i have a feeder comet who i've had for about a month and a half now. i started off with 5 tiny goldfish in a 10 gallon tank (yes, i knew i'd need more space for them as they grew), one died immediately, the other ones were fine until a couple of weeks ago when 2 of them died in quick succession, then one more a little later after developing fin rot.

so now i have this one survivor, but he's definitely sick. he has fin rot too (no lesions or anything, his tail is just gone) and i was treating it with melafix. now he's swimming really hard in one place, hiding, gasping for air at the top of the tank, and not eating. his dorsal fin is down too. what can i do? is he just doomed due to his poor breeding? or can i nurse him back to health?

oh, the answers to the questions at the top of the forum:

*Test results: i don't have the exact results, but i had my water tested at an aquarium store with a good reputation and he said all the levels were fine.
*Tank size (How many Gals): 10
*How long has it been running?: a month and a half
* What is the name and size of the filter/s?: elite stingray submersible filter for up to 10 gallons
* How often do you change the water and how much? 25% every week or so
#How many fish in the tank and their size? 1, about 1 1/2 inches (he was the biggest of 5)
# What kind of water additives or conditioners? stresscoat & salt (1 tbsp per 5 gallons)
# Any medications added to the tank? melafix
# Add any new fish to the tank? no
# What do you feed your fish? wardley essentials flake (soaked)

the rest is covered above. thanks!

patchinko, Welcome to Koko's!

I can't give you much help personally, but I can tell you a few things. I know that someone more knowledgable will be along shortly to help.

If you plan on being into fishkeeping you need a test kit. You can get a pretty good master test at a pretty good price. We can help give you options for what we all use if you would like. If you care for the water, the water will care for the fish.

Next, if you plan on keeping goldfish you will need filtration for about double your tank size. Goldfish are messy little babies! Also, keep in mind that goldfish require up to 20 gallons of water per fish. You seem to know this already, so pat on the back for you! A smaller tank is fine in the beginning, but eventually you will have to get them a new home as they grow.

Finally, your fish probably doesn't have poor breeding. I have had little 29cent feeder goldfish grow and flourish into companions for years!

I hope we can help you with your issue. Keep us posted! I will keep my fins crossed for you and your little one.

Your fish is suffering from poor water conditions. When you had more than one fish in the 10 gallon, the water quality was probably suffering. Now that you only have one fish in the tank, you should be able to improve things for him.

What I would suggest is doing a big water change. Change about 50 - 60% of the water. Along with the water change, do a gravel vacuum (if you have gravel).

What type of filter media does your filter take and how do you maintain it?

I would increase the amount of salt to 1 teaspoon per gallon. Right now you have 6 teaspoons in the tank, so add another 4 teaspoons. When you do the water change, replace the salt that you have removed.

I would do several large water changes this week. Start with one asap, then wait a couple of days and do another. This should improve your fish. I would continue doing two large water changes per week. You should see an improvement with your fish with that routine. Match the temperature to the tank water and use a good water conditioner, such as Prime or Amquel +.

I hope this helps and please feel free to ask questions.

BTW, I have brought many very sickly fish back to health (purchased from appalling conditions), so it is never too late to try to save them. It is amazing how they can survive with good, clean water.

thank you both, i'll give your advice a try. i actually did a 50% water change the other day, right before i started using the melafix, but i'll try continuing them. do you think i should continue the melafix, or not?

my filter has carbon & zeolite in it, and of course mechanical filtration. i've been changing the carbon/zeolite cartridge every 2-3 weeks (more often when there were more fish), and i clean out the sponge in tank water when i do water changes.

do i really need a 20 gallon filter?

and once he's doing ok, should i reduce the salt level again?

it's funny, when there were more fish in the tank this one guy was really flourishing, swimming around like crazy with his dorsal fin up, and i swear he grew. it was only when it was down to 2 fish that he started doing badly.

ok, i've got water aging for a water change first thing tomorrow morning.

any suggestions for a test kit? from what research i've done online and on this board it seems like aquarium pharmaceuticals' is the best value.... is that correct?

and this leads to what might be a silly question but since i put salt in my water do i need to get a saltwater kit, or is the concentration not high enough to merit that?

and another silly question, that i haven't been able to find the answer to anywhere; when i do a water change/gravel vacuum, do i need to take the fish out of the tank? i'm sure it's traumatic to him either way but as long as i'm not, like, vacuuming him up (and i don't think my siphon has a strong enough pull to do that anyway) can i leave him in the tank? up til now i've been putting some tank water in a bowl and putting him in there while i change the water.

patchinko, I think we all pretty much agree that the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals master test kit is one of the best. It is really accurate and the price is really good. I personally use the master kit along with an additional kit by API that measures KH and GH and a phosphate kit by Nutrafin. I get eight different parameters measured and I ended up paying less that $35.00 And no, you don't need a saltwater kit. The saltwater kits are for saltwater tanks which have a much higher salinity. Most of us keep our salt level in the goldfish tanks at .1% which is 1 tsp./gallon at all times. There is a wonderful article on salting a goldfish tank on this site, you might want to give it a read.

As to your question about continuing with Melafix, if you are running your filter with carbon in it no. Carbon takes all the meds out of the water, so in reality you are just pouring it down the sink. There seem to be some mixed feelings about Melafix, but I have had good luck using it for fungus. If you want to keep using it go exactly by the bottle directions and get the carbon out of the filter. I would work on improving the water quality first tho, I would stop the Melafix.

When you vacuum your gravel you can leave the fish in the tank as long as they have room to swim. The most I would take out of a tank would be 1/2 - 2/3 of the water, depending on your tank decor. He needs to be able to swim around in the water that is left, don't leave him dry.

Do you really need a 20 gallon filter? I would say yes, at least at 20 gallon filter. For example my tank is a 29 gallon with a filter rated for an 80 that pumps 400 gallons of water per hour thru it. My tank turns over about 13.5 times per hour and I couldn't believe the difference in the water when I upgraded from the filter I had which was rated for a 29 gallon. Goldfish are messy and it will help reduce the amount of vacuuming and upkeep if the filter can suck up the nasties instead of letting them get in the gravel bed.

Hope that helped some.

yeah, i took the carbon cartridges out of the filter per the melafix instructions, but i thought making sure the water quality was good seemed more important right now after reading the responses on this forum, which is why i was asking.

i changed the water 50%, my fish seems maybe a SMIDGE more active, taking breaks from running in place to dart around the tank a little, but i'm not sure. he's still not eating. unfortunately i won't be able to afford the test kit or a better water conditioner for a couple of days, argh!

I would stay with 50% water changes daily until you get the test kit and post your readings. Then we can better tell what is going on with your tank. What kind of water conditioner are you planning on getting? Going to go with the API test kit? Keep us updated and we will do our very best to pull your fishy through!

The general rule of thumb is that your filter should turn the water over at least 10 times. So, for a 10 gallon tank it should be rated for 100 gph. Obviously with large fish or a high fish load, you would need more filtration, but IMO, if your filter is rated for 100 gph, and you only have one fish, then it should be adequate.

The most important thing is to keep the water quality up by water changes. They work wonders for goldfish. When you think about it, we can do home tests for all kinds of things in the water, but we can't test for bacterial loads. When harmful bacteria rises in the tank, it can create the right atmosphere for illness and death.

Weekly, I would rinse out the filter media in tank water. Just gently squeeze it out to remove the dirt and debris. If you can, I would replace the carbon/zeolite portion of your filter media with another sponge. I don't use carbon or zeolite in any of my filters, just sponges or filter floss. Carbon and zeolite isn't necessary and with extra sponges you provide more room for beneficial bacteria. The only time carbon is necessary is to remove medications or dye from the water.

You could try offering your fish something other than his regular fish food and see if he will eat that. A tiny bit or raw shrimp or fish sometimes works. If you have some frozen fish in the freezer, it is easy to shave a tiny piece off when it is frozen. If he doesn't eat it in an hour or so, I would remove it.

I hope this helps and please feel free to ask questions.

ok, i changed my tank water again and he's finally acting a little more normal. i can see that his fin is unclamping. not all the way, but it's sticking up a little. and he tried to eat the salt off of the bottom when i put it in, but he's still not going after his food. i'm vegetarian so i don't have any fish handy... i wonder if the grocery store will sell me one shrimp? i did try half a pea yesterday with no luck, maybe i'll try that again.

he's still swimming in place a lot but with more breaks to swim around the tank, not as frantically, and not at the top of the tank. it's kind of hard to tell if his weird swimming style is from not having a tail or from being sick.

i was planning on getting the api test, yes, mainly because people seem to like it and a co-worker just gave me a $5 off coupon for petsmart, which has the best price on it to begin with. for a conditioner i guess i'm going to get something that neutralizes ammonia (or detoxifies it or whatever), probably whatever my local independent fish store has (it's a small place with not a lot of products for sale). if anyone has any suggestions for a conditioner i'm all ears, looking around this post and this forum in general people seem to like prime and amquel +, right?

by the way i really appreciate you guys helping me out, especially since i'm sure it's frustrating that i don't have test results to post so you can really figure out what's going on.

Having used many conditioners and observed results, PRIME wins hands down in my book over AmQuel and AmQuel +. Prime has a nasty odor, but it works.

Dave

thanks dave!

i just wanted to report that he ate, for the first time in days. he wasn't really that enthused about it.... i dropped in a flake right in front of him and a couple of minutes later he found it on the floor and ate it. but still, i feel like things are more under control and i don't have to worry so much about him getting worse and dropping dead before i can get a test kit.

also, this time around almost no gunk came out of the gravel when i cleaned it, that's a first...

Yes, like Dave, I use Prime and I really like it. My fish have been much healthier since I started using Prime.

When you do your tests using a salicylate based ammonia test, and you are using Prime, be sure to take your reading right away after the alloted time has elapsed. Don't let the test sit because you can get false ammonia results.

That is great that your gravel is coming clean. That will make a huge difference in the health of your fish. Keep up your water changes

Also good news that he ate a bit. Very good news.

How does his tail look?

he has basically had no tail since shortly after it started looking frayed. it doesn't seem to have grown back at all yet. it still doesn't look like anything's wrong with it other than being gone though.

he's about the same as he was yesterday, except some fins have popped up on his bottom half that i almost forgot he had! he's still slow to eat, but eating. i'll do another water change tonight.

Does he still have the rays of the fin left?

i'm not sure if i know what you mean, but he really has no tail at all... just a little stump. i'll try to take a picture later.

and a new development... it's kind of hard to tell what's going on because he's so small, but he's got what looks like bruises near his mouth now. is that the post ammonia poisoning black spots, do you think? again, when i get home from work i'll try to take a picture.

also, when i did my last water change, he was back at the top gasping for a couple of minutes, but then he went back to normal (well as normal as he's been in a while). no more improvement with this water change but he hasn't gotten worse again either.

It would be really good to see a picture. I hope you can post one.

patchinko, I am glad to hear that your fishy is eating. If you are going to get your test kit at Petsmart, I think they will price match. Print off the listing on their website that says how much it is and if the store price is higher they will only charge the internet price. You save on shipping, plus you have that coupon for a bigger savings.

If you are wanting to feed you goldfish shrimp, look in the fish food section of your LFS or W^l-M^rt. They have a product out there made by Tetra called Baby Shrimp. Mine LOVE them! Thhey are sun dried complete shrimp and they work as a great suppliment and also a digestion support for my little one with constipation problems. I have read about several people using them here and everyone loves them. Great treat for your fishy. Shrimp from the grocery store would be too big and might have parasites or something that could make him .

Keep trying him on the peas! Squish the little heart out, throw away the shell, and pinch the heart up into the right size for him. They love peas and he will come around to them soon enough.

Hope to see pics soon. If it is the ammonia burns you are seeing they will clear up with proper water quality. I had a newly purchased goldie turn solid black when I got him home into good water. Then, in about a week, he was orange again.

Keep us posted, and keep up the good work!

ok, i took some pictures. the black on his face is subtle and i can't figure out how to focus at such close range, so i didn't get that, but here is his tail:

It sure is gone Hopefully with good water, you will see some growth starting soon. When it starts to regenerate, it can grow quite quickly.

I would think that the black is ammonia burns. This shows that the water quality has improved and the fish is healing.

Is he eating yet?

yeah, he's eating pretty normally now. phew!

That is a really good sign. Keep up the good work, the good water seems to be working

off topic for a minute, does anyone know what kind of plant that is (foreground, the ones in the back are fake).

more updates on the little fishki later, when i can test the water. at the moment we're in a holding pattern.

Its a type of fern but ive forgotten the name for it. I have some in my tropical tank and it likes to be in a flow.
I will try to find the name later today and post back if no one beats me to it

the black marks are all over his body now, so i got a slightly better picture of them:



does that seem like healing ammonia burns? it just looks like a color change, no lesions or raised areas or fuzziness or anything. he's eating normally now, going after food while it's still floating in the water instead of picking it up from the bottom like he was doing for a while. i went a day without a water change but then did one yesterday.

i'm still counting my pennies til tuesday or wednesday (figures this week would be the one week my paycheck doesn't get to me on time), but i WILL test the water and post results then. i guess the improvement i've seen since i started doing water changes does support the notion that the issue was water quality. so hopefully now all i need to do is get it perfect and keep it perfect!

another question, when i get a new filter (the gph on my current one is not high enough, that's probably where the problem started, eh?), should i put some of the sponge from the old filter into the new one to keep the good bacteria?

Yes, it looks like ammonia burns to me. They will disappear in a few weeks with good water, although they can take several months to disappear in some very bad cases. I bought a fish with bad ammonia burns in mid October and they are slowly disappearing, but are not gone yet. I have attached a picture of Petrie with the ammonia burns.

I would run both filters on the tank. I run two filter on almost all of my tanks. I would also seed the new filter with a bit of media from the old filter. That is a very good idea.

I am glad to hear that your fish is improving

ok, so can i just get another 10 gallon type filter to bring it up to at least 100 gph total?

my one concern is i have cats, so i need to have a top on my tank; that's why i have an internal filter. i can add another one, but it seems like that would take up an awful lot of space, and just be ugly (although i can live with ugly if it's what the fish needs).

oh and i don't have a hood, just a glass top.

my cats have actually seemingly lost all interest in the fish (unless i'm sitting at the table watching him, then they sit in front of the tank), but i'm not taking any chances!

i wish i'd taken a picture, i have one cat who eats ANYTHING and i just found out she loves frozen corn, and last night she was sitting on the table in front of the fish tank happily chowing down on corn....

ha, is there a time limit for editing posts on here? i can't find the edit button anymore....

anyway, i just realized i can cut the plastic strip at the back of my top and put an external filter there. that simplifies things a lot.

I would recommend a hang on the back type filter, running along with the internal filter. That would be great

I would have loved to see a picture of your cat eating corn I have four cats, and they don't bother with the aquariums anymore. They used to love to watch the fish, but I guess they are bored with it now.

ok, i finally have my computer back, anyway....

i got another filter (a penguin with a bio wheel) i've been testing my water regularly and i'm kind of confused about the results. my tank doesn't seemed to have cycled yet, after all this time. unfortunately i just cleaned up and so i can't find the piece of paper i was tracking results on, but here are the most recent ones, a couple of hours after a water change:

ammonia: 1.0
nitrites: 2.0
pH: 7.4
nitrates: 10

i finally named the fish, myron, cause he's black and gold! anyway he's acting normally, i think he's grown again, his tail is coming back but very slowly. the ammonia and nitrite levels seem to be going up very fast, any ideas as to why that might be? i'm feeding him 2 bites worth of flakes twice a day and sometimes about an eighth of a pea.

Yes, from those readings your tank is cycling. I would guess that it was never fully cycled when you were running the smaller filter. Perhaps the filter wasn't capable of utilizing all of the waste from the fish.

With the new filter running, your tank should cycle in about 4 - 6 weeks, maybe a bit faster because you have left the existing filter running.

You will see the ammonia reading drop to zero first, then you will see the nitrite reading drop to zero and you will see only a nitrate reading.

What you will have to do is keep up the water changes and try to keep the ammonia and nitrite down as close to 0 as you possibly can. If you think about it,
when you have a reading of 2.0 for nitrites and you do a 50% water change, you still have an ammonia reading of 1.0, so you really should be doing around 60% daily.

Do you still have salt in the tank?

It is good news that the little guys tail is growing back

You could try varying his diet with a good goldfish pellet (soaked before feeding) and different types of veggies.