i am going to apologise now for the long post. I have had to move the fish around and they are now in 4 differet tanks

1) last week the 40gallon tank seemed to have white spot, only coco had started to get red blotches on his/her tail. i posted on here but noone knew what it was. it got worse, but then my mum said it seemed to be getting better as his tail didnt have any of the red on it anymore. the tank was only salted to 0.1% because there was a hillstream loach in there.
i returned from uni today and found that coco's scales seemed to be sticking out. i have had a fish with dropsy before so that was my first thought, but the fish that i had before its scales were sticking more, and looked pinconed. coco ate this morning and pooped before i moved him to his own 20 gallon tank.
Any ideas on how to treat?? could it be an internal parasite??

2) i have moved the loaches in to a 12gallon tank on their own so that they can be treated separately as i know some medications cant be used on them. the only real problem is the one that came from my friends high nitrite tank because he has a red mark on his mouth, and i am worried it can turn into a mouth fingus like Half Mouths did.

3) The shubunkin is in a bowl ( i know its too small, but its all i had left, all other tanks are in use). he has a very red tail, and red patches on his body. he was scratching, so i thought it was a parasite. he ate this morning with the others. i have treated as i dont know what the best course of action would be

4) the other remaining fish are in the 40gallon tank, they have no signs of parasites, ie white spot, but i was wondering if i should still does the tank with 0.3% salt to ensure any parasite that might be in there is eradicated??

sorry for such the long post. hope someone can help. claire

Claire I am not sure if I am following right.
All these fish were in one tank?
And do they have white spots again?

I think there might be a problem with answering all these problems in one thread. On the opposite side of that if they were all in the same tank you can treat all the gf in the same tank, no need to isolate them.
As for the loaches I don't know enough about them to give you any advice. It may be best to start their own thread in the tropical section. That is if you are going to treat them seperatly from the gf.

Also we are going to need answers to all the questions above.

ok, thanks. i dont really want coco in with the others because they were bothering him. they no longer have the white spots, just coco and the shubunkin are still sick.
in the 40g there was Coco 9yr old oranda, 1 fantail, 1 ryukin , 1 baby oranda and a hill stream loach.
i had the shubunkin in the 40gallon at first, rescued from a friends house, but then i moved it to the 20 gallon were there was weather loaches. the shubunkin now has a red tail and red patches on its body.

should i still salt the 40gallon incase there is some parasite in there??

Test Results for the Following: for the 40 Gallon Tank
Ammonia Level? 0
Nitrite Level? 0
Nitrate level? 25
Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? 6.8, KH3, GH10
Ph Level out of the Tap?
Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? 40 gallons, 1 month
What is the name and size of the filter/s? Fluval 4 Plus
How often do you change the water and how much? once a week, every other week gravel vac
How many fish in the tank and their size? there was 4 fancies, 1 loach
What kind of water additives or conditioners? dechlorinator
Any medications added to the tank? not at present
Add any new fish to the tank? only my friends shubunkin that came from a high nitrite tank
What do you feed your fish? Flakes
Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt",
bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
Any unusual behavior like staying
at the bottom, not eating, ect..? did have 'grains of salt' but seems to have cleared up, one fish Coco his scales are sticking out, now seems to have one eye also sticking out more ad his tail is a mess, the shubunkin has a red tail and red patches on his body.

I could put the shubunkin in the 40gallon with the others, i just didnt want them catching anything.

It sounds like coco is in the early stages of dropsy and you need to raise the temp to 80f and add epsom salt at 1/8th of a teaspoon to 3 gallons uk.
If the main tank is ok then dont worry about salting it. You have to do more water changes in a week and each time do a gravel vac. For now do 40% twice a week and this should help keep the water clean so the loaches mouth can heal.
The shubunkin sounds like it has a bacterial disease, so get that one a large container from somewhere like homebase or even asda do large plastic boxes that would do. Add salt at .2% and give him a small filter if you can or an airstone and pump and do 50% water changes on it each day.

the only salt that i have is dr wellfishes salt, can i use that??

i can move the loaches back to the main tank then?? and put the shubunkin in the 12G tank and treat him in there?? would that be better??

thank you

Yes that sounds good.

so i can use the dr wellfishes salt for coco, the one with dropsy?? is it the same does as Epsom salt??

The epsom draws the fluid from the fish whereas the salt doesnt.
It really depends on how far advanced the disease is whether or not anything will work but I would recommend the epsom if you can find it.

i have just been out and got Epsom Salts, they are the same as humans would use arent they??

do i only does 1/8 teaspoon per 3gallons once?? so its about 7/8 teaspoon per 20 gallons??

Im not sure as i havent used it before, wait for someone to tell you.

noone has replied, should i post about the epsom salt some where else??i have put the heater into the tank now, gradually increasing the temp hourly.

For the espom salt it is the same as "humans" use, so what you got should be ok.

The dosing is 1/8tsp per 5 gal, but that is US gals. Sandy has let us know what is going on.
Since I am not 100% positive what the US vs UK difference is, I would still do the 1/8 tsp per your 3 gals. It should be fine. Like I was telling Sandy, the alternate is the fish may die unless you do something.
I would risk it.

Good luck.

Thanks Laurie

I work it out to be just under a teaspoon for a 20 gallon tank. You only need to do this once but if you change any water remember to add it back in.

thanks to both of you, i have added the epsom salt last night, but had to change some of the water today as the nitrites had risen. so added back what i had taken out. i have put an extra filter in which should help.

Sounds good how is the fish doing?

he seemed to be doing better when i was at home, but i have had to come back to uni, and when i rang last night my mum said he seemed to have got a bit bloated again. but his eyes arent sticking out as much. i dont want to build up my hope though as i know the recovery is very slim. ill keep you informed of what happens. fingers crossed though.

Hope he gets better for you Claire.

thank you, so do i, hes nearly 10!! heres hoping

Claire how is the fish doing?

hi Laurie, i havent been able to go home this weekend, but my mum has been doing a great job looking after him. she changed half the water again yesterday and added back the salt. he has semmed to be doing better then looks a bit worse, but at the moment my mum said he looks a little better, defo not worse.

i said she could give him a few flakes soaked in water, and he gobbled them up, is this a good sign?? his scales are still slightly sticking out, but not as much.

His eating is a good sign, he needs nutrition to keep up his immune system.

Keep us posted.

ive told my mum to feed him every other day for now, see how he goes. as water can be deceptive from the top he looks more pineconed than from the side, but if hes eating, and gobbling it up at that, it must be good.

ill keep you posted. thanks for your help and being concerned

You are welcome, hopefully with him starting to eat will continue to be a good sign.

Claire how is it going?

hi sorry i didnt reply sooner, i came home on saturday night, coco looked alot worse, he was really bloated, and his scales were sticking out more and he had pop eye again. on sunday morning i added some more epsom salt coz my mum hadnt added back what she took out the other day. he seems a little better today, still swimming around not sitting still, i fed him a few flakes just before and i have never seen a fish gobble up their food like he did!! his eye doesnt seem to be sticking out as much either.

i was at my local lfs and they mentioned something about bloodworm being good and helping their immune system, i havent really used it before, but i got some in a gel form and fed it to the main tank and they loved it. would it be beneficial to feed some to coco or not??

Claire can you update us on what treatments you are doing for him again? Thanks, things get hectic around here and it is good to have updated info right in front of us.
Also the params of the tank.

I myself don't feed bloodworm, too gross for me.
I know others do, so there shouldn't be a problem with it.

hi yer sure, one sec get test kit out...

nitrates 25 mg/l
nitrites 2mg/l (doing water changes every other day, still wont come down)
PH 6.4
Amonia 0
Tank is 20 UK gallons, only Coco in
2 filters running, fluval 2 and a cascade 250.
edit: and an air pump with air curtain

tank is heated to just under 80f, i have it covered when people are in the room but i have been uncovering when we have been out and at night.
there is about 1 and 1/4 teaspoon of epsom salt in the tank, i have added some bacteria control to see if that helped, sorry i didnt ask first but i added it on sat night, forgot to say.

he is eating flakes that have been pre soaked in tank water first and he is eating the 4 flakes that i put in. no problems there!! greedy fish. only feeding every other day though.

pooping ok. swimming around in the tank fine, not sitting on the bottom.

i know the bloodworm freaked me out when i put it in the main tank, but the fish loved it!! it was in a gel not live, so not as gross. (if you can get it live)

hope this is ok for you. thanks

Claire the water is still really bad, that is adding to his problem if not causing it.

First thing I recommend is testing the tap and see if all is perfect there or if you are fighting as up hill battle. Post those for us.

Next the water changes every other day aren't cutting it, you'll need to bump those up.
However with a low ph of 6.4 you need to make sure what is coming from the tap is the same. If not, then test for GH and KH (this will tell us what if any needs to be done to buffer the ph........could be a major problem).

I would do a 30% change and retest an hour later and post back.

the water in the tap tests fine, and i dont have the problem in the other tank which uses the same water.


i dont think it caused it because he had the dropsy in the main tank which tests fine. ill do the water change now and tomo, but i go back to uni tomo night. the reason for changing the water every other day is cause my mum can only do it every other day.

i dont know why the water is bad, i added the other filter to help, ill see if i swap the cascade for another fluval 2 plus that i have see if that helps.

ph tests the same from the tap.

if i only do a 30% water change how much salt am i to add back?

The water is your major problem, without getting it under control he won't last much longer.
Since your mom can't do it but every other day, you may have to devote a whole day to it yourself. Since the ph is the same in the tap as the tank, then you can do a larger change. Once the 30% is done wait an hour retest, if you are still having an issue do it again same route...........water change, wait an hour retest and so on.
It may take several changes to get it down.
While doing this you have to test all the levels make sure they are staying where they need to.

As for the salt, how much is in there now? You are going to have to calculate it out. I recommend using a calculator and writing things down.

im sorry about the water, i have done 30% change, but i have to go out now, its my sisters bday we are going for a meal. i will check water as soon as i get back and i will repost then,

im not here to do the water changes as i will away at uni from tomo night and i dont know when i can get back. i dont live at home.

there was 1 1/4 teaspoon of salt in.

When you get home and check if the levels are still high I would do a 50% water change.
Then add back 2 tsps of salt this will give you 0.1%. (you'lll have a little more than that but in actuallity it should'nt be a big deal it is so small that it won't matter).
An hour after that test and if it is still high do another 50% change and add back 1tsp salt. (this should keep you at the 0.1% salt concentration).
It is best that you learn to calculate how much salt to do it on your own.

1 tsp per gallon is 0.1% concentration. You replace what you change out with water.

With being there until tomorrow you have a chance to get it right before you go and then your mom can maintain it.

To be honest, without someone who is able to do this during the week, chances are he isn't going to make it.

hi i just got back and the nitrites have come down. my mum can do the water on wed night this week and thursday. i have been preparing myself for the worst, i would rather be here but i have a lot of uni work and i work were i live at uni so i have to go back.

i did know the salt percentages, i just wasnt sure how much i could add, and i couldnt figure out how much if i changed 30%.

im trying best i can, im goig to do a 50% water change again in a min,

thanks for your help

Claire you are welcome I am hoping for the best for you.

just a quick update, i did 2 water changes today, didnt want to stress him out too much, the nitrites are bearly showing on my test now, probs about 0.2, so i have asked my mum to do a water change tomo in the hopes that that will get rid of the rest.

he doesnt look as swollen today, but that could just be me!

Claire I am hoping that works, keep us posted.

will do. im back at uni now, but i speak to my mum every day so will keep you up dated on progress.
thanks

Sounds good, I am going to leave your thread here in the 911 section even though we don't see daily involvment. I know with you off at school the situation is still vital.

thanks for leaving it in here, i appreciate that. i spoke to my mum yesterday and she said that she had do another water change. he doesnt seem as 'puffy' though, but my mum did notice two scales in the bottom of the tank.

im going home on monday night, but ill keep you updated til then.

thanks

Claire can she test the water or no?

hi yes she has been testing the water and its been ok, ive still asked her to do water changes every other day, just to keep on top of it. im going home tonight.

I hope all is better when you get there. Let us know.

just got back and done a water change, added back salt. he seems more bloated, but my mum fed him an he ate and i seen him poop normal. i guess its just time will tell now, its been over 3 weeks.

Yeah it may take a lot longer this way with you and your mom doing what you can do. But as you said only time will tell.

He is a fighter that is for sure.

it is harder over here- no meds etc, no vets that i know of will treat fish. the only thing really is salt, heat and hope.
he always has been a fighter an never really been ill. but i hope he doesnt give up, ive got my fingers crossed. the nitrites tested fine this morning, ive been to a funeral today so only just got back.

thanks for all your help.

Claire I am sorry about the funeral.

You are right the UK don't have much, from what I have learned here. Keep fighting and we'll continue to be here.
How is he doing though?

hes doing ok i think, still eating and swimming about, he seems to get a bit more puffy then it eases off. but i have to go back to uni today, my mum will continue to look after him whilst i am away.

claire

Well hopefully he will make it. Claire I will continue to leave your thread in the 911 section. That way it doesn't get pushed so far down in the sections. I know you can only post while home and such, just hang in there.

i will, thanks for leaving it here, i appreciate you doing that. i will keep you informed of progress etc as and when.

Claire I just wanted you to know I will be gone most of the weekend, so if you don't see my answer anything if you have a problem that is why. I hope that all goes well.