hi,
I have a 42gallon tank, with 2 aquar clear filters, one is up to 70gallon, the other up to 30gallon, both loaded with foam and matrix media. Has a marineland air pump 3000. There are 5 goldies and 1 alge eater. i know it's considered overstocking, i hope the filters, airpump and frequent water changes will make it ok.
i've been cycling the tank for about 3 months now... it took longer than most... finally the ammonia level is steadly on 0ppm. since then i've changed water 1x every week for 2 weeks now. this morning, i tested the water it's nitrite was at 5.0ppm and nitrate was at 10ppm. ph is at 8.0 (it's usually this high)
I did a 60% water change, since i've noticed "rising mouths" behavior in one of my fish. 1 have a little bit protruding anus (dont know if it has anything to do with water chemistry)
I retested the water, it's nitrite is at .25 & nitrate is at 5.0ppm. I added 11tbs of aquarium salt. and using prime.
should i add more salt? and how many tbs total, should i add into my 42gallon tank?
Should i add more salt everyday, until nitrite and nitrate is all gone?
should i keep changing water until NI and NA are gone, like how ammonia is treated?
how often should i do water changes with the conditions of my tank and fish without killing the cycling process?
thanks.
Full Version: Red Fin
How much salt did you add? 11 teaspoons or tablespoons? Keep in mind that salt does not evaporate or get filtered out in any way. The only way to remove it is thru water changes. And, when you do a water change you need to add back the appropriate amount of salt--depending on the salinity of the tank. More on that once you tell us how much salt has been added.
Nitrites at a level of 5 ppm is waaaaaaay too high. It's great that your ammonia is at 0 but now you need to get nitrites there. The only way to get rid of them (until your tank cycles) is by doing water changes. When your tank is cycling, you need to do water changes more often than once a week. And what do you mean by "rising mouth" behavior?
Test your water daily, if possible, especially now with your nitrites being so high. I wouldn't let them rise above 0.5 ppm. Prime is great and it does help detoxify the nitrites but it doesn't remove them. And if you're using Prime as directed (vs double or triple dosing), it's not detoxifying all of those nitrites.
Nitrates, on the other hand, are safe up to 40 ppm. Some members recommend not allowing them to get above 20. So you are OK there for now.
But you really need to concentrate on keeping your nitrites in a safer range. Zero nitrites is the goal and it may take a while to get there--but you will get there. In the meantime, test often and do water changes accordingly. It's good to see your water change brought the nitrites down to 0.25. Keep at it.
Also what is the pH of your tap water?
Nitrites at a level of 5 ppm is waaaaaaay too high. It's great that your ammonia is at 0 but now you need to get nitrites there. The only way to get rid of them (until your tank cycles) is by doing water changes. When your tank is cycling, you need to do water changes more often than once a week. And what do you mean by "rising mouth" behavior?
Test your water daily, if possible, especially now with your nitrites being so high. I wouldn't let them rise above 0.5 ppm. Prime is great and it does help detoxify the nitrites but it doesn't remove them. And if you're using Prime as directed (vs double or triple dosing), it's not detoxifying all of those nitrites.
Nitrates, on the other hand, are safe up to 40 ppm. Some members recommend not allowing them to get above 20. So you are OK there for now.
But you really need to concentrate on keeping your nitrites in a safer range. Zero nitrites is the goal and it may take a while to get there--but you will get there. In the meantime, test often and do water changes accordingly. It's good to see your water change brought the nitrites down to 0.25. Keep at it.
Also what is the pH of your tap water?
hi,
PH is 8.0, that's how it is from my tap. I think i added too much salt? I followed the .3% salt dosage... is that too much for nitrite?
how much am i supposed to add for a tank of 42gallon? i'm doing a water change right now and will not add anymore until i find out how much i needed to add... for nitrite
my fish are having a hard time breathing, i triple dose on Prime...
they started to have a thin layer of white patches on their skin... i dont konw if it's the salt or the prime or the nitrite... they have blood streaks on their tails, ragged fins are comming back, just like what happened when the ammonia was high before... they lost the shinny look on their scales. i am really worried!
i'm changing 60% water each day to keep nitrite @ .25ppm... it's not really high, but my babies are really suffering... their energy decreased... and i can't get it to 0ppm, with water changes... it worked when during the ammonia highs... but not nitrite...
my algea eatter is having a super hard time too...
help please.
please tell me in details what i should do, and how much of everything i should add in the tank... and would biospira help right now, if i can find it at a local store? or is it too late to put it in?
thanks.
PH is 8.0, that's how it is from my tap. I think i added too much salt? I followed the .3% salt dosage... is that too much for nitrite?
how much am i supposed to add for a tank of 42gallon? i'm doing a water change right now and will not add anymore until i find out how much i needed to add... for nitrite
my fish are having a hard time breathing, i triple dose on Prime...
they started to have a thin layer of white patches on their skin... i dont konw if it's the salt or the prime or the nitrite... they have blood streaks on their tails, ragged fins are comming back, just like what happened when the ammonia was high before... they lost the shinny look on their scales. i am really worried!
i'm changing 60% water each day to keep nitrite @ .25ppm... it's not really high, but my babies are really suffering... their energy decreased... and i can't get it to 0ppm, with water changes... it worked when during the ammonia highs... but not nitrite...
my algea eatter is having a super hard time too...
help please.
please tell me in details what i should do, and how much of everything i should add in the tank... and would biospira help right now, if i can find it at a local store? or is it too late to put it in?
thanks.
The thin layer of stuff could be their slime cost.
That 5.0 nitrite level is very toxic for your fish. When I was cycling (& it took me forever too) I tried to keep it at 1.0 or below. Sometimes that meant I needed to perform 2 waterchanges per day. Nitrite is as much of a killer as ammonia is & it can really attack their gills.
When cycling - I kept my tank at a .1% salt solution to help protect their gills(that's 1 teaspoon per gallon).
How much salt have you added total. This is a very important question.
Salt is not removed any way other than water changes so once you reach your goal - you add in only what you take out.
Some algae eaters do not do well with salt.
FOr a 42 gal tank, to salt to a .3% solution you need approx 126 teaspoons of salt. For a .1% solution you only need 42 teaspoons.(which is 14 tablespoons) When you perform water changes you DO NOT ADD BACK IN 42 teaspoons (unless you remove all of the water) FOr a 50% change (21 gallons) you need only add back 21 teaspoons.
It is very easy to oversalt a tank.
You want nitrAte. It's the sign that your tank is done cycling (when both ammonia & nitrite are at 0). You just don't want them too high.
Post back soon!
Jenn
That 5.0 nitrite level is very toxic for your fish. When I was cycling (& it took me forever too) I tried to keep it at 1.0 or below. Sometimes that meant I needed to perform 2 waterchanges per day. Nitrite is as much of a killer as ammonia is & it can really attack their gills.
When cycling - I kept my tank at a .1% salt solution to help protect their gills(that's 1 teaspoon per gallon).
How much salt have you added total. This is a very important question.
Salt is not removed any way other than water changes so once you reach your goal - you add in only what you take out.
Some algae eaters do not do well with salt.
FOr a 42 gal tank, to salt to a .3% solution you need approx 126 teaspoons of salt. For a .1% solution you only need 42 teaspoons.(which is 14 tablespoons) When you perform water changes you DO NOT ADD BACK IN 42 teaspoons (unless you remove all of the water) FOr a 50% change (21 gallons) you need only add back 21 teaspoons.
It is very easy to oversalt a tank.
You want nitrAte. It's the sign that your tank is done cycling (when both ammonia & nitrite are at 0). You just don't want them too high.
Post back soon!
Jenn
hi, thanks for the very detailed info...
I believe i put the most 11tablespoons of salt in the tank, but my algea eater is not doing well, and i dont know if it's the salt... it started to hang out at the top level of tank, so does that mean it's the nitrite? because it's hard to breath?
i did 2 water change today, but if i do that everyday, would it reverse the cycling effect? like it's too clean?
other than salt, water change and prime... is there anything else i can do to help my babies breath better? they're much less active and responsive when nitrite started to get high...
thank you again!
I believe i put the most 11tablespoons of salt in the tank, but my algea eater is not doing well, and i dont know if it's the salt... it started to hang out at the top level of tank, so does that mean it's the nitrite? because it's hard to breath?
i did 2 water change today, but if i do that everyday, would it reverse the cycling effect? like it's too clean?
other than salt, water change and prime... is there anything else i can do to help my babies breath better? they're much less active and responsive when nitrite started to get high...
thank you again!
Well - this is the problem when cycling with fish (& I'm not dissing you 'cause I cycled with fish too). You have to balance the needs of the fish & the needs of the cycle & that can be really tough. I always erred on the side of my fish. So that meant it took FOREVER (ok 13 weeks ) to cycle my first tank. Now I can seed from it so it takes me like 3 days now.
Anyway. Yup - it will take longer - but your fish clearly can't handle the high nitrite levels so I would test (& you may need to test twice per day) & change water based upon your test. You may need 1 change or 2 or maybe 1 large & one smaller one - just depends upon your water levels. That is most likely the reason they aren't very active & trying to hang out at the top of the tank.
Athough the Prime can be used in an emergency - it really isn't a replacement for just removing the nitrites. Having said that you can't remove all of them or you'll never cycle (that's why I found that 1.0 level worked for me. My fish could handle it & it built up the bacteria - albeit slowly).
In the meantime, everytime you change water - you have to add salt. If you haven't added any salt since you started adding salt & you've performed a few 60% changes - you have essentially no salt in there right now (& you know not to add it directly - you know you need to dissolve it first? I'm just checking 'cause that's the kind of stuff I needed when I was first starting out). Just remember to only add in what you take out.
The other thing to watch for is illness. High levels of nitrites can make your fish sick or leave them open to getting sick so just keep a very close eye on them.
Hope this helps! Post back if anything doesn't make sense!
Jenn
Anyway. Yup - it will take longer - but your fish clearly can't handle the high nitrite levels so I would test (& you may need to test twice per day) & change water based upon your test. You may need 1 change or 2 or maybe 1 large & one smaller one - just depends upon your water levels. That is most likely the reason they aren't very active & trying to hang out at the top of the tank.
Athough the Prime can be used in an emergency - it really isn't a replacement for just removing the nitrites. Having said that you can't remove all of them or you'll never cycle (that's why I found that 1.0 level worked for me. My fish could handle it & it built up the bacteria - albeit slowly).
In the meantime, everytime you change water - you have to add salt. If you haven't added any salt since you started adding salt & you've performed a few 60% changes - you have essentially no salt in there right now (& you know not to add it directly - you know you need to dissolve it first? I'm just checking 'cause that's the kind of stuff I needed when I was first starting out). Just remember to only add in what you take out.
The other thing to watch for is illness. High levels of nitrites can make your fish sick or leave them open to getting sick so just keep a very close eye on them.
Hope this helps! Post back if anything doesn't make sense!
Jenn
First let me say I'm not sure abou the algae eater--do you know what kind of algae eater it is?
Don't worry about doing a couple of water changes per day if that's what you need to do to keep the nitrite down. Most of the beneficial bacteria reside in the filter media, not free floating in the water. Unless you add BioSpira. After adding BioSpira it's a good idea not to do a waterchange for at least a week to give the bacteria a chance to colonate on the filter media. I probably wouldn't add teh BioSpira if you're doing frequent water changes.
How high is the nitrite getting between water changes?
As far as the salt goes, did you add it all at once or slowly over a 24 hour period? If you added all 11 tablespoons at once, it may have stressed them out a bit. But if it's been salted with 11 tablespoons for a couple of days they have probably adjusted to it by now.
Keep us posted!
Don't worry about doing a couple of water changes per day if that's what you need to do to keep the nitrite down. Most of the beneficial bacteria reside in the filter media, not free floating in the water. Unless you add BioSpira. After adding BioSpira it's a good idea not to do a waterchange for at least a week to give the bacteria a chance to colonate on the filter media. I probably wouldn't add teh BioSpira if you're doing frequent water changes.
How high is the nitrite getting between water changes?
As far as the salt goes, did you add it all at once or slowly over a 24 hour period? If you added all 11 tablespoons at once, it may have stressed them out a bit. But if it's been salted with 11 tablespoons for a couple of days they have probably adjusted to it by now.
Keep us posted!
thank you for all the info... very very helpful... oh and i dont feel dissed or anything. i'm very glad you guys are telling me what needs to be done... i only had goldfish for a year, and i did not do anything right for the first 9 months... so lots of things are still very new to me... and what i know is just from my limited experience... so any input is great and greatly appreciated.
I found out 4 months ago that i basically killed all the beneficial bacterials in my tanks, because i cleaned it too well... so everything was wasted, then my fish got sick, and marcyn2 killed everything else after that... so i'm starting over...
my fish are weakened by my mistakes, so i'm always so worried i'm doing something wrong with them, i just feel so guilty for making them sick...
it took my tank almost 2 full months to cycle through the ammonia part... i changed water almost every day to every 3 days... because my babies are not as healthy, and but they got better...
but it seems like nitrites is hitting them harder thann ammonia, i'm basically doing the same thing as cycling ammonia... is that the right way?
today, I did 1 large water change and 1 little change, and they're not hanging out at the top anymore for now, but patching white stuff on their bodies, slime coat i hope too... they have lots of blood streaks on the tails and a few blood spots, little ragged fins starting to develop... it looks so painful, and i wish they could tell me what i can do to make it better...
i think the algea eater is called pleco? i got it from petsmart. it is dark color with little tan spots...
and i didn't know i need to desolve the salt first before adding it too the tank... and i just dumped all tablespoons in at once... so i'll add them slowly from now on.
i see what you mean about having to have some nitrite for the tank to cycle... but how would i know if it's too much for my fish? if they started breathing more on the top level, like trying to sip air... does that mean it's too much for them to handle? and do a water change? or let them do that all day, and change water the next day? (nowadays i see everything as deadly to them, so i wonder if i'm over reacting?)
i also heard that raising tempeture to 75' would cycle it faster... but could goldfish handle that? because higher temp, means less oxygen in water? and would that mean nitrite will get higher faster? and could be more toxic?
oh and nitrite level goes up from .25ppm to .5ppm by the next day even with a 60% water change... is that too fast and too toxic?
again, thank you for everything, very helpful. my babies are so thankful, since their mommy is not so bright!
I found out 4 months ago that i basically killed all the beneficial bacterials in my tanks, because i cleaned it too well... so everything was wasted, then my fish got sick, and marcyn2 killed everything else after that... so i'm starting over...
my fish are weakened by my mistakes, so i'm always so worried i'm doing something wrong with them, i just feel so guilty for making them sick...
it took my tank almost 2 full months to cycle through the ammonia part... i changed water almost every day to every 3 days... because my babies are not as healthy, and but they got better...
but it seems like nitrites is hitting them harder thann ammonia, i'm basically doing the same thing as cycling ammonia... is that the right way?
today, I did 1 large water change and 1 little change, and they're not hanging out at the top anymore for now, but patching white stuff on their bodies, slime coat i hope too... they have lots of blood streaks on the tails and a few blood spots, little ragged fins starting to develop... it looks so painful, and i wish they could tell me what i can do to make it better...
i think the algea eater is called pleco? i got it from petsmart. it is dark color with little tan spots...
and i didn't know i need to desolve the salt first before adding it too the tank... and i just dumped all tablespoons in at once... so i'll add them slowly from now on.
i see what you mean about having to have some nitrite for the tank to cycle... but how would i know if it's too much for my fish? if they started breathing more on the top level, like trying to sip air... does that mean it's too much for them to handle? and do a water change? or let them do that all day, and change water the next day? (nowadays i see everything as deadly to them, so i wonder if i'm over reacting?)
i also heard that raising tempeture to 75' would cycle it faster... but could goldfish handle that? because higher temp, means less oxygen in water? and would that mean nitrite will get higher faster? and could be more toxic?
oh and nitrite level goes up from .25ppm to .5ppm by the next day even with a 60% water change... is that too fast and too toxic?
again, thank you for everything, very helpful. my babies are so thankful, since their mommy is not so bright!
Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate= 0ppm. ph 8.0
tank 10gallon with aquaclear filter upto 50gallon. marineland airmaster 3000, RenaCal glass heater.
i change water 1's a week, since water tests are fine.
tanks been running for 4 months, i believe it's fully cycled.
1 redcap "floaty" and 1 algea eater "ugly".
i use Prime @ recommended dosage.
no salt added. eats orange, algea disks @ some gelfood.
"floaty" floats while resting, he's been like this more than a 9months now. he's my oldest fish, he traveled from seattle to where i live about 1 yr ago, it was a hard trip. he's not constipation, nor do i think water quality is the issue this time... i believe it's swim bladder disease... although he has a hard time digesting regular food on a regular bases... i feed him mostly orange, the only thing that helped him swim upright and in a responsive mode, i feed some other food about 2 times a week, because if i feed anymore than this, he became unresponsive and would float for 2 days before returning back to his normal self. he's been fine with this diet so far...
he got bad fin rots during ammonia surge 2 months ago... but after cycling, he's been himself and healthy.
3 weeks ago, the algea eater died, it didn't really eat the algeas for a while, and i think it was because of the nitrite surge and salting the tank that made him sick and died, that algea eater was not healthy for a long while...
i bought another algea eater, and this one cleaned up the tank... nothing was wrong. everything was perfect for a good long month...
until i noticed "floaty" was floating upside down a little too much... starting 2 days ago... he would usually swim upright and greet anyone walking into the room. but he didn't. and i saw one of his fin, on his tummy, red, blood red, not just little streaks, it's 1/2 the fin blood red, and a little part of the tummy where the fin locates is also red. he has a hard time flipping over to his upright position... he was trying to get to his upright swimming mode, but can't... he struggled really hard, and ended up going around like crazy, almost like he's lost control of where he's going or he's trying to shake off that fin...
i dont know if that's a sign of dropsy? i hope it's not.
i dont know if he burned himself on the heater?
or if it's something else. i'm afraid to feed him other food at this time, since he's so weak right now.
Please tell me what to do. and maybe what "floaty" is sick of...
thanks.
tank 10gallon with aquaclear filter upto 50gallon. marineland airmaster 3000, RenaCal glass heater.
i change water 1's a week, since water tests are fine.
tanks been running for 4 months, i believe it's fully cycled.
1 redcap "floaty" and 1 algea eater "ugly".
i use Prime @ recommended dosage.
no salt added. eats orange, algea disks @ some gelfood.
"floaty" floats while resting, he's been like this more than a 9months now. he's my oldest fish, he traveled from seattle to where i live about 1 yr ago, it was a hard trip. he's not constipation, nor do i think water quality is the issue this time... i believe it's swim bladder disease... although he has a hard time digesting regular food on a regular bases... i feed him mostly orange, the only thing that helped him swim upright and in a responsive mode, i feed some other food about 2 times a week, because if i feed anymore than this, he became unresponsive and would float for 2 days before returning back to his normal self. he's been fine with this diet so far...
he got bad fin rots during ammonia surge 2 months ago... but after cycling, he's been himself and healthy.
3 weeks ago, the algea eater died, it didn't really eat the algeas for a while, and i think it was because of the nitrite surge and salting the tank that made him sick and died, that algea eater was not healthy for a long while...
i bought another algea eater, and this one cleaned up the tank... nothing was wrong. everything was perfect for a good long month...
until i noticed "floaty" was floating upside down a little too much... starting 2 days ago... he would usually swim upright and greet anyone walking into the room. but he didn't. and i saw one of his fin, on his tummy, red, blood red, not just little streaks, it's 1/2 the fin blood red, and a little part of the tummy where the fin locates is also red. he has a hard time flipping over to his upright position... he was trying to get to his upright swimming mode, but can't... he struggled really hard, and ended up going around like crazy, almost like he's lost control of where he's going or he's trying to shake off that fin...
i dont know if that's a sign of dropsy? i hope it's not.
i dont know if he burned himself on the heater?
or if it's something else. i'm afraid to feed him other food at this time, since he's so weak right now.
Please tell me what to do. and maybe what "floaty" is sick of...
thanks.
oh and i just went to check on floaty... and i found the 3 weeks new algea eater "ugly" is floating too... algea eater can't even suck onto the glass, to stay put... it's breathing and wiggle a little here and there, but look pretty bad... i did a 50% water change and dont know if it'll help anything... so please help... i have no idea what's wrong with them... is it too much Matrix media in the filter?
my algea eater died in the 42gallon tank... and my algea eater in my 10 gallon tank is dying... i have no idea whats going on... but now both tanks got problems...
sorry for the many updates...
the 2 goldfish that always hangs out on the top level of tank since nitrite problem... are refusing to eat... i tried feeding them, and they're just not interested... they started to eat less about 2 days ago, and today, just dont want food at all, they look a lot skinier since the the algea eater in this tank died... i'm afraid they wont make it...
help please!!
the 2 goldfish that always hangs out on the top level of tank since nitrite problem... are refusing to eat... i tried feeding them, and they're just not interested... they started to eat less about 2 days ago, and today, just dont want food at all, they look a lot skinier since the the algea eater in this tank died... i'm afraid they wont make it...
help please!!
First of all let me just say--don't feel guilty for making them sick. I have been treating my fish for parasites since before Halloween. I got a new fish and didn't quarantine him so he infected my tank. That's when I found this site. We all make mistakes. We learn from them and become better fishkeepers.
In general I think nitrites do tend to affect goldies more than ammonia. It often takes longer for the nitrites to get under control. Not to mention, they have already been thru the ammonia spikes so they have been stressed for a while then the nitrites come along.
The blood streak/spots could very well be from all the stress of the cycling. It may be from a secondary bacterial infection that they are not able to fight because they are stressed. I believe the water needs to get under control before any treatment is started for a bacterial infection. I will check on that for you.
Keep in mind when adding salt to your tank: it must be dissolved in tank water (or water added to the tank during a water change) and it should only be increased at a rate of 0.1% every 12 hours. Have you been replacing the salt in the water you change out? Or just changing the water, no salt added?
If after a water change your nitrites are down to 0.25 and 24 hours later it has only risen to 0.5, that amount of change should be fairly well tolerated. Prime will help to detoxify that amount of nitrites, especially if you are double dosing. However with all your fish have been thru I would do a waterchange once it has risen to 0.5%, perhaps a 50% change.
Raising the temp in your tank is probably a good idea. It should not only speed up the cycling process, but also boost your fishs' immune system. I'm keeping my treatment tank at 76* and they do fine with it. As long as your tank is sufficiently oxygenated--with surface agitation coming from the filter outflow and/or an airstones.
Hope that helps.
Post back soon.
In general I think nitrites do tend to affect goldies more than ammonia. It often takes longer for the nitrites to get under control. Not to mention, they have already been thru the ammonia spikes so they have been stressed for a while then the nitrites come along.
The blood streak/spots could very well be from all the stress of the cycling. It may be from a secondary bacterial infection that they are not able to fight because they are stressed. I believe the water needs to get under control before any treatment is started for a bacterial infection. I will check on that for you.
Keep in mind when adding salt to your tank: it must be dissolved in tank water (or water added to the tank during a water change) and it should only be increased at a rate of 0.1% every 12 hours. Have you been replacing the salt in the water you change out? Or just changing the water, no salt added?
If after a water change your nitrites are down to 0.25 and 24 hours later it has only risen to 0.5, that amount of change should be fairly well tolerated. Prime will help to detoxify that amount of nitrites, especially if you are double dosing. However with all your fish have been thru I would do a waterchange once it has risen to 0.5%, perhaps a 50% change.
Raising the temp in your tank is probably a good idea. It should not only speed up the cycling process, but also boost your fishs' immune system. I'm keeping my treatment tank at 76* and they do fine with it. As long as your tank is sufficiently oxygenated--with surface agitation coming from the filter outflow and/or an airstones.
Hope that helps.
Post back soon.
yes, i disolved the salt in a cup of tank water and then i pour it into the tank... i'm added them slowly, so hope it wont stress them out. i also raised the temp to 75'.
it seems like my fish are doing worse and worse by the hour... 1 of the goldfish is just hanging out at the bottom, i'm afraid she wont make it...
and most of them dont want to eat... what if they keep not wanting to eat?
there are lots of air bubbles in the tank, i've always keep an airpump there... and the filters are agititing the water... all of them are still breath quite fast and seemed to not have any energy left from breathing...
i'm wondering since i'm changing 50% water everyday, is that too stressful for the fish? or the salt would be enough help?
thank you for all your help.
it seems like my fish are doing worse and worse by the hour... 1 of the goldfish is just hanging out at the bottom, i'm afraid she wont make it...
and most of them dont want to eat... what if they keep not wanting to eat?
there are lots of air bubbles in the tank, i've always keep an airpump there... and the filters are agititing the water... all of them are still breath quite fast and seemed to not have any energy left from breathing...
i'm wondering since i'm changing 50% water everyday, is that too stressful for the fish? or the salt would be enough help?
thank you for all your help.
Sorry to hear you are having problems.
While I do think that the "floatiness" comes from SBD I believe there are other issues involved.
First being water issues. You said above that all was 0, if this is true the tank is NOT cycled. There have to be nitrates present in order for this to be.
Are you using the nitrate kits right? Often if you don't follow the directions to the exact it can be wrong. Please let me know if in fact they are 0.
Also getting us the results of the tap water is advisable.
Next the new algae eater could have brought something in. Not sure, for since "Floaty" already has issues it could be from this as well.
Bloody spots on the abdomen are indusive of a bacterial infection. I would recommend starting him on medicated food asap. One of my fish had this and it took several attempts to get rid of it. Leaving him on the Metromed food from goldfish connection for 30 days and nothing else.
Now whether the new fish brought something in or it is a bacterial infection from the SBD ??????? EIther way the med food is the way to go. It will be hard especially since he already has issues.
For the algae eater, I am not sure how to treat him. Would probably be a good idea to start a thread on him in the tropical sick section. But let everyone know what is going on here, we don't want things to get to confusing.
While I do think that the "floatiness" comes from SBD I believe there are other issues involved.
First being water issues. You said above that all was 0, if this is true the tank is NOT cycled. There have to be nitrates present in order for this to be.
Are you using the nitrate kits right? Often if you don't follow the directions to the exact it can be wrong. Please let me know if in fact they are 0.
Also getting us the results of the tap water is advisable.
Next the new algae eater could have brought something in. Not sure, for since "Floaty" already has issues it could be from this as well.
Bloody spots on the abdomen are indusive of a bacterial infection. I would recommend starting him on medicated food asap. One of my fish had this and it took several attempts to get rid of it. Leaving him on the Metromed food from goldfish connection for 30 days and nothing else.
Now whether the new fish brought something in or it is a bacterial infection from the SBD ??????? EIther way the med food is the way to go. It will be hard especially since he already has issues.
For the algae eater, I am not sure how to treat him. Would probably be a good idea to start a thread on him in the tropical sick section. But let everyone know what is going on here, we don't want things to get to confusing.
Ok, as Lisa informed me of the whole problem going on since Mar 10 I have now combined both threads since the original one was also getting in to helping the fish.
(if is always best to keep all info in one thread and spot if the fish are sick. That way those who help you know everything going on.).
Now to go back over a bit, I would agree that the salt is most likely what killed the first pleco. So If you are salting the tank now with another in it, you need to remove him and isolate him from the salt. (I too killed a pleco with salt before I knew so don't feel too bad).
With still thinking it could be a bacterial infection from the current symptoms I wouldn't change what I would do. But if the water is attributing or causing this infection getting it under control is as important.
(if is always best to keep all info in one thread and spot if the fish are sick. That way those who help you know everything going on.).
Now to go back over a bit, I would agree that the salt is most likely what killed the first pleco. So If you are salting the tank now with another in it, you need to remove him and isolate him from the salt. (I too killed a pleco with salt before I knew so don't feel too bad).
With still thinking it could be a bacterial infection from the current symptoms I wouldn't change what I would do. But if the water is attributing or causing this infection getting it under control is as important.
sorry i posted in 2 different place for the 2 diffent tanks... i didn't know if nitrite problem was really considered as 911 emergency. thanks for pulling them together.
yeah, sadly both algea eaters from 2 different tanks died this morning... they're the same kind of pleco from petsmart from the same tank there. the 42 gallon tank has salt it in, but the 10 gallon didn't... so maybe the algea eaters were sick when i bought them...?
the 10 gallon tank with floaty in it... was cycling, with ammonia going up, then algea started growing... but i never seen any nitrite or nitrate raising... i thought floaty just got lucky with a less painful cycling... i followed the directions and do the same thing with my 42 gallon tank. and the 42 gallon tank is having major nitrite problems, and a little raise in nitrate(water change was enough to lower it), but nitrite seems to be a major problems for 42gallon, and those fish there are now getting sick...
but floaty's 10 gallon tank was fine... i just dont know how the ammonia went away and then no nitrite or nitrate... it is very odd...
the tap water: ph 8.0-8.2 depends on different days... and 0ppm on ammonia, nitrite and nitrates... i'll look into the metromed right now...
please let me know if there's anything i should do right now for floaty and for my nitrite tank...
thank you very much.
yeah, sadly both algea eaters from 2 different tanks died this morning... they're the same kind of pleco from petsmart from the same tank there. the 42 gallon tank has salt it in, but the 10 gallon didn't... so maybe the algea eaters were sick when i bought them...?
the 10 gallon tank with floaty in it... was cycling, with ammonia going up, then algea started growing... but i never seen any nitrite or nitrate raising... i thought floaty just got lucky with a less painful cycling... i followed the directions and do the same thing with my 42 gallon tank. and the 42 gallon tank is having major nitrite problems, and a little raise in nitrate(water change was enough to lower it), but nitrite seems to be a major problems for 42gallon, and those fish there are now getting sick...
but floaty's 10 gallon tank was fine... i just dont know how the ammonia went away and then no nitrite or nitrate... it is very odd...
the tap water: ph 8.0-8.2 depends on different days... and 0ppm on ammonia, nitrite and nitrates... i'll look into the metromed right now...
please let me know if there's anything i should do right now for floaty and for my nitrite tank...
thank you very much.
oh, i forgot to mention... floaty wont eat anything... if i buy metromeds, would he still eat it? or is it too far gone? anything to help him want to eat again?
the 42 gallon tank, those fish also not interested in food... 2 had became very skinny from the past 2 days... how can i get them to eat again?
the 42 gallon tank, those fish also not interested in food... 2 had became very skinny from the past 2 days... how can i get them to eat again?
Ok, now I am a bit confused.
Was Floaty in the other tank and when he got sick you moved him to isolate him?
Or do you have 2 seperate tanks running? (not one being a "hospital" tank)
I can't honestly answer the eating question. Hopefully he will eat it, but then again.........???? The only thing you can do is try. Another member is trying a "garlic" soak with his med food, so if Floaty don't want to eat maybe you can try that. (if it comes to that paradket ((SP)) is the member doing it). So we can go over that then if need be.
Was Floaty in the other tank and when he got sick you moved him to isolate him?
Or do you have 2 seperate tanks running? (not one being a "hospital" tank)
I can't honestly answer the eating question. Hopefully he will eat it, but then again.........???? The only thing you can do is try. Another member is trying a "garlic" soak with his med food, so if Floaty don't want to eat maybe you can try that. (if it comes to that paradket ((SP)) is the member doing it). So we can go over that then if need be.
my 42gallon tank was cycling and floaty had the hardest time, he developed very bad ragged fins that looks like fine rot... so i took him out and put him in a 10gallon tank and took the good matrix media that has good bacterial growth for him. and he was back to normal 3 weeks after the move, now 3 months has past...
floaty also has a major floating problems, he had that since last summer, when i was away for a few months, my family babysit for me, and they did the best they could, but since then he can't digest regular food. he's a compulsive, fast eater, he always trys to eat everything before it sinks down to mid section of the tank... especially when there are other fishes in the tank. he will literally eat himself to death... so that's another reason i put him in a tank of his own, so i can give him food that he can digest... and feed small amounts of regular food for him in his servings. and he eats them slowly in his 10gallon tank... everything was fine, it was cycling and i thought it was all over... because ammonia went up, and it went down slowly, then everything tested as 0ppm. but then an algea eater died, i thought that algea eater was sick, and floaty seems fine, so i didn't pay too much attention to that, and bought a new algea eater, and the new one been in the 10gallon for 3 weeks, and this morning it died... i did not add any salt in that tank since cycling, because i heard if i add salt all the time, other disease might come stronger... now, out of no where, floaty got blood fins and blood spot for about 2 days... i did not do anything differently since 10gallone tank was set up other then adding that algea eater... today he can hardly move, i try feeding him orange, which has been curing every illness he had... he would also go and eat it no matter how sick he is, but today he would not eat it... and i'm really worried, i knew that floaty lived in bad condition in Seattle's chinatown store, and none of his tank mates even made it to 6 months, all had dropsy... but i'm hoping i can save floaty... the 10gallon was a hospital tank, but i decided to leave floaty there because of his digestive condition... so more like a private nursing home?
now my other tank, the 42 gallon, is in the middle of cycling, nitrite is killing them. it is at a constant .25-.5ppm. the algea eater in the 42 gallon also died this morning... (2 separate algea eater in 2 separate tanks, but they were bought from the same petsmart) about the goldfish, 2 sits on the bottom, in a slightly tilted position, getting none responsive by the hour. 2 on the top level, look real skinny and breathing really hard, totally refused to eat. all non active with layer of white coat, blood streaks and little clamped top fin. i'm currently doing a 50% water change first thing in the morning, and a 20% at night, since they tends to seem really bad around the afternoons... i did that for 2 days now and been changing water every morning for 4 days... they've only been getting worse and worse...
i'm afraid i'll find a dead body tomorrow morning... 2 algea eaters are already too much for me...
so please let me know what i'm doing wrong? why are they all sick?
greatly appreciate any kind of help.
thanks.
floaty also has a major floating problems, he had that since last summer, when i was away for a few months, my family babysit for me, and they did the best they could, but since then he can't digest regular food. he's a compulsive, fast eater, he always trys to eat everything before it sinks down to mid section of the tank... especially when there are other fishes in the tank. he will literally eat himself to death... so that's another reason i put him in a tank of his own, so i can give him food that he can digest... and feed small amounts of regular food for him in his servings. and he eats them slowly in his 10gallon tank... everything was fine, it was cycling and i thought it was all over... because ammonia went up, and it went down slowly, then everything tested as 0ppm. but then an algea eater died, i thought that algea eater was sick, and floaty seems fine, so i didn't pay too much attention to that, and bought a new algea eater, and the new one been in the 10gallon for 3 weeks, and this morning it died... i did not add any salt in that tank since cycling, because i heard if i add salt all the time, other disease might come stronger... now, out of no where, floaty got blood fins and blood spot for about 2 days... i did not do anything differently since 10gallone tank was set up other then adding that algea eater... today he can hardly move, i try feeding him orange, which has been curing every illness he had... he would also go and eat it no matter how sick he is, but today he would not eat it... and i'm really worried, i knew that floaty lived in bad condition in Seattle's chinatown store, and none of his tank mates even made it to 6 months, all had dropsy... but i'm hoping i can save floaty... the 10gallon was a hospital tank, but i decided to leave floaty there because of his digestive condition... so more like a private nursing home?
now my other tank, the 42 gallon, is in the middle of cycling, nitrite is killing them. it is at a constant .25-.5ppm. the algea eater in the 42 gallon also died this morning... (2 separate algea eater in 2 separate tanks, but they were bought from the same petsmart) about the goldfish, 2 sits on the bottom, in a slightly tilted position, getting none responsive by the hour. 2 on the top level, look real skinny and breathing really hard, totally refused to eat. all non active with layer of white coat, blood streaks and little clamped top fin. i'm currently doing a 50% water change first thing in the morning, and a 20% at night, since they tends to seem really bad around the afternoons... i did that for 2 days now and been changing water every morning for 4 days... they've only been getting worse and worse...
i'm afraid i'll find a dead body tomorrow morning... 2 algea eaters are already too much for me...
so please let me know what i'm doing wrong? why are they all sick?
greatly appreciate any kind of help.
thanks.
okay... i really need some help...
i just went to check on my 42gallon tank... 1 fish can't breath... very slow but short, deep breaths. this fish was totally fine just 1 hour ago, she was even eatting a little bit...
i found her sucked to the end of the filter tube... i had to turn the filter off to release her... i believe she will not live more than 1 hour.
that's going to be 3 fish in one day...
anyone know what's going on? i'm starting to think it's not the nitrite...
i just went to check on my 42gallon tank... 1 fish can't breath... very slow but short, deep breaths. this fish was totally fine just 1 hour ago, she was even eatting a little bit...
i found her sucked to the end of the filter tube... i had to turn the filter off to release her... i believe she will not live more than 1 hour.
that's going to be 3 fish in one day...
anyone know what's going on? i'm starting to think it's not the nitrite...
OK _ I *think* I understand all of your other posts (correct me if I'm wrong though!)
I too think the salt killed the plecos. (BTW be very wary of plecos from Petsmart & make sure they are NOT common plecos. Petsmart does sell other varieties but the vast majority are common plecs. In general, common plecs do not do well with goldies (they tend to get very agressive after they are 7-8 inches or so - they can get 12-18inches so you have to plan ahead for that. Other varieties tend to be better in goldie tanks as a rule)
I am sorry to say I think that your fish picked up a bacterial infection due to the stress of cycling. A nitrite level of 5.0 has been known to kill fish. Do you have any meds around to put into the water?? (Like Maracyn/Maracyn II??) They might help. From the description of the red streaks/listless/non-eating behaviour - I really think it could be bacterial. It could also be a disease introduced by the pleco as he was not quarentined before being placed into the main tank.
Nitrite attcks the gills & the difficulty breathing could be due to gill damage.
WHat are your readings right now - esp nitrite?
When you clean your tank - do you disturb the filter media at all? (I'm trying to figure out why this tank has the readings it does).
I'm sorry for all of your losses!!! Many of us have been in your shoes & it's so heartbreaking!!!!
Jenn
I too think the salt killed the plecos. (BTW be very wary of plecos from Petsmart & make sure they are NOT common plecos. Petsmart does sell other varieties but the vast majority are common plecs. In general, common plecs do not do well with goldies (they tend to get very agressive after they are 7-8 inches or so - they can get 12-18inches so you have to plan ahead for that. Other varieties tend to be better in goldie tanks as a rule)
I am sorry to say I think that your fish picked up a bacterial infection due to the stress of cycling. A nitrite level of 5.0 has been known to kill fish. Do you have any meds around to put into the water?? (Like Maracyn/Maracyn II??) They might help. From the description of the red streaks/listless/non-eating behaviour - I really think it could be bacterial. It could also be a disease introduced by the pleco as he was not quarentined before being placed into the main tank.
Nitrite attcks the gills & the difficulty breathing could be due to gill damage.
WHat are your readings right now - esp nitrite?
When you clean your tank - do you disturb the filter media at all? (I'm trying to figure out why this tank has the readings it does).
I'm sorry for all of your losses!!! Many of us have been in your shoes & it's so heartbreaking!!!!
Jenn
ph is at 8.0, ammonia @ 0, nitrite @ .25 nitrate @ 0
i lightly squeeze out some poop when i clean the filter, but i only do that 1x a week...
the nitrite's been steadly @ .25ppm for the past 4 days... the 42gallon tank's fish did not start getting sick until nitrite was lowered... they were actually fine when it was higher...
Floaty's tank water has nothing to do with the high nitrite tank... he's in a separate tank before the nitrite heights...
i have some marcyn2... would it to too strong it'll kill them instantly? i dont want them to suffer, and i dont want them to die.
i lightly squeeze out some poop when i clean the filter, but i only do that 1x a week...
the nitrite's been steadly @ .25ppm for the past 4 days... the 42gallon tank's fish did not start getting sick until nitrite was lowered... they were actually fine when it was higher...
Floaty's tank water has nothing to do with the high nitrite tank... he's in a separate tank before the nitrite heights...
i have some marcyn2... would it to too strong it'll kill them instantly? i dont want them to suffer, and i dont want them to die.
should i take out the Matrix media before putting marcyn2 in the tanks? and are you saying to use marcny2 for both tanks?
and should i still try to feed them metromeds? for both tanks? while medicating them?
and should i still try to feed them metromeds? for both tanks? while medicating them?
You can feed medicated food & use the Maracyns.
It still is reasonable that the fish's immune system was compromised by the nitrite levels & then an opportunistic bacteria made them sick.
Does your matrix media have active charcol? (ie if it has charcol how long has it been in the tank??) You may need to remove it. Active charcol will filter the maracyn out of the water. (my charcol has been in for a while so I don't have to remove it anymore. It is a breeding ground for bacteria so I just leave it in there. )
If all fish have the red streaks/not eating - I would treat them all. How many are left? How big are they? Can they be housed temporari;y in the 10 gal? (It will be easier to medicate but can't hold too many fish)
Jenn
It still is reasonable that the fish's immune system was compromised by the nitrite levels & then an opportunistic bacteria made them sick.
Does your matrix media have active charcol? (ie if it has charcol how long has it been in the tank??) You may need to remove it. Active charcol will filter the maracyn out of the water. (my charcol has been in for a while so I don't have to remove it anymore. It is a breeding ground for bacteria so I just leave it in there. )
If all fish have the red streaks/not eating - I would treat them all. How many are left? How big are they? Can they be housed temporari;y in the 10 gal? (It will be easier to medicate but can't hold too many fish)
Jenn
I agree that I believe it is the nitrites killiing the gf. It doesn't take long to kill a fish at that level. Once the level comes down it takes time for the fish to overcome what they have been thru and sometimes they just can't. Either from it being too high for too long or because they are sick.
I would start the med food, don't know if I would use the Maracyn's though. If there is a way to keep the filter media intact and out of that tank then yes but if you can't then no. For good water quality is essential right now.
I am sorry that this is happening, but cycling is so hard to do with fish. I did it but it was a very hard thing to do.
I would start the med food, don't know if I would use the Maracyn's though. If there is a way to keep the filter media intact and out of that tank then yes but if you can't then no. For good water quality is essential right now.
I am sorry that this is happening, but cycling is so hard to do with fish. I did it but it was a very hard thing to do.
i put the marcyn 2 in the tanks... 2 of them seemed to be better right now... started to swim around and have some response when i'm looking at them... have a little more energy... but i see the fishies have a white blur over their eyes... that's what one of the algea eater's eyes looked like the day before he died.. know what that is?
basically my fish are wasting away... i seriously dont think they will make it for more than 2 more days if they dont started eating again...
i hope marcyn will work and i'll try to move them and recycle the tank with biospira...
yeah, cycling the tank is really hard and it's the first time i'm doing that, so it's way over my head...
but i guess i'll just try to get them to eat again and get their health back and worried about the cycling again?
i just can't stand seeing them suffering...
i'll post again tomorrow and hope all of them are still here.
basically my fish are wasting away... i seriously dont think they will make it for more than 2 more days if they dont started eating again...
i hope marcyn will work and i'll try to move them and recycle the tank with biospira...
yeah, cycling the tank is really hard and it's the first time i'm doing that, so it's way over my head...
but i guess i'll just try to get them to eat again and get their health back and worried about the cycling again?
i just can't stand seeing them suffering...
i'll post again tomorrow and hope all of them are still here.
You can try force feeding them. By holding them in one hand gently and putting the food in their mouth. This may help to get something in them.
yeah, i think i'll do that tomrrow morning if they still wouldn't eat...
one more thing, should i be getting medi-gold? or metro-meds? i'm ordering them tonight...
one more thing, should i be getting medi-gold? or metro-meds? i'm ordering them tonight...
Either one is ok. I think my fish prefer the Metromed taste, not that they are different. For I am pretty sure Rick uses the same progold to each. Go figure....................my fish are strange.
hi,
i put in maracyn2 last evening, and by bedtime... all the fish in the 42 gallon tank were much better, the fish that was suck towards filter tube could swim, not straight swim yet, still tilted towards one side, but breathing was back to normal... all started eating by last night... this morning, everyone was hungry, some still dont have the energy to eat too much... but it's a super good sign comparing to yesterday. i'm so relieved, might take a while to nurse them back to health... and get the cycling back on the right track... i hope i'm doing the right thing...
floaty is on maracyn2 also... he still haven't eatten anything, still have blood red streaks and can't flip to upright possition, that could be why he can't eat? but he's alive, and i can only hope he'll get better...
i have some quetsions though...
i oreded metro meds and jump start last night... i'll start them on that as soon as they arrive... i should only feed them metro meds and nothing else for 30days right? and then give them nothing but jump start?
about Maracyn2, should i still add salt while using maracyn2?
and do daily water changes and add Prime to keep nitrite low right?
thank you for all the help.
i put in maracyn2 last evening, and by bedtime... all the fish in the 42 gallon tank were much better, the fish that was suck towards filter tube could swim, not straight swim yet, still tilted towards one side, but breathing was back to normal... all started eating by last night... this morning, everyone was hungry, some still dont have the energy to eat too much... but it's a super good sign comparing to yesterday. i'm so relieved, might take a while to nurse them back to health... and get the cycling back on the right track... i hope i'm doing the right thing...
floaty is on maracyn2 also... he still haven't eatten anything, still have blood red streaks and can't flip to upright possition, that could be why he can't eat? but he's alive, and i can only hope he'll get better...
i have some quetsions though...
i oreded metro meds and jump start last night... i'll start them on that as soon as they arrive... i should only feed them metro meds and nothing else for 30days right? and then give them nothing but jump start?
about Maracyn2, should i still add salt while using maracyn2?
and do daily water changes and add Prime to keep nitrite low right?
thank you for all the help.
I am not sure what the "jump start" is.
With the Med food I would feed that only for at least 2 weeks then see how they are doing.
Floaty I would go the 30 days.
You can have salt with the Maracyn, watch the params though. Maracyn will mess with the cycle.
Yes always use Prime with each water change.
Hang in there you are doing good.
With the Med food I would feed that only for at least 2 weeks then see how they are doing.
Floaty I would go the 30 days.
You can have salt with the Maracyn, watch the params though. Maracyn will mess with the cycle.
Yes always use Prime with each water change.
Hang in there you are doing good.
i found jump start from the "food" section of goldfish connection... i thought it might be something that could help floaty...
thanks for all the help...
thanks for all the help...
OH ok, I have not heard of that or seen it. I will have to check it out.
I'm glad the Maracyn is helping!
How is the fish doing?
hi, i lost internet connection for a few days...
i've been using maracyn2 for both tank... after a night of maracyn2, most fish from the 42 gallon tank took a super good turn and started swimming and eatting again... a few of them started eating yesterday... they're healing, no more red streaks... some fins are still torn from the fin rot, but 2 of the fish's fins are already growing back... i've done water changes everyday for them, and put in more maracyn2 to cover what was lost... i'll do another 5 days of maracyn, to get rid of all the bacteria... one still got white edges on the tail...
Floaty is still floating, but i started feeding him by hand for a few days now... he's eatting, but his tummy is still red, and i'm still waiting for metromeds to arrive... maracyn2 helped him in someways... no more red streaks on tails but still got 2 bloody fin on his tummy...
so i'm super happy they are all alive and are in better shape than before...
Prime, salt and maracyn2 are what i'm using... and i'm keeping close eye on the water chemistry, i believe it's still cycling... since nitrite is still there at a constant .25ppm...
anyways, thanks for all the help and let me know if i should do any other things for my fish... i greatly appreciate all the advise.
thanks.
i've been using maracyn2 for both tank... after a night of maracyn2, most fish from the 42 gallon tank took a super good turn and started swimming and eatting again... a few of them started eating yesterday... they're healing, no more red streaks... some fins are still torn from the fin rot, but 2 of the fish's fins are already growing back... i've done water changes everyday for them, and put in more maracyn2 to cover what was lost... i'll do another 5 days of maracyn, to get rid of all the bacteria... one still got white edges on the tail...
Floaty is still floating, but i started feeding him by hand for a few days now... he's eatting, but his tummy is still red, and i'm still waiting for metromeds to arrive... maracyn2 helped him in someways... no more red streaks on tails but still got 2 bloody fin on his tummy...
so i'm super happy they are all alive and are in better shape than before...
Prime, salt and maracyn2 are what i'm using... and i'm keeping close eye on the water chemistry, i believe it's still cycling... since nitrite is still there at a constant .25ppm...
anyways, thanks for all the help and let me know if i should do any other things for my fish... i greatly appreciate all the advise.
thanks.
You are welcome. Sounds like you have things on track. I think you are doing great.
I am going to move your thread out of the 911 section into the normal diagnosis area. If things get life threatening and you need it moved back let us know.
I am going to move your thread out of the 911 section into the normal diagnosis area. If things get life threatening and you need it moved back let us know.
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