ph 7.0, kh less than 80mg/l, gh 160 mg/l
ammonia, nitrite 0
nitrate i think 40, aquarium pharmaceuticals color chart is difficult to distinguish 40, 80, etc.

20 gal tank, 9 months

fluval 104 canister filter

I change the water once a month. Fluval filter siphons the water all the time.

2 fantail goldfish, fairly big

A while back I posted a message that one of my goldfish has popeye. I have treated him w/melafix, epsom salt, maracyn, and metromed w/no change or improvement. He has had this popeye for over a month and a half. The eye has not gotten worse nor better. Could it be possible that this will go away on its own? I also added a heater to the tank to help but in less than 24 hours the temp has gone from 70 to 80. The fish do not seem stressed out but should I turn off the heater for now. I live in Canada and the temp outside is -10. I do not want to stress the fish out w/constant temp changes. Is 100 watt heater too much for 20 gals?

thanks,

karla

Hi Karla, sorry to hear the poor fish has ongoing problems.

I would keep the temp at 80F, a constant temp of this should help the eye. Next I would get the nitrates down to 10-20. I know that test is hard to read, I struggle sometimes as well.

Now I see that you have used alot of meds with this, is there anything in there now?

If not I would run a treatment of Maracyn 2, along with some epsom salts. (there is no salt in the tank right?)
Epsom salts are dosed differently so you should use 1/8 tsp per 5 gal of water. Don't add anymore unless you do a water change.

Popeye is treated very much like Dropsy, which I am very familar with. However I don't know if the eye will stay that way, I haven't heard that it does. Other members who have treated it say the eye goes back to normal.
Bacterial infections can often cause this, so I would also recommend a good antibotic food. Feed that for 14 days straight.

Oh a side note, you are aware to remove the carbon when treating with a medicine right?

Also doing more water changes than once a month are in order. That will help to keep those nitrates under control.

hi, there are no meds in their tank now, therefore i will try maracyn 2 w/epsom salt and should i try 14 days of metromed? I contacted Rick w/regards to metromed and he said while the fish are taking metromed it is also a good idea to feed peas before bedtime.
I took the carbon out already and rinsed all the filter media. I stopped medicating the fish about 3 weeks ago to give them a break.

thanks,

karla

Karla that sounds great. Rick is a very good source of information!!!

hi, i cannot figure out whether i am not feeding enough metromed pellets or too much because it takes my goldfish 5 minutes to eat just one pellet, so i end up feeding him 6-7 which takes about half an hour to eat. Am i feeding enough? How do i know if he is immune to metromed now?
Lastly, this may be a silly question, i have a 20 gallon tank, I want to treat my fish w/maracyn 2, to do this would mean 2 tablets per 10 gal of water the first day and then 1 tablet per 10 gallons of water for the remaining 4 days. My problem is a 20 gallon tank does not have 20 gallons of water, so do i still put 2 tablets per 10 gallons the first day and 1 tablet per 10 gallons for the next 4 days or do i put less medication?


karla

Karla with the food, how big is your fish? I will try to gage by that how much he eats.

For the meds, in the 20 gal tank you are meaning that with the gravel and decorations it doesn't hold 20 gals of water right?
Do you know how much is actually in there or can you gage?
But concerning this question, I have gone by the tank size. Meaning for the 20 gal tank. If you are off by a few gallons it hopefully isn't going to make a big difference. If you are off by let's say 5-7 gals then you could have a problem.

thank you for responding quickly, i appreciate it. It is hard to tell their size because right now they won't sit still, everytime i go near their tank they think it is time to eat so they get excited, but i'd say the bigger of the 2 is fully grown. I believe he is over 5 inches since he is a bit bigger than my hand, 5 inches w/his tail. The other one w/the popeye is about an inch smaller w/his tail.

As for the maracyn treatment, i just did a water change today, I'm guessing without the ornaments/plants and gravel, the water may only be 3 gallons less than 20 gallons. So I'm guessing 17 gallons.

karla

Ok for the Maracyn I would treat for the whole 20 gals. If it is 17 that shouldn't hurt anything.

With the food, the larger fish (5+inches) should be eating at least 7-8 pellets twice a day. If he is taking longer you could try soaking them a bit, however with medicated food this is not recommended for it dilutes the meds.
What I think would be better is 3 time a day feedings. Making sure each fish gets what he should.

thanks for clearing this up for me, i will be giving them 6-8 pellets twice daily and peas before bedtime. 6-7 pellets for the little guy and 7-8 for the bigger one. Also thanks again for your prompt reply regarding the maracyn 2 treatment, i will start it right away and let you know in the next few days how everything turns out.

karla

Karla when feeding medicated food the fish can't have any other food. No peas while on antibotics. Only that food, you need to get as much meds in them as possible, so hold off on the peas until they are done with the treatment.

thank you again sooooo much! It was weird but yesterday i started treating the fish with metromed and this morning I was about to do a water test before i started on the maracyn 2 treatment to be sure that everything is ok, especially with the nitrates and Butterball's eye is not as big as before. It already looks a lot better. Thank you for all your help, i am now very confident that his eye will make a full recovery.
Just to be sure, is it still necessary to use the maracyn 2 treatment even though Butterball is showing signs of improvement with the temp at 78-80, the epsom salt and metromed? Sorry to keep holding off on maracyn 2 but i hate adding meds to my tank unless absolutely necessary.

karla

Karla you could wait a few days and see. I too hate using the meds in the water.
If in a few days the eye is still not progressing then continue the current treatment and add the maracyn then.

hi, laurie i just have a question regarding feeding metromed to the fish. my big guy is roughly 5 inches, you advised me to feed him at least 7-8 pellets twice daily. Would a couple of pellets more hurt him? It is just that when i try to feed Butterball(the little guy), sometimes my big guy steals butterball's food. I am afraid to overdose the big guy, plus i know these fish are always looking for food but i feel like i am not feeding them as much as they're use to. Before the little guy developed popeye i fed them floating pellets and the big guy was able to gobble up 4 at one time.


karla

Karla no more isn't going to hurt him, may actually be good for him. I just didn't want you to "under" feed him the medicine. (and this is only a gage not an exact).
If he will eat more, go for it.

thanks for all your help.


karla

You are welcome. Just wanted to let you know I will be away this weekend if you are having problems, know I am not abandoning you. I will check on your fishy Monday. If you have any problems the others will be around to help out. Good luck with him.

hi, metromed treatment ending on wednesday. First couple of days of treatment with metromed showed signs of improvement, but around the 5th or 6th day there has been no further improvement, therefore on friday i added maracyn 2. Both treatments will be ending this wednesday, last maracyn 2 treatment will be on tuesday but water change on wednesday. There is still no improvement. The water has been fairly good throughout the treatment, with the exception of nitrates which have remained 40 or above. I have been doing water changes almost every second day to try to bring the nitrates down w/no change. I did a water change today, before adding another treatment of maracyn 2. I will be adding the epsom salt soon to replace what was taken out. What i cannot figure out is after this water change the nitrite level, which have been zero for most of the treatment including yesterday, is at 0.25. ammonia 0, ph 6.5 (i added buff-it-up), nitrates still hard to tell but at least 40. the fish are looking for food but seem to be breathing rapidly, i do not want to day another water change because it will be hard to replace the medication i take out. I have Amquel plus and Nova Aqua plus. Would these be safe to use for now even though i used aqua plus to the new water?


karla

hi, around mid january, my gf's left eye appeared bigger than the right. I assumed it was popeye since i did not know what else it could be. The day before he developed popeye the filter had stopped working, therefore w/no aeration, one gf was gasping for air at the surface while the other gf(the one that has popeye) lay upside down, breathing rapidly. Finally, the next day i got the filter fixed, but as soon as it started working, the water flow was so strong it knocked my little guy around the tank. Anyway, we fixed that problem only to find that my little guy had one eye bigger than the other. Water chemistry was fine and has not been too bad since.

Since mid january i have treated the tank w/epsom salt (1//8tsp per 5 gal), melafix, maracyn, metrommed(two full 14 day treatments), heat (78-80), and maracyn 2 w/very little change.

This is why i am confused and do not know whether this is popeye or an injury resulting from being thrown around the tank by the water flow several months back. Since it has been 3 months, should the eye not have gotten worse or popped out(knock on wood this never happens) it seems to have remained the same size.

I would like to send a picture but i have to figure out how to send one, until then i can only describe it as swelling on the upper lid. Looking directly at him, you cannot really see any swelling, only when he is turned so that you can see his left do you see swelling, and the swelling is not around his eye like a bagel.

I will try another treatment of maracyn 2 w/heat and epsom salt but if it still does not seem to do much, i may just have to give my gfs a rest.

I just want to know if a fish can have popeye last this long without it getting worse? And if it is best to leave him alone?


thanks


karla

ammonia, nitrite 0
ph 7.0
nitrate I cannot get it lower than 40, i've tried.

Karla have you tested your tap water for everything? Often they are full of nitrates and such.

You can go to photobucket and post a pic there, then link us.

The bagelish swelling can be indicitive to dropsy.

Might be a good idea to go over briefly your tank, how many fish and what they are in there.

hi, i do not think he has dropsy because he has had this problem for 3 months w/no other symptoms. no scales sticking out like a pinecone, he has not been lethargic. he is very active and has a good appetite. the eye has remained pretty much the same throughout treatments. The big white guy is a fantail and the one w/a swollen eye is an oranda. I even left him alone for 3 weeks before i did another treatment and his eye did not get worse throughout the 3 weeks.

I did a water change yesterday and added NovaAqua plus and Amquel plus to help w/nitrates also because i cannot add aquarium salt yet so i know that nova aqua will help w/the electrolytes, i just need to add a little epsom salt for what was taken out.

I've seen a picture of popeye on goldfish from this site and his eye does not look like that. It is more like a crescent moon. Sorry i do not have a picture, it may take me a few days.

Thanks for all your help, i feel like a nuisance since it has been 3 months, i'm just completely confused. My betta had popeye once and i treated him w/melafix and pimafix and his eye returned back to normal after 2 treatments, but Butterball's problem is something else.


I appreciate your help Laurie, I just need to know if popeye can remain the same for so long w/out getting worse. Is it possible that his eye may have been injured somehow? Right now he is angry w/me because he wants more food. Silly fish!

Oh and i do feed them a variety of foods, mainly nutrafin max floating pellets(i soak them for 10 minutes), hbh 8 veggie flakes, peas, spirulina fed frozen brine shrimp, oranges, Wardley SpectraMax w/Power Burst goldfish flakes. I soak both pellets and flakes before feeding.

Sorry for the long message.

karla

Karla forgive me if we have covered this, but have you had him on a medicated food?
If not this is the next step. If you have, what was it and how long has he been on it?

I am not a popeye expert. So I really can't answer that question. But it really doesn't sound like true popeye since it is not the eye ball itself.

he was given 2 full 14 day treatment of metromed. i will try to send a picture today.

i tested the water yesterday, ammonia and nitrite 0, ph 7.0, i still have to test kh and gh. nitrates seemed to have gone down but not by much, looks to be 40 or a little less, but not 20.

karla

Hmmm, the water looks good. Other than what you are doing I am at a loss. How many times did you run Maracyn?

hi, i could not take great pictures because he kept swimming fast, it was breakfast time so he and the other guy were excited.

maracyn-one treatment and maracyn 2-one treatment.

karla

i do not know is it is hard to tell but his upper eye lid is a bit swollen, like he hit himself on something and the swelling cannot go down.


karla

karla,

Is it just one eye, or both? It is really hard to tell on these pics. Any way you can get bigger pics for this?


And does it always look as if it's 'popped', or just when he seems to be looking in certain directions? Sometimes when the eye is turned one way or the other it could look as if he has pop eye. Reason I bring this up is because you mention the "half moon" effect.

Laura is right, with those pics it is hard to tell. And I am sure he wasn't coroperating much.

Really if he is acting ok and everything else is fine, I would just continue to watch it. The eye itself looks good, so that is a positive.

his right eye is perfect but the upper part of his left eye or eye lid is swollen. The bottom part of his eye is fine. From the front you can barely see a difference but when he turns to the left there is a difference.

I will keep checking up on it daily. And i will try to get a better picture next time.


thank you for all the help.


karla