necessary every couple weeks, even every couple months. This is where the good bacteria live so only rinsing it in tank water pulled off the tank is the recommendation. Of course there are times when you have to change it, maybe 2-3 times per year and even then some members do it yearly. Only when it starts falling apart should you change it. And then not during a water change.

Were there ever nitrate readings in the tank? If not then no the tank has never cycled. Nitrates are the good bugs. Just adding the above mentioned helps but doesn't cement the cycle. There is no time limit on establishing a tank. It varies depending on how long the nitrogen cycle takes in completing it's job. A brief summary goes like this.....ammonia is detected and after a bit the nitrites kick in and finally the ammonia drops off. At that time nitrates begin to show and only after the nitrites fall to 0 and the nitrates are between 5-20 is the tank cycled. (during this time the fish can become very sick and you run the risk of losing them when cycling with them in the tank).

I see that you are using the drop test kits....those are best. The strips are a waste of money they are inacurate.
Since you are using the drop nitrate kit, I have to ask are you following the directions for shaking the bottles exactly? If not this can give you are false reading. It is very important to do exactly what the directions say.

Again I stress the salt to help your fish. Salt is not a medicine persay, but will kill most parasites and is a natural stress reliever for the fish. It helps with so many things. I highly recommend going this route first. I too don't like using meds when I can avoid it. That is why the salt is my first choice. Really to be honest if you hit him or that tank with meds, you are asking for problems as you well know.

It is true that the world is not caught up with gf stocking levels or even what type water they require. But then again most stores promote bowls, it is an industry in terrible need of education.

Sorry, I realise now you must be quoting the question when you wrote "bloody streaks".

Rather than change the filter cartridge every 2 weeks could you just rinse it in some old tank water to get rid of excess debris? This way you won't loose all the beneficial bacteria that has grown on the cartridge.

I gather you have some experience keeping tropicals, the 2 gallons per fish recommendation is generally used for them. Goldfish are bigger, eat and poop a lot more. The waste generated by a goldfish is similar to that of an oscar.

You have a whole host of medications there. I would choose the marcyn 1 & 2 after you do a largish water change, say 50%. Also if you can get your fish to eat, that medicated gelfood may be of assistance.

Sandra mentioned parasites, are any of your fish flashing? swimming in crazy short outbursts or scratching/rubbing on gravel or ornaments? If you see any of this behaviour it would indicate a parasite infection.

Opps Annette we posted at the same time.

CSI, I should also let you know that it is fact that 99% of gf coming from stores have at least 1 parasite, usually more. There are a whole list of symptoms ranging from yawning, spitting food, clamped fins, rubbing on things, flashing or darting around the tank, gulping air.....etc.
Often we don't notice any problems until a gf's immune system is compormised.........bad water, over crowding, another illness. Only then do we see the symptoms. This is because they can often keep the parasite in check, but once they can't anymore we see the symptoms.

thanks much!!! you guys have enlightened my knowledge of goldies alot!!!!!


i completely understand the size thing....the betta industry does the same! its really scandelous!!!!!

i have heard they put out more waste...higher ammonia ect....
i realize theres always gonna be parasites, but, i havent noticed flashing, scratching ect on any gf....but- a while ago i had a fishlice, but i removed it and never found more...lemony snicket had it...but hes ok now....

i lost a panda butterfly (to unknown, no symptoms...he literally got a little pale and within 3 days dropped dead!) and a blue oranda (to dropsy) since january....could this be related? id feel like a %$&* if my actions (or lack there of {proper cycling}) did something....

nitrates/nitrites...i thought the test was for both-i dont have a nitrate test kit...i was told its unnessicary? ive ordered those test strips and it has nitrates on it....i suppose i really DONT know then if the tank has been cycled, as i have never tested for nitrates apparently! grr....im such an idiot...

oh -and w/ the filter cartridge, if its not cleaned every 2 weeks or so it gets full of gunk from the tank and some cambodia/anachuris leaves...then it dosent function properly....so how can i leave it for months????the biowheel is never cleaned-thats where all the bacteria is right???or is that a common misconception too???!!!!


thanks again! you guys are truely expert and i appreciate your time && help!!!!

I know how frustrating it is, but don't kick yourself too bad. You are only as good as your knowledge, now that you know better you will do better. So don't beat yourself up for not knowing.

It is true that the biowheel holds the good bacteria, but it is only a "backup" to the filter media. The reason the filter is gets so bad is again........overstocking. Once you get this resolved you will probably see a difference. I even scape it while "swishing" it in the tank water, this helps to remove the "hard on stuff".

I would highly recommend the nitrate drop kit instead of the test strips. It is essential to know what the levels are and usually the strip only do "good, safe and not safe" readings. And people are misguided because they think safe is that safe, when it can be dangerous as well.
So with what you said above, yeah I don't know if your tank is cycled or not. We'll see huh? I guess is that it is either not, or you have a very high nitrates reading and that is just as bad.
Again I can't stress enough having drop tests to test this.

It is possible that the other 2 fish are related to what is going on. But you may never know.

thanks! i will try the salt thing, and i will update you guys later on his condition....no more goldies for a while!!!!!! and the order will come in within a few days so ill test for nitrates then!




thanks again for your help-and it really is true that youre no better than what you know...im such an idiot...i thought the 2inch per gallon sseemed "fishy"....anyway-ill be back! i love this fourm and im so glad that it exists! keep up the excellent work!wish id found it sooner...the overcrowding couldve maybe been avoided! :'(!---sanda <3!

Sounds good, keep us updated. In the meantime I would do a 30% water change per day. What type of water conditioner are you using during these changes.

How are things going?