i have a 45 gal tank and a 10 gal tank that are currently ready to be redone with fish. my 10 was a snail tank, but i am going down to just 2 snail tanks now so will have the extra 10 for fish. i had my big beautiful goldies in my 45. they all succumbed to an aweful bout of ick and one by one died. i haven't the heart to do goldies again right now. they just can't be replaced. they were my buddies. anyhooooo... i have done fresh water my whole life and have always played with the idea of sw but they always kind of scared me. i have done tons of reading onoline and i think i am ready to brave it. i know that a bigger tank is more forgiving, but i also don't want to spend so much money and then realize i can't hack it. i also have an idea of what inhabitants i want and don't know if they'd do ok in a 10 gallon. i would like a few shrimp, a blue starfish ( don't know the name of it, saw someones tank with it, gorgeous!) a yellow tang, some "nemo" fish for my son, and maybe a blue or purple fish of some kind. i also like the looks of the soft corals, but not sure as they seem difficult.

so, cna i have that in a 10 or should i bit the bullet and to the 45?

also this might be a stupid question, but everyone keeps saying you can use a HOB filter, but if you have a sand bottom, how do you keep it from messing up your filter? i had a sand bottom with my snails and i ruined my hob filter, kept getting in the motor. could i just do a crushed coral bottom? or could i keep my current gravel?

thanks!
cyndl

I have 3 HOB filters with my saltwater tank but I just keep the intake well above the sand and have never had a problem. HOwever, I dont have the fine white sand, I have coarser crushed coral sand. It isn't white, but more natural colored. The white will not stay white for very long, anyway.

If you are wanting the kind of tank that you saw on Nemo it will have to be at the very least a 45 gallon. Most of those fish grow to be quite large and are very active. And you figure that after getting the rock and decor in there, there will be much less than 45 gallons of water in the tank.

Shrimp and other invertebrates are usually fine once the tank has cycled. I actually cycled my tank instantly with live rock and some shrimp, hermit crabs and a sea star. Thats not really the way most go about it but it was a special situation. Are you planning on using live rock? I would really recommend it as it is a very efficient biofilter. Plus I like the way it looks and it introduces neat creatures into my tank.

The yellow tank gets about 6-8" long and will eventually need a larger tank than a 45. CLowns would be okay though they are very aggressive and intolerant of their own kind. If you want two, introduce them both at once and dont add anymore.

The blue fish you mentioned are either blue damsels or blue tangs. Damsels are very, very aggressive and I would avoid them. Blue tangs are great but very delicate and they get very large. I wouldnt recommend putting one in such a small tank. Many pet stores sell them as quarter sized babies, but many die and a lot of people dont realize how large they get.

The purple fish you mentioned is probably a type of gramma or pseudochromis. They would be fine but you would only want one total. Thats a general rule with saltwater–only one of each kind of fish (an exception would be a pair of clowns).

I would really recommend checking out http://www.reefcentral.com/ as they have a wealth of useful information as well as messageboards, too. Good luck and feel free to ask more questions.

Its always easier to spend someone elses money, but I would go with the 45 gl.

One thing about marine tanks is to take things in baby steps. Only add one fish a week, only add one coral a week, etc. So, you'll spend your money over a period of time. This could be a good thing or a bad thing; just depends on what you prefer.

If you go w/ the ten gallon, you'll have a nano-tank. That means no Yellow Tang (need about 30 gallons ). But, you can still have your "nemos" (True Percula Clownfish).

Also a substitute for your tang would be a Yellow Clown Goby.

Enjoy and good luck.

Doh!

Someone posted at the same time as me.

Another thing, if you go w/ the 10 gl. a beautiful purple fish is the Purple Firefish, and it only grow to about 2 inches.

Just a couple things to add...sand and LR are very good if you are going to keep a reef system...you can use CC - Crushed Coral in a Fish Only tank...even a Fish Only With Live Rock...FOWLR tank....I have CC in my 300 reef but I have a DSB (deep sand bed) in my 75 gal refugium for nitrate removal...

I wouldn't keep any tang in a tank under 75 gal....they just don't do well...they certainly won't thrive in smaller tanks...

Firefish are active and easily startled and I would recommend a larger tank than a 10 gallon. I have one in a 30 and wouldnt go smaller than that. They also need a well covered tank as they are jumpers.

Also, I would recommend definitely not getting any corals for a long time. Reef tanks are a totally separate thing from a fish only tank, and I would get the hang of the fish only first. Reef tanks are also much more expensive–you would want a protein skimmer and high powered lighting, and the tank would have to be completely cycled. Same goes for anemones. I cant tell you how many anemones I have seen die. They are very, very delicate.

thanks so much for the replies and for all the info. i did go over to reefcentral and have already started reading some very interesting articles. thank you for that info. i had been reading on a couple of other sw sites but the info at RC seems to be more complete and helpful. i definitely think i will be doing the 45 gal tank not the ten. i think i may also post some of these questions there and what responses i get. not that the info here wasn't great, it was, just to see other suggestions and ideas as well.

i hope in a month or so to start this adventure and i will try to post here when i do. thanks again!!

cyndl

The Yellow tang will needs a MINIMUM of a 75 gallon tank (4') for swimming... Ask anyone on RC and that is what they will tell you and some will even say more....

As for the clowns... I agree that you should introduce the pair at the same time and try to get them small...

I've been reading on the site lately that clows are aggressive... Not all clowns are agressive... If you are planning on getting some tomato or maroonn clown then yes those are aggressive clonws... But if you are getting some Percs or false percs they are the most peacefull fish I have ever had...

There are LOTS of clown types... What kind were of clown were you planning onn getting for your 10 gallon?

As for corals... Start your tank and let it mature before attempting any coral... (That was already mentioned)



Marc

Just a note on the starfish: I havn't ever kept one, but over on another forum I have read a lot of posts about starfish not eating, killing other inverts, dying and causing water quality chaos, etc...they are not good animals to start with and are pretty fragile.

Donya brought up a good point about the starfish that I forgot to mention. They definitely are very delicate and the tank should be cycled before introducing them.

I think the blue one you referred to is a Linckia species and they can be delicate. Stars will not always eat in captivity. I happen to own a predatory, carnivorous star so it is easy to feed but not all others are.

I also cannot keep inverts like coral with my star as he will eat them.

i haven't specifically looked into the clowns yet. i wasn't aware that there were so many until i started browsing the fish section. they're all so pretty. but i will definitely be researching that cuz i would like at least 2 . as for the stars, i didn't realize they were all so difficult, but i did suspect that they'd be one of the later things i'd put in a tank. i do plan on having live rock. i am a little sad aobut the tang being too big for either of my tanks, but thank you Mfishfor the suggestion of the yellow clown gobby, i found a photo and they are very pretty!! i think that would be a wonderful substitute. and the RC is my new favortie research site! i have just been reading, reading, reading! i have realized that i am not going to get into corals at this point. they are for a more mature tank and harder to keep ( imo) i also have discovered feather dusters!! i think they are absolutely the cutest darn things in the world!! and they live on the LR if i am correct in my understanding. so no coral needed for them.

again thanks for the help. i am having fun just with the planning stage!! i can't wait to actually start doing it! i'll keep you all posted as i go along!

hugs!
cyndl

The feather dusters are so cool! I havent bought a single one but I have probably hundreds in my tank now, just from the live rock! Some people consider them pests but I enjoy them.

One more thing about the clown goby, I would wait until the tank is mature to get one of those guys too as their main diet consists of the live copepods that live on LR. My tank was overrun with pods and my little clown basically cleaned them all out within a few days! I was amazed at how quickly he ate them. So just make sure your tank can support a healthy pod population before getting one. You can read up on RC about making a pod pile. Thats what I have done in my tank to support my mandarin.

The Blue Linckia laevigata feeds mainly on detritus and other organic matter but it will also eat microscopic invertebrates and microalgae. That is why it is important to have a tank full of LR and the tank must be mature so this wonderful animal can thrive....
They are very sensitive to water parameter changes, don't do well with nitrates...so acclimation is key when you first get one...take lots of time and don't expose them to air....

Here is mine out and about...

OMG!!! Reef Man that is one goreous starfish! makes me want one even more!! but i promise i will be patient and wait till everything is right for one to thrive in my tank.

UPDATE: my salt water has been mixed , in the tank and curculating since thrusday with reg. argonite (sp?) sand. Sat we went and bought 6.5 lbs of live rock. we added 3 blue leg hermit crabs, 2 scarlet hermit crabs, one emerald crab, and one camelback shrimp to the tank. so far everyone is doing well. i will wait now and mae sure the cycle is ok before we add anything else.

couple of questions. one what is the best temp for a FOWLR tank? mine is at about 82 F right now. is that ok? also to check the levels, do i have to have special tests for salt water tanks? or can i use the same strips i was using for FW tanks? and at what point can i had one or two fish to start off? ive read that some people actually cycle thier SW tanks with fish, but i thought that that mightnow be such a good idea. that's why i started out with a small amount of very small critters. should i wait till the tank is cycled completely? will it cycle completely without fish? how different is cycling in sw from cycling in FW??


thanks for letting me pick your brains!!

hugs!
cyn

Cycle fishless, preferably without any animals if you can do that. I had no choice but to cycle my pico marine tank with a bunch of small Nerite snails, and that was enough of a disaster...it's very hard to keep the water quality good and still have it cycle quickly. Marine animals are much more sensitive to everything than fw ones. It's much better to add some stuff that will decay and get eaten up by the LR (I've read that a piece of people-food shrimp meat will work). Once the ammonia/nitrate = 0 and nitrates are under control (under 20ppm) that's when inverts should really be added, not before the nitrite and ammonia spikes. You'll have to keep a very close eye on your parameters since you already have inverts in there.



There's an additional step in the cycling. Instead of going from ammonia -> nitrate and stopping, it can actually go from nitrate->N2 gas and thereby get rid of the nitrate. It often doesn't keep pace with the animals though, so you still need some macro algae and/or water changes to keep the tank going.

Just a couple things....Is this the 45 gal or the 10 gal....if it is the 10 gal...you might want to add 4 more lbs of LR to the tank... It is recommended that your tank have a minimum of 1lb of LR per gal...I have about 2lbs. per gal...Remember that your LR is basically your bio-filter for the system.... if this tank is the 45 gal then you are very low on LR...and need to bump that up...

In a salt-water system with cured LR you don't have to wait only a few days to see the cycle end.... you may or may not have an ammonia spike and nitrite spike...but nitrates are the by-product of the cycle....the only way that nitrates are removed from the system is by macro algae, or through a DSB....water changes....and the LR....
You will need different test kits....for SW....the dip and read kind are not that accurate and in a reef system you need to have accurate test kits.... you will need to get a Nitrate, Ph, Alk, and Ca test kits for sure....you can get an ammonia and a nitrite kit if you want but after you have a cycle you will not use them much.... I use a cheap test kit for both of those, and by the salifert test kits for the rest!!!

this is the 45 and i've realized that i am very low on lr. so i went and bought a 16lb beauty!! i went to a different store and thier rock was amazing! actually live things on thier rock! i picked one out that had some white wormy things on it and A FEATHER DUSTER!!!!! of course it's so small you almost can't see it, but it's there!! then while watching it in my tank i am finding all sorts of stuff on it! i see this puffy white looking thing, but it's too small to tell what it is. and i saw this thing scooting along, when i looked really closely it was a sand colored star fish?? but it only had three legs and looked like it was missing one. so it's a four legged star??? what could it be?? anyhooo, this rock has tons of the purple algea on it! my other had white and green on them. then last night i noticed that my power heads now have a dark green algea and one of the smaller first rocks has some red algea growing on it?? are any of these better or worse for the tank? do i need all of them are there certain ones i should get rid of? i read that the prople one is good for the tank or reef or something. anyway, my water as of today finally looks crystal clear! i'll test later again but so far the amonia has stayed in the safe range **crosses fingers**. i'll have to get the better test kits and the ones specifically for alk and ca, but the ones i have say they can be used for sw. but it said that i needed buffer up?? what do i need to do?

ok, i think that's it for my rambling questions right now.

thanks!!
cyn

Cyn - Sorry didn’t' get a notice on your reply....Can you tell me what test kits you are using?? And then tell me what your parameters actually are??? That would help....those stars you are talking about divide by loosing a leg and you will see them with 5 legs, 2 legs, etc...they are good for your system... the algae you are talking about the red slimy stuff is cyno…and you will want to keep that in check...siphon it out and keep your water moving, remove excess nutrients with a protein skimmer and water changes.... etc....

But I can answer these questions but I need to know exactly what your parameters are so I can give you the best answers.....thanks please let us know!!!!