We need input here. We have been dealing with our 5" RedCap Oranda for a few months now. She has ONE side of her body with pinky/lite reddish scale problems. It has improved with Medigold treatment for 1 month, have added salt to 3% ( for about a month's time, was told not to leave salt in tank on regular basis?), do reg water changes, we have Nitrate issues, so test it twice a week, do 50% changes if necessary. This scale issue is not healing completely, it's an uphill battle and we'd like to solve it.

She is eating (her appetite is huge!), swimming normally, not showing other signs of ???

We do not want to use chemical treatments, we have used Melafix, I just started treatment with this, today is day #3 using it. We also have Pimafix in the house.
Question? how long before we should see improvement? I know directions say 7 days, then 25% water change. We will do this.

Water chemistry: (Tank is 3yrs cycled)

Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 50 (these have fluctuated between 20-160! over the past few months)
Ph 7.2
Tap PH 7.5
Tap Nitrates 0
KH 90
GH 180-200


We are feeding ProGold, algae wafers, peas, we alternate, feeding less than months ago, in case we're overfeeding.
Use Nova Aqua Plus as water treatment w/water changes. The other details are at bottom with my profile.

We have added baking soda to raise KH too, using the calculator process, it is better now, but we have to watch it, seems to rise way up when it wants to. We have also added a 12" airstone for better circulation.

Here is a picture or two of Lexi's body, the pic looks darker and worse than it does in real life, but gives an idea:



Thanks!
Lynn

Are the scales raised at all on that side?

Hi Erin, wow, fast reply, I was still editing! No, the scales are NOT raised, I would describe them as more frayed, part of her side has normal scale appearance, this other part seem to have lost scales, it looks very flat, even, scales not present.
Also, her Wen has not grown well, seems to have gotten thinner in the past months? Her eyes have been covered with Wen? skin as I have read? Her other side of her body is fine, normal, healthy looking scales, silvery white. As of yesterday, we see a few red spots on her tailfin too.? does this give more details ?

Thanks for any input, we want closure here.. The other two large fish are FINE too..???? we don't get it.??

Lynn

Hmm since the scales arent a bit raised Im not sure. My red cap had similar markings but SLIGHTLY raised scales on the one side. I treated with Maracyn 2 and he is well and healthy today. Hopefully someone will come along to help you out that has more knowledge than I. Good luck!

Edit : Wow the pic shows up more clear for me now. Poor thing. Im hoping for the best for your baby.

Lynne I am sorry to see your poor fish, that looks so bad.

I have to ask, how did these sores appear? What happened to cause this?

Next I would put her on the Medigold and leave her on it exclusivly for at least 2 weeks. At that time if they are still there another 2 weeks.
This looks to be infected and can lead to extreme problems if left on it's own.
I know that you really don't want to use medicines but this is very crucial. With those sores if left unchecked could end up with septicimia. A very bad internal infection.

I would recommend using Maracyn asap. Of course not with melafix.

Hi Erin and Laurie, Should I finish the last 4 days with Melafix and see what happens? We have had good results in the past,, but?? AND, if I use Maracyn, what about medicating the other 2 fish and the dwarf plecos in the tank? is this okay? Why do you both choose Maracyn as the treatment out of curiosity?

thank you.. I am concerned, we love all our Fishies! Lexi is a gentle, sweet fish....

thanks, Lynn

Laurie, also, if I choose to use Maracyn, should I do a big 50% (or more) water change to make sure the Melafix is removed? is there a problem mixing a bit of Melafix with Maracyn?

Do I remove charcoal using Maracyn too? it is removed while using Melafix of course.

Erin mentioned Maracyn 2, is there a M. 1 and M. 2? I am not familiar with this product.. please help.

as far as WHY the infection?? we don't know, the only thing that has been an issue is the high Nitrates, but we are constantly checking, doing w. changes for that, adding baking soda ? could Lexi be more sensitive and water problems started this? we also had too low KH along with this. baking soda was added to raise the KH actually.

Laurie, also, if I choose to use Maracyn, should I do a big 50% (or more) water change to make sure the Melafix is removed? is there a problem mixing a bit of Melafix with Maracyn?

Do I remove charcoal using Maracyn too? it is removed while using Melafix of course.

Erin mentioned Maracyn 2, is there a M. 1 and M. 2? I am not familiar with this product.. please help.

as far as WHY the infection?? we don't know, the only thing that has been an issue is the high Nitrates, but we are constantly checking, doing w. changes for that, adding baking soda ? could Lexi be more sensitive and water problems started this? we also had too low KH along with this. baking soda was added to raise the KH actually.

the puzzler is that our other 2 large fish, a Black Moor and a Calico Shubunkin do not have these issues??????

Lynn

There is a Maracyn 1 and 2. I used Maracyn 2 for early signs of dropsy but Lexi doesnt appear to have that.

Certain fish can be more sensitive to water conditions than others Ive found.

Im not good with fishy diseases so Im sorry I cant be of more help!!

Oh one more thing, yes remove the carbon/charcoal when using the Maracyns.

Lynne,

I like Maracyns because they are a very good antibotic treatment. I just have not had any luck with melafix, others have had good sucess with it for minor problems but nothing major.

I don't advise using them together. I would do a 30-50% water change, depending on the levels of the tank and then run carbon for 24 hours to make sure all melafix is removed.
Then you will need to remove the carbon before running the Maracyn treatment. Be aware though that Maracyn can mess with the tank's cycle so test daily for all water chems.

If you have a hospital tank then I would isolate the fish, if not is shouldn't hurt the other or the plecos.

Oh there are Maracyn and Maracyn 2, one covers gram positive bacterias and the other gram negative. They are often very good being used back to back.

I am wondering about the plecos.........how big are they? Plecos have been known to "suck" on gf. This is why only rubberlip and bristlenose plecos are recommended to be housed with gf.
So you could have an issue with this. The pattern of the "wounds" look alittle "sporatic" as if something was "sucking or plucking" at the scales.
It is possible that an infection has started do to nitrate poisioning but I am suspecious again that it might be something else or even a contributing factor.

As for the other 2 fish, they could just be stronger or more immune to the water issues. Could be that the plecos only pick on this one fish. Could be both.
Either way I would remove the plecos and go from there. Isolate the sick fish if you can, but still work on the water for the other 2.

Hi Laurie, I know about Plecos sucking the slime coat off of GF. Ours are the Dwarf Bristlenose, 3" long, they barely leave their caves. We have had up to 6 GF varieties in the tank for 3yrs and none have had this issue, so we doubt it's the Plecos. They love their caves, come out to eat algae wafers in daylight (which is not normal from all I read!) and go back into the caves.. we don't see them out at nite, we have to scrub algae off the glass more than we should be too... This in my intuition doesn't seem the problem...
We have a 10 gallon tank with 3 baby GF right now, we are planning to transfer them to the 60 gall where Lexi is, when the bacterial problem is cleared up, water chemistry is better..
I may take the Plecos out to the 10gallon tank and see if this comes back or is the issue, not sure..
Our Nitrates were never tested, all other tests were done, I didn't realize how vital this was, so we just started monitoring this last November, and adjusting the best we can!
Our KH has been too low too since this time, so working on getting things better.
Lexi's Wen seems to have grown over her eyes too, and is not getting thicker? seems to go along with the other problem with her in general.
I am keeping an eye on things and will do the best I can.
I don't want to move the babies into this tank right now, they could get the bacterial infection too, right?

thanks again, Laurie!
I feel very overwhelmed right now with Lexi, we are having some other serious issues in our family/homelife, so I want to solve it, with Melafix or Maracyn, but get Lexi better!
I am a huge animal lover, take great care for them, breaks my heart when they are sick.. We also have 4 kitties.... I used to work at our local animal shelter, was a board member.

We have 3 more days of Melafix, then I will do what you suggested, see how Maracyn works...

As of today, Lexi's scales seem improved from the Melafix. We have seen the scales improve with salt too, and water changes, then it gets worse again.... hope this puts an end to the rollercoaster ride!

I need a break.

Lynn

Lynne I myself wouldn't continue the Melafix, but do a water change, add the carbon back to the filter and run it 24 hours to remove the med from the water. Then I would start the Maracyn. I also would start the fish on Metromed from goldfish connection, asap. This is a vital step. The fish needs antibotics to battle that infection. As bad as it is I really don't think it is going to heal completely without them.

I know that you say the plecos are harmless, but I too just recently thought my rubberlip (who is suppose to be ok with gf) was not attacking my gf. Their fins kept getting frayed..........sure enough I sat for a few hours by the tank (I was sick on the couch) and watched him repeatedly run out to "bite" at the fins and run back to his "cave". It is amazing how quickly they can do it and be gone not leaving a trace.

Lynne how are things?

Hi Laurie, well, yesterday was day #7 using Melafix, Lexi's scales have improved, have lightened, not as red, look healed, but not completely yet. I debated, called A. Pharm for help, they didn't return my call. We had to do our water change today, it was a week, plus we normally do changes each week.. I put in another dose, thinking maybe in a few days things will heal enough? wasn't sure.. Then, planned on reposting here for your advice and others here who are helping me.
The Melafix does show signs of doing something, just not sure --- do we then wait or is the idea to treat and things improve rapidly to prove what we are using is the correct choice? you know, Maracyn instead now ?
I will use it if it has to be done, just don't want the other fish bothered, including the dwarf bristlenose Plecos. If I can get the problem solved with Lexi, I have 3 babies that were going into this 60 gallon tank, they are about 2" in size, 2 Orandas, 1 Lionhead. I then can transfer the 2 dwarf Plecos to the 10 gallon tank and see what happens in the large tank with the GF.
It's probably not a great idea to transfer the babies to the tank with the bacterial thing going on with Lexi, correct?
the tank levels seem to run the same, a little battle with KH too low, and Nitrates a bit high at times, but we water change as needed.
** you mentioned Maracyn may disrupt the tank levels,??? what may happen and what do I do to remedy things if something changes? what has been your experience with this if any, Laurie? thanks again.

I need this healed already, it's been a few months.. I'm mentally tired.
I get upset seeing my fish or cats sick.....

So, since I dosed the tank after 50% water change today, guess I could do another change tomorrow, then run filter w/charcoal for 24hrs as you said... get Maracyn, hope it's sold at petstores? I'm nervous using it, I've never used anything chemical...

sorry, this is long, I'm stressed and sharing all that's on my mind now.

I appreciate the help and quick replies here.. it's SO comforting when going thru these things.. such nice people here!

Lynn * yet another line here-- I am feeding Lexi Medigold since I have it here... that's as good as the one you mentioned, Metromed, right?

Yes I like Medigold too. I would feed her that exclusivly for at least 2 weeks maybe more depending on how it is healing.

Really at this point the Melafix isn't helping, yes a bit but it is not strong enough to really do something. I would run the carbon now for 24 hours and start the Maracyn. I know it can be scary but really I don't think with a infection like that she will hang on much longer. All that bacterial will get into the blood stream soon and then it is too late.

Maracyn is an antibotic. Therefore it kills bacteria, whether it is good or bad bacteria. So it can kill off the good nitrate bacteria. So you have to test the levels everyday and make water changes as if the tank were "recycling". When you do these changes you have to measure the water you are removing and add that much med back to the tank.

Also with Maracyn usually by day 2 or so the tank becomes very very cloudy. It is nothing to worry about, it can scare you so I want to prepare you for it. Just continue on.

I really do think it is the way to go.

Hi Laurie, I called Aq Pharm, and asked their opinion on this too. A very nice man, Craig, said if there is sign of improvement, he suggested staying with Melafix for another week, maybe more, I asked how long we could stay with it for treatment? He said his fish owners have used it for a month at a time with good results..
Like I said, too, the picture that got pasted on this forum looks darker and worse actually, yes, she is missing scales, but they have lightened up alot with the week of Melafix, and Craig said now, it's just time for the complete healing, regrowth.
He also said our bio filter will be messed up, and that's an issue too, if I can avoid dealing with that, I want to.
We have been dealing with high Nitrates and low KH the way it is, I want to wait a bit longer.. she is looking better right now. I'm feeding her Medigold too.
I like natural treatments, our family uses herbal remedies, havn't taken synthetic drugs for about 11yrs, no antibiotics, tylenol, NOTHING. and we are healthier, same for my kitties, they see a holistic vet, eat the most natural food, higher quality.
I will keep you updated, and hope this solves the problem.
If I have to use Maracyn, I will, but my gut says to wait a bit longer.
I will try to send a more recent picture of her tonite, to show the difference in her coloring/scales...

thanks for your help!
I'll keep in touch!

Lynn

How are things going Lynne?

Hi Laurie, I rec'd an email reply notification inmy mail today, went to the Forum, and I do not see anything new from you?? hmmm
Did you read my post 2 days ago, update on the Melafix usage, what I chose to do for now? please do read it, and reply if you have any other tidbits.. I have to post something else concerning my Plecos, and what to do with the baby GF in our 10gallon tank... mainly, switching tanks between the two groups? not sure, KH, Nitrate levels I'm keeping an eye on.. will retype something more detailed for everyone to read and tell me what you would do in my case here? want the best for my fancies.....I didn't get to post a newer pic of Lexi, will try later tonite, tomorrow, have had doc appts. busy... there is improvement for sure!

thanks again, Lynn

Lynne I don't know if the email you got was just letting you know I had responded do this thread or what? I didn't send an email to you.
Yes I had kept up on your thread, was waiting for an update.
I am glad that your baby seems to be doing better. Pics is always nice.

Since she is doing better, I am going to move your thread out of the 911 section. Let us know how things are though. If things get bad again let us know and we can move this thread back.