Has anyone ever seen or used (uses) on of these? Maybe this is a good alternative to a renter like me who can't get those special electrical outlets installed? Do these really work? Convince me to be guinea pig!

http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products/KW/ti...4/Itemdy00.aspx

I have ground probes on two of my tanks. They do remove stray current from the water in an aquarium. My 90 gallon tank has a wet/dry sump type filtration and the main return pump sits in the water in the sump. When I read about stray current in aquariums I tested my 90 GA for stray current and found 5.31 volts in the water using a Fluke 111 Multimeter. After installing a ground probe in the sump, I couldn't measure any voltage using the Multimeter.

You can make your own ground probe for a lot less money than buying one. It's getting kinda late tonight so I'll add instructions for making a ground probe to this thread tomorrow.

A ground probe DOES NOT do the same job as a GFI (Ground Fault Interrupt)receptacle. Living in a rental is no excuse for not using a GFI receptacle where your aquarium plugs into the wall. EVERYBODY THAT HAS AN AQUARIUM SHOULD USE A GFI TYPE RECEPTACLE OR GFI POWER-STRIP. You can buy GFI receptacles that plug into a normal wall receptacle for under $25 at almost any hardware store or home center.

Here's a link that shows a GFI receptacle so you can have an idea of what to look for when you go to buy one.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseac.../11581/cid/3014

WoW! Thanks for the information! I had no idea! I only heard of GFI's last week or so, still was not really clear on them... cannot get them installed.

I will go STRAIGHT to the hardware store tomorrow and get some of these!!!
I printed the picture and I will get some immediately!

Do I need to get one GFI per electrical outlet or one per plug (that would sure take up a lot of space)... Sounds like one per outlet... so, two in my case, or a double one...? The guys at our LHS are very good - I am sure they will know.

I do use power strips with surge protectors. I can just plug the strip intot he GFI?

Maybe this should be pinned... I can't believe I never heard about this stuff before (well, once before in Daryl's post in Horrible accidents) - I wish I had known right away! THANKS for posting about it and including a link - this is right up there, even above, cycling and having enough gallons per fish. It saves lives.

I look forward to hearing about the ground probe - those are some interesting measurements...

Yes, you can plug the strip into the GFI.

I have several of the "plug in" GFIs in places where I have not yet hard wired in a GFI socket. These work very well, with one caution.

The GFI will trip and shut off the power anytime there is a glitch or fault in the current. This can come from current leakage in the tank. It can also come when the power company switches lines or does any of the myriad of things they do that make your lights blink.

A "blink" in the power of a house (or apartment) is usually not enough to cause all the various electronic equipment we all own to reset. It takes a hard power off/on to make them all blink "12am". The important fact here is that they DO blink.

You are used to having things power up after a "blink" or a power outage.

With the plug in GFI, they will not. Once it is tripped, it will need to be manually reset before your tanks (aeration and all) will run again. They tend to be very sensitive and trip on the slightest power glitch.

I ended up pulling all my "tank grounds" a few nights ago during our snowstorm. The power blinked and surged over and over again all night. After getting up 3 times to reset the tanks, I just pulled the grounds.

They are certainly better than nothing, but worth thinking about. There is nothing that can beat a hard wired GFI. I think in most states in the US, GFIs are required in most construction - but your apartments may be grandfathered in.

You can certainly wire one in - just tell the apartment people. It is an improvement - and if you pay for it, they certainly should not complain. My daughter wired her entire apartment when she was at college. (IT really needed it!).

Daryl, if your portable GFCI devices do not automatically reset after a power outage, they are either worn out/damaged or you purchased portable GFCI devices that are specifically designed to require a manual reset after a power outage.

A standard portable GFCI device will ALWAYS reset it's self after a power outage, unless it senses a ground fault.

The type of portable GFCI devices that require a manual reset after a power outage are customarily part of an extension chord and are designed to help people that are working with power tools from getting hurt if the power is suddenly restored.

Portable GFCI devices, that require a manual reset after a power outage, will have that feature clearly marked on the packaging of the device and are not the standard portable GFCI devices.

Bac2it is absolutely correct. I must have a "manual reset" type of GFIs. I do not see on the packages of the ones I have not installed this information, but I am sure that that is what is happening. I am glad to know there are other options. I need to go look harder, I guess!

He is also very very correct in stating that no matter what you decide to use, a GFI is a VERY important thing in a tank. I was zapped not too long ago by a leaking heater. It was not fun and EXTREMELY dangerous.

I guess what I need to take from this is that there are several different types of GFIs available. I, unfortunately, seem to have gotten ones that need manual resetting. If you buy some - make sure they are the ones that Bac2it recommends. I goofed big time!!!!

Sorry - thanks for catching that, Bac2it!

hmm sorry if this sounds like a stupid comment or question, but since i don't undertand electrical lingo i'll see if i understand what y'all are talking about.

so if electricity is leaking, you and your fish can be electricuted (kind of like a hair dryer in water)... and the GFI receptacle thing is like that reset/test thing that new hair dryers have? they'll stop the current if the sense too much is going through?

That's exactly what a GFI (Ground Fault Interrupt)or GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupt) is for. It protects you and your fish from getting zapped if any of your aquarium shorts out.

Now the ground probe is a different creature. It is simply a device that will drain any stray voltage in your tank water into the earth ground of your home. This stray voltage is normally very small, usually under ten volts and it can come from any of the electric powered equipment in your aquarium: lights, pumps, heaters, power-heads, UV sterilizers and it can come from any of them. They don't even need to be touching the water.

There's still some debate about whether or not this is something to worry about, or even if it's in every tank. The people who say it does, make it sound like your fish are going to die if you don't get rid of it. The people who say it doesn't, say it has no effect on your fish what so ever.

Personally, I know the ground probe can't cause any problems so I have them on all my tanks. That way which ever side of this debate is correct... I've got it covered.

I am no electircal wizard (obviously, haha) but now I think I understand what B is saying - the ground probe is different than the GFI. I started asking about the ground probe, whihc goes in the tank to neutralize errant currents that might course through the tank due to submerged electrical equipment...

BUT we started a great talk about the use of GFIs - which is used at the electrical wall outlet (or any outlet) to interrupt the electrical current going to your appliances in the event of an abnormal electrical event - like a massive surge, water damage, etc. Do you remember seeing the plugs in hotel bathrooms with the little red thingy, or a light, on it? It is always on the electrical outlets near the sink in case the hair dryer oir electric shaver gets wet. It prevents you from being electrocuted!

So, anytime water is mixed with electricity, a GFI should be used. Ideally, a GFI should be used all the time! In older houses, they can be added as a permanently wired fixture or by using one similar to the one Bak2it posted above.


My house was built in about 1910! We odn't have 'em! I am not sure that is an investment I want to make right now, to pay for it myself as a renter, as we are palnning to move in six months. But, we will be buying so I WILL have ALL the outlets wired before we even move in! I am off the the hardware store!

(wow - think what having these does for your insurance... maybe a better premium)?

For anybody who is a little handy and wants to save a buck or two and build rather than buy a ground probe... Here's how you do it.

1: Determine where you're going to mount the ground probe. It can be any where as long as it touches the water from your aquarium. It can be in the tank, a sump or If you have a HOB style filter you can even stick it in there. If you have a cannister filter I've found a good place to attach the probe is to the intake tube of the filter. On my 29 GA I drilled a hole, the diameter of the bicycle spoke, in the top plastic molding at the back of the tank and stuck the probe in there.

2: Measure how far it is from where your going to mount the probe to the electrical receptacle where you're going to attach it.

3: Get all the supplies you're going to need.
A. Titanium bicycle spoke. You'll have to go to a bicycle shop to find these. Your ground probe doesn't need to be very long, so get the shortest one they have. It should cost you about $3.00 or less.
Titanium Bicycle Spokes


B. A piece of 18 ga insulated wire that is a couple of feet longer than the distance from where you're going to mount the probe to the receptacle.
C. Two stainless steel nuts and washers that will fit on the threaded end of the bicycle spoke.
D. two ring or blade terminals for 18 ga wire.
Ring Terminal

Blade terminal


E. Silicon sealer, this should be aquarium safe
F. A piece of shrink tubing that will fit over the ring or blade terminals you picked up.

4: Now let's put it together.
A. Cut off the bent end of the bicycle spoke to the length you desire and smooth it off with sand paper or a nail board.
B. Strip off a 1/4 inch of the insulation from each end of your wire and install a ring or blade terminal on each end.
C. On the threaded end of the bicycle spoke thread on one of the nuts, follow this by a washer, then by one terminals of the wire, then another washer, and finally the other nut. Then tighten the nuts using what ever type of wrench or pliers you have handy.
Photo of nut, washer, wire connection


D. Put a gob of the silicon sealer on the connection so it covers the nuts.over the nuts.
E. Thread the shrink tubing over the nuts so that they're about in the middle of the shrink tubing and then shrink the tubing with a heat gun or a lighter.

This is what the connection will look like after the shrink tubing step has been completed.


That's all there is to it. This is what it should look like when you're finished.


5: OK, now let's install it on the tank.
A. Mount the probe in your chosen location
B. Attach the other ring or blade terminal to a ground on the receptacle.

If you have a receptacle that looks like this.


you can attach the ring terminal to receptacle using the screw that holds the cover plate on. Just scrap off and paint that's on the screw first.

If your receptacle looks like this.


You should consider replacing it with a GFCI wall receptacle or a portable pluggin GFI device. But if that isn't possible, you can attach the ring terminal to receptacle using the screw that holds the cover plate on. Just scrap off and paint that's on the screw first.

If your receptacles have only two slots, IM me for instructions

WoW! You are an excellent teacher - that you for taking the time to put pix and all (now I won't spend the whole day in the hardware store ).

Where did you place yours in your tank? Under the gravel? What if you don't have gravel? In a corner?

I got my GFIs today (the "portable type - like the link you showed) and I am feeling very grateful that I know about this now! Thanks, Bak2it and Daryl!

hmm.... with the ground probe... it works just like a lightning rod thingie on buildings right? hmm is it safe to have it grounded on the screw to the outlet thingie?

(i might just be paranoid from being electrocuted)... but is it possible if an appliance maybe gets jostled loose from the outlet that electricity can run from the not-all-the-way-plugged-in plug onto the ground hookey thing?

I think so - good analogy - hopefully, Bak2it will tell us tomorrow!



Again, if I am getting this right, I think that is where the GFI comes in to play - it will stop the current and prevent electrocution if the current becomes unstable...

I don't know if that scenario is enough disturbance for the GFI to interrupt the current... or what would happen in that case without a GFI installed on the outlet.

I thought wise ones never sleep?! But, then again, maybe that is why they are so wise!

hehe yeah bak2it explained a lot of stuff to me about light fixtures for aquariums and UV sterilizers. i told him he was my new best friend. so helpful and full of info. esp. on tank equipment and stuff.

not to say everyone else isn't knowledgable (sp?)... haha. but bak2it basically responded every time i had a question about lighting. such dedication! so nice to have a member like him here to help out ppl like me who don't know diddly!

g'night for now though... i'll check back tomorrow!

I agree - he is an extraordinarily valuable member here! THANK YOU for your care and wisdom, Bac2it.

I loooove having wise ones whose brains I can pick when needed!

DITTO! And Daryl, yours is on of the braings I like to pick!

I want to try and clarify a couple of things about Ground Probes, the types of stray current that can be found in an aquarium, and the use of GFCI devices.

Lets begin with discussing Ground Probes. There are basically two types of Ground Probes. One type has a three-prong plug that you just plug into a receptacle; some of these also come with a ring terminal that uses to the screw holding the cover plate to the receptacle for an attachment point. The second type only has a ring terminal and uses to the screw holding the cover plate to the receptacle for an attachment point. As far as I'm concerned... The only type of ground probe to have is the type that uses the screw in the cover plate for an attachment point.

If you don't want to make you own, you can buy both types here.
http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_miscel...e.asp?ast=&key=

Stray voltage is the next topic I want to cover.

The first type of stray current that can be found in an aquarium is called "induction voltage". This type of stray voltage in reality is very low and DOES NOT normally pose a risk to the aquarist. Under normal circumstances if the aquarist puts their hands in the water they won't even feel it. This type of stray voltage is created by the magnetic fields that are generated by the pumps, heaters and lights that are in contact with or in close proximity to the water in an aquarium. These magnetic fields can (not does) induce voltage into the water due to water being a good conductor of electricity.

There is a lot of debate in the aquarium world about this type of voltage and the use of ground probes. One group claims that the voltage causes harm to fish and it should be removed from the tank with a ground probe. The other group claims that this voltage doesn't cause any harm, but when you add a ground probe it creates current and it's the current not the voltage that harms fish. At this point, I could state my opinion about this and go on. But, I think it would be better if each of you goggled "stray electrical voltage in aquariums" and make up your own minds.

Personally, I don't believe that a ground probe should be used, in an aquarium, without the electrical devices in a tank being plugged into a GFCI device. This is because of the second type of stray voltage that can be found in an aquarium.

I'm going to call the second type of stray voltage that can be found in an aquarium, "direct voltage". This is my term, for this voltage, so I doubt you'll find anything if you go0gle it. This type of voltage is very dangerous and could kill you or your fish.

Direct voltage comes from shorted or damaged electrical equipment that is in contact with the water in your aquarium, or from an electrical device that falls into the water. The danger from this type of voltage comes from the fact: this type of voltage can be static (electricity with no current) in your aquarium.

A bird sitting on a 10,000-volt power line is a good example of this type of voltage. If the bird sits on one wire, the voltage in the wire does not harm it, but if that bird touches two wires it will be electrocuted.

The same situation can exist in an aquarium. Say for example, you have a heater running in the tank and one of the two wires running to the heater becomes damaged.

If there isn't a ground probe in the aquarium, the voltage is static. It doesn't have any place to go so there's no current. Your fish are still swimming around, they might look more than a little stressed, but they're still alive... until you touch the water. When you touch the water you'll complete the circuit and the voltage will go through you to a ground.... ZAP. You'll at least get a good shock, and chances are your fish will be killed.

If there is a ground probe, the voltage will flow from the damaged heater wire to the ground probe and will probably kill your fish, but the dead fish should at least serve as a warning that SOMETHING IS WRONG, before you touch the water.

OK, so here's where GFCI devices come into the picture.

In the damaged heater example above: when you touch the water in an aquarium using GFCI protection but without a ground probe, the voltage is still present in the aquarium but as soon as you touch the water the GFCI device will trip and protect you and your fish. If you have a ground probe installed, the GFCI would have tripped as soon as the wire was damaged.

At this point I have to add that there are some sources on the Internet that are claiming that when a ground probe is used together with a GFCI device that the current can flow from the a damaged electrical device to the ground probe without tripping the GFCI device. The basis of their argument is that the ground probe will somehow feed the current into the neutral buss of the electrical system resulting in the GFCI device not detecting the ground fault. I cannot believe that this can happen. GFCI devices typically test for a hot to ground fault, not just from hot to neutral.

I hope this has answered any of your questions about ground probes, stray voltage and GFCI devices. Iff any of you have addition questions... Just ask

Rick

Printed for the fish file!

I found some portable GFI's today that look like they might be worth adding to this thread - esp. as one of them is automaitcally resetting and OSHA compliant:

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_miscel...ine.asp?CartId=

I was thinking about making the probe thing so my tanks shock free, n iam wondering where i will be able to put the Blade terminal, As my tank is about 3 feet away from nearest plug will it be ok to have 3 feet of wire, And my sockets where my plugs plug into are plastic and have screws like normal but if i put it to these screws will it act as earth, As the socket casing is plastic?

Thanks in advance

By the way these are called RCD's (Residual Current Detectors) or safety switches to everyone not in yank town.