Last fall, my oranda Creamsicle died from SBD. Since then I've really wanted to get another one, but was afraid of the same thing happening.
I was reading emmahj's post on SBD in Treatments and she said it's best to have your nitrAtes below 20ppm max at all times. Now my question is how do I accomplish this? Most of the time, my nitrAtes stay at 40ppm. I don't have a planted tank and really don't think I want the hassle of live plants. So is there another way I can keep the nitrAtes below 20ppm? Will more frequent water changes accomplish this? Usually I perform a 30% water change during the week and a 50% water change with gravel vac (also cleaning the sponge or charcoal) during the weekend. Would it help if I performed 2-3 30% water changes during the week and then the 50%/gravel vac on the weekends? I don't want to over-do it and crash my cycle.
Any advice is welcomed! I really want to give it another try with an oranda, but I don't want to get one and then suffer through it having SBD because of something I did or didn't do right.
Full Version: Nitrates And Sbd
SBD is a complicated condition - one that can be caused or exasperated by many different factors. Nitrate values are only one of the potentially contributing factors.
The body shape of the fish is often a contributing factor. The deep bodied - "fatter" fish tend to have more difficulties. A goldfish has no stomach - they just digest along the entire length of their system as the food passes through. In a very short, fat fish, the intestines and all are squished up into a tight area - and all the kinks and turns can sometimes slow the food process. Whenever food sits and stagnates in the fish, problems can occur. It can ferment - making gas, or it can form a bacteria colony - again causing problems. A longer bodied fish is less handicapped this way.
The genetics of the specific fish also have a lot to do with SBD. If the particular fish has a built in problem with digestion, it will be more suceptible.
Water temp. can play a bit in it - fish are cold blooded and do not digest as well - or move as well (movement helps move things through the system) when it is colder. Some breeds of goldfish need warmer temps than others to thrive. Some individual fish need warmer temps to thrive, also.
Some female fish are more susceptible to SBD - for they may retain eggs. The eggs can rot causing gas in the system or a bacterial infection - both factors in SBD.
Nitrates can cause problems too. There is no magical number where the nitrates are "good" or "bad", though. You simply have to strive to keep them as low as possible. Some fish never show problems with higher nitrate values. Others are very sensitive. It could be combination of physical make up as I stated above, but I also feel that fish that have been exposed to high ammonia, and particularly high nitrites (cycling with the fish in the tank) can pre-dispose them to a life time of difficulties - nitrates being one of the most obvious difficulty. Making sure you never expose your fish to ammonia or nitrites can go far in preventing future SBD.
As far as keeping your nitrates low - well that can be difficult. Some people actually have nitrates in their tap water. They start out with it. Nitrates, of course, are the final result of the beneficial bacteria breaking down the waste in the tank's water. To reduce the nitrates, you need to reduce the waste as well as dilute out the nitrate through water changes.
If your cycle is colonized in your filter - you will not harm the cycle by doing large water changes as needed. The beneficial bacteria do not live in the water. They really do not colonize too much on anything in the tank - in comparison to the numbers they have in a well built and maintained filter media. SO do not be afraid to change out the water as you wish.
Remember that water changes are only diluting nitrates. A 50% water change will only lower 40ppm nitrate to 20ppm. Then the next few days, it climbs again. Do a 50% to 20ppm, another instant 50% change and you are only to 10ppm. Realize exactly what your water changes are doing.
Do you have an undergravel filter? Get rid of it. The waste that sits under there is a nitrate production factory.
Check to make sure you are not over feeding. Too much food will just rot and make nitrate. Feed smaller amounts more times in the day rather than a large amount all at once.
Are your filter pads covered in mulm? Rinse them off - even daily if you need too. That waste is just going to be converted to nitrate.
Do you have a cannister? Clean it out once a week when you maintain the tank. Do not mess with the media - rinse it gently in used fish water, but realize that the reservoir in the bottom of the cannister will collect large amounts of waste. That waste is only going to be converted to nitrate. Dump it out, before it is.
Let a nice green carpet of algae grow on your back tank wall or floor. IF you cannot stand that, cultivate a nice rock full of algae. I have a tank or two where I have a 4-5 inch rock that is a fuzzy green thing. The algae processes nitrates for you.
Nitrate worries should not prevent you from getting the fish that you dream of. Orandas are beautiful, large and robust fish. I love them. Realize that you may not know what happened to your fish before you got him. Realize that you do not know the specific genetic makeup of the fish you get. There is always a chance that you will have troubles. But, in general, you should do just fine with a bit of work and care.
Enjoy!
The body shape of the fish is often a contributing factor. The deep bodied - "fatter" fish tend to have more difficulties. A goldfish has no stomach - they just digest along the entire length of their system as the food passes through. In a very short, fat fish, the intestines and all are squished up into a tight area - and all the kinks and turns can sometimes slow the food process. Whenever food sits and stagnates in the fish, problems can occur. It can ferment - making gas, or it can form a bacteria colony - again causing problems. A longer bodied fish is less handicapped this way.
The genetics of the specific fish also have a lot to do with SBD. If the particular fish has a built in problem with digestion, it will be more suceptible.
Water temp. can play a bit in it - fish are cold blooded and do not digest as well - or move as well (movement helps move things through the system) when it is colder. Some breeds of goldfish need warmer temps than others to thrive. Some individual fish need warmer temps to thrive, also.
Some female fish are more susceptible to SBD - for they may retain eggs. The eggs can rot causing gas in the system or a bacterial infection - both factors in SBD.
Nitrates can cause problems too. There is no magical number where the nitrates are "good" or "bad", though. You simply have to strive to keep them as low as possible. Some fish never show problems with higher nitrate values. Others are very sensitive. It could be combination of physical make up as I stated above, but I also feel that fish that have been exposed to high ammonia, and particularly high nitrites (cycling with the fish in the tank) can pre-dispose them to a life time of difficulties - nitrates being one of the most obvious difficulty. Making sure you never expose your fish to ammonia or nitrites can go far in preventing future SBD.
As far as keeping your nitrates low - well that can be difficult. Some people actually have nitrates in their tap water. They start out with it. Nitrates, of course, are the final result of the beneficial bacteria breaking down the waste in the tank's water. To reduce the nitrates, you need to reduce the waste as well as dilute out the nitrate through water changes.
If your cycle is colonized in your filter - you will not harm the cycle by doing large water changes as needed. The beneficial bacteria do not live in the water. They really do not colonize too much on anything in the tank - in comparison to the numbers they have in a well built and maintained filter media. SO do not be afraid to change out the water as you wish.
Remember that water changes are only diluting nitrates. A 50% water change will only lower 40ppm nitrate to 20ppm. Then the next few days, it climbs again. Do a 50% to 20ppm, another instant 50% change and you are only to 10ppm. Realize exactly what your water changes are doing.
Do you have an undergravel filter? Get rid of it. The waste that sits under there is a nitrate production factory.
Check to make sure you are not over feeding. Too much food will just rot and make nitrate. Feed smaller amounts more times in the day rather than a large amount all at once.
Are your filter pads covered in mulm? Rinse them off - even daily if you need too. That waste is just going to be converted to nitrate.
Do you have a cannister? Clean it out once a week when you maintain the tank. Do not mess with the media - rinse it gently in used fish water, but realize that the reservoir in the bottom of the cannister will collect large amounts of waste. That waste is only going to be converted to nitrate. Dump it out, before it is.
Let a nice green carpet of algae grow on your back tank wall or floor. IF you cannot stand that, cultivate a nice rock full of algae. I have a tank or two where I have a 4-5 inch rock that is a fuzzy green thing. The algae processes nitrates for you.
Nitrate worries should not prevent you from getting the fish that you dream of. Orandas are beautiful, large and robust fish. I love them. Realize that you may not know what happened to your fish before you got him. Realize that you do not know the specific genetic makeup of the fish you get. There is always a chance that you will have troubles. But, in general, you should do just fine with a bit of work and care.
Enjoy!
Thank you Daryl for the advice and suggestions!
I don't have an underground filter, so that's not a problem. I have an Aqua Clear that hangs on the back of the tank. You mentioned the filter pads being covered in mulm...what exactly is that? And when you say filter pads, do you mean the sponge in the filter?
I didn't realize that algae processes nitrates. I have very little of it in my tank, so how exactly do you get it to grow? I always clean the little bits of it off the front and sides of the tank, but not the back. Even though I don't clean the back, there's not alot of it on there and none at all on the gravel. I have noticed some growing on my plants, but not much.
After reading your post, you've inspired me! I'm gonna go for the brass ring and get another oranda. All I can do is try to keep everything as close to perfect as possible and hope for the best.
I don't have an underground filter, so that's not a problem. I have an Aqua Clear that hangs on the back of the tank. You mentioned the filter pads being covered in mulm...what exactly is that? And when you say filter pads, do you mean the sponge in the filter?
I didn't realize that algae processes nitrates. I have very little of it in my tank, so how exactly do you get it to grow? I always clean the little bits of it off the front and sides of the tank, but not the back. Even though I don't clean the back, there's not alot of it on there and none at all on the gravel. I have noticed some growing on my plants, but not much.
After reading your post, you've inspired me! I'm gonna go for the brass ring and get another oranda. All I can do is try to keep everything as close to perfect as possible and hope for the best.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.