OK, most of you who read this board know that I am in the process of moving my four newly adopted commons from a very overstocked 10 gallon tank into a slightly less overstocked 20 gallon. Hopefully, by Christmas, they will be in their final home, a still overstocked but a million times better 55 gallon.

With help from Daryl and silver8328 I had decided to just move all of them from the 10 gallon into the 20, moving the filter and some of the gravel with them to try and retain the cycle.

I was about to do this the other night when I decided to test the ph of the tank. It registered at 6.0! My tap water comes out at 7.2 so I knew I would not want to move them from one tank to the other with such differing ph's.

I am currently testing my tap water, by leaving it sit out and testing the ph at regular intervals to determine how much the ph lowers without the tank stuff even being involved. I will post back when I get the final results, but here is what I have seen so far:

Out of tap: 7.2

6 hours later: 6.8

8 hours later (from original test): 6.6

I am also doing 50% water changes two times a day to try and raise the ph in the tank, and also to keep my ammonia down since I am so overstocked.

Other tank params if it helps:

Ammonia: .25
Nitrates: 10
Nitrites: 0

I use Prime to conditioner the water, does it have any effect on the ph? Is Prime one of the products that causes inaccurate ammonia test results with certain types of tests? I use the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Master Test Kit, for ph, ammonia, nitrates and nitrites. Does that test register ammonia correctly with Prime treated water?

So any ideas about what is going on with my ph, would be greatly appreciated, plus any advice on how to fix it.

My second thing I want to know is related to gravel. To try and retain the cycle i will be moving the gravel from the 10 gallon into the 20. It is smallish black "traditional" looking aquarium gravel. I would like something bigger, especially because my fish tend to suck on the gravel looking for food, and i don;t want any of them choking on it. So I have some medium river rocks to use in the 20 gallon. Instead of mixing the old gravel with the new, I would like to put the old gravel on half the bottom and the new on the other half, to try and prevent to two from mixing together. I am hoping that once the cycle is stable I can remove the small, old gravel and just use the river rocks, so having them as separated as possible seems like it would make things easier. But will having only half the tank covered with the old gravel cause any isses? I didn't think so, but thought it best to ask since retaining the cycle is my number one priority. I figured putting the filter on the oppostie side of the tank as the gravel might help a tiny bit? I know some of the gravel will get mixed, but thought it was worth a try. Also, will removing the gravel later cause any cycle-related problems, or will it be fine if the filter is alredy well established?

Thanks for listening to yet another one of my loooonnnngg posts. I bolded my main questions to try and make this easier to answer. I really want to get the fish into their new home, but I don't want to mess anything up! Thank you!

I will try and answer some of your questions.

Prime will not have any effect on your pH. And the Aquarium Pharm test will give you accurate ammonia results when using Prime.

As far as the gravel goes, I changed out all of my gravel from small "regular" gravel to larger river rock. When I did it, I took out about 1/4 to 1/3 of it at a time about 4 days apart. It didn't cause any problems with the cycle. So if you put in your gravel from your 10 gallon it will not be a problem to take it out later.

Hope that helps.

Sorry I don't know much about pH so I'll leave that to someone else!!

Instead of putting the smaller gravel under the river rocks you could probably just put some of the gravel in a couple foots of panty hose and drop them in the corners. It will help with the cycle and will be a lot easier to get out of the tank when you dont need them in there anymore, you also dont need to worry about the fish sucking them up.

I dont really know too much about the whole ph thing but you probably dont have enough buffer in your tap to keep the ph up, which means you will need to add crushed coral to help with that. You should be able to find it in the marine section at the pet store. Just put some in yet another panty hose and place it in your filter, I dont think you have much room in the ones you have now but maybe you can find some place to squeeze it in.

Thanks to both of you! I'm glad to know the Prime won't affect the ph, and that my ammonia reading are accurate with the tests I am using.

I thought of doing something like the pantyhose thing, but wasn't sure if it was safe, I will definitely do that! I will try the coral thing as well. You are right about there not being much room in my filter, but I can make it work I think. I also will be getting a new filter for the 20 pretty soon, one that does at least 330 gph and will have space for extra media. I have the 20 gallon filled right now, so that ph will drop some after it sits, then I am doing 50% water changes twice daily to try and up the ph in the current tank. It drops really fast though, so I will have to see if I can make it work. If not i think there is something you can do with baking soda to change the ph.

They can stay in the 10 until I get it figured out, I just want them to get in their new home soon! I know they will be a lot happier. :-)

As an update, after sitting for 24 hours, my tap water went from 7.2 out of the tap, to 6.6.

If anyone else has any ideas on the ph stuff, let me know!

Thanks again!

I found this post from toucoifsky, that makes it sound like I could move them right away since they are going to a higher ph:

Goldfish can be moved into a higher ph without problem. They cannot be moved into a lower ph, though.

What I would do, is drain about 1/2 - 2/3rds of the water out of her bowl. Then I would add water from the new tank into the old tank. Add a few cups at a time. Over the course of the afternoon, I would keep adding water from the new tank and fill the old tank, a few cups at a time. That way you will raise gradually raise the ph in the old tank. Then I would add her to the new tank. to do that, I would get a clean plastic food freezer bag, or sandwich type bag and put her into the bag with some of the water from the tank she is in, then float that in the new tank for about 20 minutes to match the temperature.

So, if you take an afternoon, I would think you wouldn't have any problem JMO

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...wtopic=8223&hl=

So as long as I get kh and gh tests, and get a buffer going so the ph remains stable in the new tank, could I just move them now?

Please see my post in the water chemistry forum, called Ph Problems, it has all the updates in it, thanks!

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=37932

I should have said the post I referenced above has the updates, and more importantly, more questions! Anyone who is good with ph please check it out, so i can get my fishies moved. Thank you!