I got a 5 gallon Eclipse for Christmas, that I am cycling. I am having trouble with the ammonia. It keeps going up, quickly. I checked it 2 hours before dinner, and there were no signs of ammonia. About 4 or 5 hours later, the ammonia was at .25! It keeps doing this, and I keep doing 25% water changes, and adding this ammonia clear to the water. I have also added that white gravel stuff, I think it is carbon. It is suppose to help absorb ammonia.

I have had this tank running for a little over 3 weeks now. When starting it up, I added some filter floss from some of the tanks at work. I was told this should give me a quick cycle. I keep testing the water, but never see any nitrites. My ammonia is staying around .25, and my nitrates are about 25. Don't you have to go through a cycle to get nitrates? Did I miss the quick spike of nitrites when I put the floss in?. I have taken the floss out. I have also added about 7 little tiny baby mollies and palates to the tank. I already had a small quarter size flounder, and 3 ghost shrimp in there. One shrimp just died. So please give me some info on what I am doing wrong, and what is going on.

Hi,

I can think of several scenarios where your parameters may occur, so if you could give a little more info, we may be able to crack this one

Could you find out exactly what ammonia clear is? (Anyone on the site?)
Also what exactly is the white gravel? Could it be zeolite?
Could you test your tap water for ammonia and nitrates, just to make sure.
What sort of filter are you running?

Sorry for the long list of questions, but I guess it could be:
a) filtration not up to the task
b) additives messing up the cycle
c) additives stopping your cycle
d) something already in your tap water

There may be other possibilities I've missed, but I'm sure others on the site will be able to pick them up.

Do post back soon.

Slugger

I think Slugger has asked some good questions.....

Lets see if we can sort this out foryou...

First, realize that you have a constant source of ammonia - the little fish and shrimp that are in the tank are eating and making waste. That waste is ammonia. Any waste food or poo that goes into the gravel will also break down into ammonia.

To process this ammonia in a "cycle" you need two different types of beneficial bacteria to live in your tank. The first type processes the ammonia into nitrite, the second makes the nitrite into nitrate.

These bacteria will "appear" from the environment after a time - 1 week to 10 weeks. But they will not take up residence in a tank where they cannot find "food" and warmth. You have supplied the warmth. But there is a question as to the "food".....

The white chips you are refering to are most likely zeolite or ammonchips. Carbon is black. Zeolite is a chemical compound that binds to ammonia, making a new chemical compound in the process. This new chemical compound essentially removes the ammonia from the water by making it into something else. It is a great product EXCEPT, by binding this ammonia and changing it, it also removes it from the bacteria's dinner plate. They cannot use it. So they cannot grow.

Zeolite can only hold so much ammonia. After a bit, it will no longer be able to bind up any ammonia, and the ammonia will be available again in the tank - to bother the fish/shrimp and for the beneficial bacteria to "eat".

YOu added floss from an established tank to your filters. This is GREAT! It was most likely nicely colonateed with beneficial bacteria. But if your zeolite removed all the ammonia before the bacteria could get it, chances are the bacteria did not grow a nice colony. It may have died out all together. Depending on what platform you have left in that filter (an Eclipse has a biowheel and a cartridge, right?) you may still have some bacteria in the tank, just very little. Biowheels take a looooong time to colonize - longer than many other types of media. They are great platforms, though. For a lightly stocked tropical tank, an Eclipse filter/wheel is a great set up and will need little or no supplementation to cycle well.

When you removed the floss, you may have removed the majority of the benficial bacteria - depending on how long you had it in, how much zeolite was there, etc. It is questionable as to how much beneficial bacteria managed to move over and colonate the bio-wheel. It typically takes 2-4 weeks to properly colonate a filter media from one to another.

The nitrates you are seeing could have come from several places other than a cycle. First, your tap water may have nitrates in it. Many waters do. You may wish to test the tap water.

Second, since you seeded your filter nicely with the floss, it is entirely possible that you had a small, but good cycle going for a time - and it produced the nitrate. YOu may even have a small cycle still going - just not a robust enough colony of bacteria to process ALL the ammonia the fish/shrimp produce.

Finally, the ammonia clear is most likely a water additive much on the order of Amquel or Prime, I am assuming. I cannot find any information on line about exactly what is in it. Look on the package. Most water conditioners will bind the ammonia into a compound that DOES leave it available for the beneficial bacteria to process. That type of conditioner is a good thing to have. I think I would like you to read this article about Amquel, though. It will apply to any water conditioner that binds ammonia, yet still allows the bacteria access to the ammonia.

http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/Amquel.html

I would suggest that you remove the white chips from your filter. Change out 25-50% of your water. Do not be afraid - the bacteria is not in the water in any numbers worth worrying about unless you used a starter like BioSpira.

If you can, get some more floss from the tank at work. Bring it home - keeping it warm and wet - and place it in your filter on top of the blue cartridge.

If the ammonia clear states that it leaves the ammonia available for the beneficial bacteria to use, feel free to use it as you wish to help keep the ammonia in check.

Then you are going to have to do hard water changes, guard that filter floss like a baby, and treat with the ammonia clear and wait for the cycle to go.

There is one other possibility. There are some types of test kits that do not read correctly with various additives. For instance, your Ammonia Clear may be binding all the ammonia in the tank and rendering it harmless to the fish. The ammonia is still there - it is just in a harmless form. The bacteria can still use it. But your test kit does not know that - it only reads ammonia. What type of test kit do you use?

If you are unsure about what Ammonia Clear is doing or how it is processing the ammonia, I would suggest switching to Amquel+ or Prime. They will do the same job for you and I know they will leave the ammonia available for the beneficial bacteria.

Please post back and let us know how you are doing!

Ok, I'm going to try and answer all the questions asked. If I forget anything just ask it again.

Starting with the white gravel. I'm still not sure what it is since I threw out the box. I can check at work tomorrow, and let you know. I have only had this stuff in there for 3 days, and it doesn't seem to be helping. It is sitting on the bottom of my tank since it wouldn't fit in the filter.

The stuff I'm using to remove the ammonia is called ACE by Jungle. It says it removes Ammonia, Chloramine, and Chlorine from the water. It doesn't say anything about weather it leaves the ammonia available for the bacteria. I have used this stuff 3 times since Saturday. I have tried to get some Prime, but I can't find it anywhere. They use to sell it at nnnnnn, but I have checked all 4 of them here, and they don't sell it. We don't sell it at work either.

The filter floss I got about 2 weeks ago, and only left it in for 1 week. It kind of stunk, so I didn't leave it in long. Plus I didn't know how long it would take for the bacteria to move to my bio wheel. So the floss has been out for at least a week. When I get some more at work, how long should I leave the floss in their tank. I put some floss in their overflow tank, and get it in about 3 days. Is that long enough for the bacteria to move to the floss?

My test kit is made by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. It has a ph (high and low), ammonia, nitrite, and gh tests in it. I have been checking the nitrates with a test stick a lady gave me at nnnnnn. I used the last one of those today, so I will get more from work tomorrow. I have been testing my water daily, and it pretty much stays the same, except for droping down to 0 ammonia twice. I'll test my tap water for nitrates tomorrow when I get home from work, since I'm out of those tests. I'll post the results soon.

I have about 1 inch of gravel, a few live plants (growing form bulbs), and the fish. I haven't added anything else, since I didn't want to mess things up with all the water changes I'm doing. Could the bulbs affect the water?

I have to get going for now, but if I missed anything let me know. I'll answer any other questions tonight when I get back. I'll take the white gravel out before I leave, and also do a 25% water change. If that doesn't help, I'll do a 25% change again tonight. Thanks for helping me guys. I'm getting a little frustrated with this, since I have never had any trouble before.

I took the white stuff out, and did a 30% water change. I retested for ammonia, and it is still at .25. a couple of the fish are starting to show signs of stress due to the long exposure of ammonia. Could a dirty filter make the ammonia levels go up? I have had the filter running for a little over 3 weeks. Should I do another water change? Shouldn't the water changes be making some kind of a difference on the ammonia level? It stays the same before and after I change the water.

Hi again,

Trust Daryl to give a detailed and clear explanation A Good point on the chance of iffy readings.

Good work on removing the white stuff and water changes

I'd change the water again, if your fish are showing signs of stress. A dirty filter could make ammonia go up because there will probably be unprocessed waste building up. Unfortunately, there's not a lot you can do about this because if you remove the waste, you'll probably kill off a lot of your fledgling bacteria.

Could it be possible for you to check your tap water for ammonia? Just to be safe.

Slugger

I checked my tap water, and there is 0 ammonia. Would that be too much of a water change too close together. It has only been about 3 or 4 hours since the 30% water change. I wouldn't think the filter is too dirty, since its only been in for 3 weeks, and the fish get fed a very small amount. I feed once, maybe twice a day, but no more. I appreciate y'all trying to help me with this.

I just did another 30% water change, and then tested it. It is still the same, ammonia at .25. There has to be something in my tank doing this, don't you think?

Hi,

You've got a clean filter, and no ammonia in your tap water (no nitrates as well hopefully).

My guess is that:
1. the nitrate readings are residual nitrates from the old filter floss you had in the tank,
2. your filter is not established because the ammonia source was removed by zeolite(?) and aqua clear,
3. the waste being produced from your fish is not being processed by your filter and the ammonia is building up.

There's not much you can do about this apart from toughing it out with water changes when ammonia levels get too high. You could do as Daryl suggested and switch to another water conditioner that doesn't remove ammonia.

Slugger

I was just adding the ammonia stuff on top of my regular declorinator. How often, and how much water can I change safely. I want to get my beneficial bacteria started, but I don't want the ammonia to kill my fish. Maybe I should take them out while the tank cycles. Would there be enough ammonia in there to get things cycled?

When I cycled my tanks, I changed about a quarter of the water every 2-3 days. This'll drag out the cycle, but I only needed to do this for about 2 weeks. After that, I did a weekly water change.

There is a chart stuck at the top of this water chemistry forum that'll give a safe level of ammonia for each given pH. You can monitor your ammonia, and if it gets high, just do a water change.

Slugger