Test Results for the Following:
Ammonia Level?

Nitrite Level? 0.25

Nitrate level? 10

Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? 7.8

Ph Level out of the Tap? 7.8

Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? 20 gallon, running 3 months

What is the name and size of the filter/s? TopFin 20, I purchased a "starter kit" from Pets Mart

How often do you change the water and how much? Daily As Needed

How many fish in the tank and their size?
1-Moor
2-Fantails
1-Common

What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime

Any medications added to the tank? No

Add any new fish to the tank? No

What do you feed your fish? TetraFin Goldfish Flakes

Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt",
bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Tail fins of one fantail and moor are frayed. Moor has white edges to tail fin, hard to tell with the fantail, this is a mostly white fish

Any unusual behavior like staying
at the bottom, not eating, ect..? No, acting and eating normally

Hello all, this is my first post. I have been haging in the background watching, but I am very concerned for my fish now. Actually, I was embarrassed to post because I know that my aquarium is very overstocked.

I have noticed that the tails of two of my fish are becoming frayed and considerably shorter. The fish, to my knowledge, how been healthy before this. I am very faithful with my water testing and changes. The only thing I can think of is I was out of town for a weekend and didn't get to change the water. As a matter of fact, after this weekend is when I noticed the problem.

I also want to tell you that when I changed the water this morning, about 75%, I also preformed a Salt Dip on all four fish. I thought this might help. I do not have any medicine here to treat fin rot. The only thing I have on hand is Ich Guard and some Parasite Clear by Jungle Labs.

I am just not sure what to do!

Welcome to the forum. I noticed you did not put an ammonia reading. I recommend buying an ammonia test kit if you do not already have one.

For the number and type of fish you have, it is best to have at least a 50 gallon tank. Until you are able to purchase a larger tank, you will probably need to change the water 25% 2 to 3 times per day. Check the water parameters with the same frequency and change the water anytime you show ammonia or nitrite readings (these should be zero) or nitrate higher than what you get from your tap water. You may also need to add biofilter capacity. Perhaps some of the others on the forum may have more knowledge on this as I am not familiar with your brand of filter.

With the filter, do you know what the gallons per hour are? With goldfish, you would want a filter that can turn the water over about 15 times per hour. For example, with your 20 gallon tank you will need a filter with an output of 300 gallons per hour.

Sorry about the ammonia reading. I must have erased it by accident. The ammonia reading is 0.

I have a friend who is giving me a 20 gallon today. I thought about moving 2 of the fish there. I hate to move them with it not being cycled, but it might be better in the long run.

No, I do not know what the filters specs are. It's probably not enough, like I said I bought a starter kit.

Hi and welcome, don't be embarrased most people who come here find they are overstocked. A problem with the fish stores being uneducated.

As I sure you have read the overstocking, just thought I would mention that it is not a good idea to keep the common in with the fancy fish.
They are much faster and can often cause eating problems or bullying problems with the fancy ones, especially the moor.

I wouldn't worry about starting any med at this time. Most likely the cause of your problems are in direct connection with the water problems. Solve that and in a couple days the fin should heal.

A filter should filter 10 times the gallons an hour. For example a 20 gal tank should have a filter that filters 200 gals an hour.

Thanks for correcting me on the flowrate Laurie. Also I meant to say per week, not day.

No problem, how are things? You think you got a hold on what to do?

I believe so, but I learn new things every day

When you get your second tank set up, I suggest keeping the common by itself. Common goldfish need 20 gallons per fish because they can get quite big and they are strong swimmers. Like LaurieP mentioned, they can bully the fancy goldies. How big are the 2 fantails and the moor? If they are small, you should be able to keep the 3 in their own tank for the short term, but eventually you will need to have a 30 gallon for the 3 fancies. If you decide to put the fish in the new tank before it's cycled, be sure to test for ammonia and nitrite daily and make 25-30% water changes when you get spikes in the readings.

Thanks for all the information guys. I am no stranger to frequent water changes. I didn't know anything about tank cycling until I found this site. And, of course, that was after I set up my tank. I have to sometimes change my water 2 or 3 times a day.

So, what are the next steps? I didn't get the new tank today. There was a lot going on at work today, so we didin't get a chance to talk about it.

What about the salt dip, will that help?

Really you need to check the ammonia before going further. As well as the other levels.

The biggest thing is getting the water good. Salt a low levels help to reduce stress. I do not think dips at this point are needed. Dips can be very stressful, even dangerous if they fish is under 4 inches.

I am not sure how big your fish is. But water is the way to go. Then it will take time to heal.

I agree with everyone who's replied so far. Chuck out that TopFin filter - I started with one too, without knowing better. Get yourself something at least 200 gph for the 20 gallon tank.

If you're starting a second 20 gallon tank with the same fish from the original tank, why not use your old filter media and a little old water to jump start the new tank? Then your fishies won't be as stressed with the move.

FTB

My ammonia level is at 0ppm. My tank is almost fininshed cycling. I have a nitrItes reading of 0.25ppm and nitrAtes of 5ppm.

Ok, nixing the salt dips. Do you think I should bring the salt level in the tank up? And to what level?

Hopefully, I will get that other tank in the next few days. There were execs from corprate shaking down our boss today, so things were a little crazy. How can we be sure that it's not some kind of infection and just from water issues?

My comet and one of my orandas had the same problem that ended up being a water quality issue with high nitrates. The comet was most noticable with a damaged fin and a red streaking on the damaged area. I isolated her in a 20 gallon tank for about 2 weeks. I treated with antibiotics the first 5 days, but it didn't seem to make a difference. The red streaking didn't start to clear until the end of the 2 weeks, so I believe it was not an infection, but high nitrates that did it.

I was overstocked (7 fish in a 46 gallon!) and after putting my 2 orandas in their own 20 gallon and making 25% water changes 2 or 3 times a week on the main tank, the fin trouble is on the mend. I'm still overstocked, but as long as I keep on top of the water quality, then I will be ok. I of course still need a larger tank for my commons and comets, but that will be a signifigant purchase for later.

I'm not sure if you've checked for alkalinity (Kh) or general hardness. If you don't have a kit for that, you should be able to have it tested at a LFS. If the Kh is low, then you might be getting fluctuating PH levels. I saw where you measured 7.8 on your original post. Before you do your next water change, test the PH in the tank to see if it has gone up or dropped since you last tested it.

On the salt issue, you can use 4 teaspoons of salt for your 20 gallon tank. This will help protect your fish from the nitrites until your tank cycles. Only add new salt again after a water change. Be sure to use "aquarium salt" not table salt.

My pH tested 7.8 this morning before I changed the water this morning, 75%. My pH stays pretty consistent. No real wild flucuations in it. I DO have the KH and GH tests, I just can't find them. My kid is hiding them somewhere, he's bad about that. I will keep looking for them this morning.

Hopefully, I will get that other tank this week.

I don't have any aquarium salt. I do, however, have some canning salt. This is safe, it doesn't have any anticaking agents in it.

What level should I bring the salt up to?

The 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons will bring it to about .1%. This would be a good concentration to help protect against nitrites

im sure its 1 teaspoon per gallon to bring it up to 0.1%

Oh, ok. but I got the information on one of the topics in the FAQ section.

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...p?showtopic=917

I am familiar with how to bring the level up, thanks for the information. I was just wondering if a higher level, say 0.3% would help any with the fin damamge. Promote better healing. Or, is a concentration of this level just for treating ich?

I appreciate all the help. Another question I have is, how long will the recovery process be? When should I expect to see their fins getting better? I find it odd that it is just the two smaller fish that this is affecting. I have 2 fantails and 1 moor. The larger fantail shows no signs of fin damage. He's shaped more like a common than a fantail, but he has a double tail. He's the biggest fish I have in the tank.

I am rambling now. I am going to bring the salt level up right now.

EDIT-I found this link about salt dosage, its suggests a 0.3% level for prevenitive and general nitrite protection
http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=19263
http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=12600

You can raise the salt to 0.3% if you want it shouldn't hurt them.

But to answer the question on how long till the fins heal, that depends. You can see improvement in a few days to a few weeks. As long as the water is perfect and the fish is acting ok that is a good sign.

have you tried melafix? i've been treating my oranda for the pass 2 weeks and its been helping. also, adding plants will drop the nitrates.

No I have not tried melafix. I am trying not to use any medications in the tank, if at all possible. It seems to be a water quality issue.

The fish are doing well, eating and behaving normally. Should I be adding meds?

Melafix is supposed to help promote healing. I've never tried it myself Once you have your water parameters at good levels, you can use it to speed up the healing process, After 7 days of dosing, use a 25% water change and carbon to remove the residue.