It looks like I'm getting a new 55 or 60 gallon tank for in my home. I have a 20 gallon at school that is way over populated with goldfish.

I just realized that the water in my home goes through a water softener. Is that water safe to use in my aquarium? I have visions of having to haul water from another source to set up and do water changes.

Please let me know before tomorrow evening if possible. I think we're buying the tank and stand tomorrow.

Thanks in advance for the info.

Stormysgrandma

It is not a good idea to use water that has run through a softener, unless the specific species needed such.


In homes with water softeners, there is usually a source or more of water that is not run through the softener. A hose spigot or a utility sink are the two usuals. Do you have anything like that?


Post back soon.

Yes, I do, but the water straight from the well is extremely high in iron. I'm afraid it would make a mess everything.

I'm not sure what I will do now. I may have to haul water from school or my daughter's house. ugh!

I'm still learning but both of the houses where I have lived has had softend water. One was softend with sodium and the other is potassium. I have not had many if any problems. The amount that is in the water is usualy small. Just make sure to test your water regularly and watch the ph.

There are ways of dealing with this:


If I'm not mistaken there are special dechlorinators that can render iron into a solid form for removal by the filter. Hmmmm.

You could use the water straight from your tap and treat it with a buffer to replenish and KH and/or pH loss.

The whole idea is to supply a very stable chemistry for the fish. Stability is as important, if not more, then the water chemistry. Perhaps finding out what your softening substrate is would help decide wether or not you need to test for excessive sodium levels.


Its definitely doable....

I'm not sure what you mean by substrate. I do know that the softener uses salt to flush the system. I suppose I should test for sodium level. How do I do that? Is there a test kit or do I have to take a sample somewhere?

you may add crushed coral in your filter.that will make your water harder. you can also use it as a substrate if you cant put it in your filter

I would go with Toothless on this. We have water high in iron and it doesn't seem to matter to the fish. I use Prime as a water conditioner and it binds heavy metals (I don't know if that helps, but I my fish are very healthy when using it).

You need to test GH, KH and pH of your softened tap water and your current tank's water and compare the two. If the values are similar then you will be okay to use the softened water, if they are very different your fish will experience minor discomfort as they adapt to the new water. There are ways to change ph,KH, and GH if you don't want to discomfort the fish. check out the following article for ways to raise/lower pH, KH and GH

http://www.drhelm.com/aquarium/chemistry.html

Wow!!! What a great article!!!! That is the exact information I needed!!!

I obviously need to buy a really good test kit with all those things in it.

I'll buy it right away - when I buy my new tank. I will also do the water tests and determine what I need to add to my water or filter. I may take a little more time and effort at first, but I think I'll end up with a successful start to this aquarium if I do it.

Thanks so soooo much for the great information. I saved this as a pdf for future reference.

greycmb! You are great!!

I also agree with toothless on the iron and heavy metals thing. The charcoal will probably take care of that!

If the metals are taken out by the charcoal and I get the ph,gH etc, balanced, things should be ok.

I may need some advice what was most successful for others in raising or lowering these. I won't know until I do the tests tomorrow.

Wow!! You will never know how much I appreciate all of you great people!!!

I think that once you find out what your tapwaters chemistry is, straight from the tap, then you'll have a much clearer path on wich way to go for whatever level needs tweaking. My main concern is that excessive sodium levels can happen as time goes on. It may be a low amount in the beginning, but within a relatively short amount of time, the salinity and or other levels would increase much higher than thought.

Food for thought:

The way water softeners work is by ion exchange. It essentially removes the calcium and magnesium ions and replacing them with sodium ions. This is basically removing the waters capability of holding a steady pH in the range conducive for goldfish.

I think, if its possible, your going to want to use water from a source before it makes it through the water softener. Perhaps there is a spigot right near it??



Good luck!

Where the softener does replace the calcium and magnesium ( and a few other, much smaller things) with sodium ions, the tiny amount of sodium that is left in the water is not really too much for the fish - they will do OK with it. I think I sat down once and calculated out the ppm of the sodium - and for someone on a very restrictive sodium diet - yes, it is concerning. For a goldfish - a fish many run at .1% salt at all time - this is not really a large amount to be concerned with -as long as you know it is there and deal with it. It is too small an amount to be read with my salt test.

As far as reducing the carbonate buffer of the water - I really do not know it this happens. My softened water has a pH of 9.2 and a kH that is very high. That pH is going nowhere in that water. It is solid.

There is still alot in the water that can be going on - but in general, you may be OK with the softened water. Iron and extreme hardness (gH) can be detrimental to the fish's health - more detrimental that the sodium content of softened water.....

Hmmmmmmmm........

Toothless,

You are exactly right in how water softeners reduce hardness through ion exchange. However, it is not magnesium and calcium ions (measured as GH) that hold the pH steady. In aquariums it is the KH (or carbonate hardness/alkalinity/buffering capacity) that buffers the pH. It is a common misconception that GH affects pH, in reality KH (the carbonate ion) buffers pH.

As a side note KH is easily raised with the addition of baking soda, mixed in a glass of tank water, then added to the tank.

Ok, after re-reading up on water softeners and aquarium water chemistry, I'll have to retract my suggestion that a softener would adversely affect your goldfish. BUT, only if your pH winds up being stable after it has been drawn and sitting for a few days without the pH dropping more than .5. Tapwater chemistries, well water chemistries and the like are all different so, you just have to test vigilantly for a bit to be sure your water is stable enough for fish.



Thanks for clarification guys!

I found a test kit at Wally World that tests for ph,kh, and gh as well as all the other stuff. I'm buying one at a local Wally. The first story didn't have any - aquarium stock was minimal. We have 2 other Wallys. I'm going to check them.

I got my new tank - wow, it's cool! I'm going to haul water from school to start, and then play with testing my home's water and experiment with balancing it. I have a big plastic storage container that will be my lab.

We ordered an unusual stand - a work bench with a butcherblock top. It has drawers and two cubboards under it. It only cost $77.00 and holds up to 6,000 lbs.

Also, I went shopping for accessories - wow! I already spent $125 on air pump stuff, plants, gravel. I found some beautiful rocks at Petland. They sell them by the pound! You pick what you want and they weigh them. $13.00 for 5 pounds of amazing rocks - greens, ambers, and two that are cream with redish brown swirling through them. I've gotta learn to use my digital camera so I can send pics eventually.

My hubby does miniatures and has a bridge we would like to put in the tank. It is made of resin - the material they are using for toy soldiers, miniature buildings, etc. Is this safe for my fishies?

Thanks again for the help on the water thing - I'll keep you informed.

Resins are inert and fine for use in an aquarium. Just be sure that it doesnt have any holes a clumsy goldfish could get stuck into. Sharp edges should be filed down a bit too. Fancies are the clumsiest little fish but, commons and comets are usually pretty nimble.

I got the 55 gal. because the 60 had a chip right on the seam. I was afraid that it would cause a problem with water leaking. It's up and running with 2 goldies in it - one fantail, one cross-breed -I-don't-know-what. They seem to love it, and are doing just fine.

I'll keep you informed on the chemistry.

The filter that came in the kit is a Whisper 60. It's noisier than my TopFin20 on my 20 gallon tank. (Funny - the name is Whisper) You literally cannot hear my TopFin. If you didn't see the water movement you wouldn't know it was running. I'll see how the Whisper works and go from there. I have to buy ammonia rocks for the filter. It doesn't come with it. (Another trip to the pet store.) If anyone knows a cheap place to buy the carbon and ammonia rocks, please advise. Most of the pet supply stores in my area carry small containers which seem kind of pricey.

Since the tank is in our family room - with the TV - a quiet filter is important to us. I may have to change filters. If I do, I will run both of them for a while before I remove the Whisper. I can always keep it as a spare.

As soon as I can learn to use our new digital camera I'll try to post a picture of the new tank. I set up an account with photobucket, but I have no idea how to do it. I may need some help.

Give your Whisper a few weeks. It will quiet down after it runs for a while.

I couldn't believe how loud my Whisper was when I first bought it. It took a few weeks, but now I can barely hear it. I think the impeller has to get coated with a bit of gunk to quiet it down

I buy a lot of products from MOPS (mail order pet supplies). They are an aquarium supply specialist. The URL is:
http://www.mops.ca

They ship to both the U.S. and Canada and I have found them to be excellent.

Thanks for the advice on the Whisper and the website for supplies!

I notices that the filter is already a little less noisey today - but I'm hoping for it to quiet down more.

Between the filter and the air wand the top of the water is filled with little air bubbles. I'm assuming that this is a good thing.

The two fish that I transfered to the new tank are doing great. Their color even seems improved. Flip's orange spots and stripes are brighter and Ghost is more pink than white today. Amazing!

I can see now that an over-populated tank affected the fish more than I thought, even with frequent water changes.

I also discovered that I was being too meticulous in cleaning the 20 gal tank at school.

I was wiping the gunk off of the areas where the water spills from the filter into the tank. I was also cleaning out gunk that was floating around in the filter reservoirs. OOPS! That's the good stuff!! And I thought I was doing the right thing

Now I'm only cleaning what can be seen, like algae on the glass. The chemistry in the tank is starting to stablize - Ammonia - 0 Nitrites - 0 Nitrates dropped from 50 to 40 to 30 in 3 days with no water change - whew!! Water change tomorrow - probably 30%

I'm wondering how many other people are messing up the cycle in the tank without realizing it.

Now I know why I have was never successful with aquariums years ago!!

I love this web site!!! Thank you Koko!!!

I am glad things are going so well Thanks for the update, it is great to hear