I know there's a million similar topics, but I couldn't find one with the exact symptoms.

Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - 10-20ppm
pH - 7.8 or 8.0(has been up to 8.2 before)
pH from tap - 7.2(hmm...)

20 gallon tank running for maybe a couple months or more... long enough to get cycled
Filter - Aquaclear 30 gallon, 150 gph
Water changes - ~40-50% every 3 or 4 days

Three fish, two medium sized and one small(I know....)
Water conditioner/additive - Prime and 1% salt
Medications - none
New fish - no
Food - Tetrafin Goldfish Crisps as staple, occasional peas and bloodworms

Physical - Slightly frayed caudal fin on small celestial, but he is very healthy otherwise
Behavior - Fantail has been unusually inactive for the past 3 days since I did a waterchange. Today, after doing another waterchange, he became even worse, just sitting in facefirst in the corner. Oranda sits with him usually, although he is slightly more active. Both have an occasional(every 10 minutes maybe, although I haven't sat and watched them for that long) spasm and begin darting. Fins are not clamped, breathing looks normal and aeration is good. Gills, coat, and fins look normal.

As I've typed this, he has begun moving a bit more. Could it be shock from the waterchange? He didn't look so great even before it was done.

I'm heading out the door for some Parasite Clear, but I'll wait for your advice before using it. Thanks!

I couldn't find any Parasite Clear, but I got some Jungle Labs food for internal parasites.

He looked a little better when I got back and came to the top for some food, but a minute later, he was right back in the corner.

Also, he loves searching the gravel and ends up getting it stuck in his mouth many times daily. He always is able to spit it out eventually, so I don't worry about it. Plus, I'd never heard of a a fish dying from choking. Is it physically possible for him to swallow a piece of gravel large enough to get stuck in his mouth? And would it cause the symptoms he's displaying?

Hi greenhands - how long have you had your fish? Parasites are usually introduced at some stage so my questions are:

- any new plants added?
- any new fish ie. 3 or so weeks ago

Do they spit out their food? Are there any red marks on the body? How does their poop look?

The reason I ask is that when they display head down, tail up - it may be due to bacterial infection and yes, it may have been brought on by parasites.

So - are you able to put medicated food on the shopping list also?

Please post back soon

You posted before me

If your fish is constantly getting rocks stuck in their mouth, then my suggestion would be to remove the offending gravel and try to replace with something that won't get stuck.

While getting a rock stuck in the mouth isn't necessarily at death knell - it can cause internal lacerations leading to ulceration - and this can kill them.

If he's flashing, then something may be irritating the skin - so you may try salting your tank to 0.3%. I'm not sure about the internal parasite meds... I believe they're good for worms etc... but salt could help with any external parasites.

I would still try to get some medicated (bacterial) food - it could well be an infection he has.

I came downstairs a few minutes ago, and he's looking ten times better He's swimming and eating actively. He and the oranda still dart and twitch occasionally. I'm hoping that all it is is shock from the waterchanges since my pH is screwy.

There are no new plants and the last fish was added well over a month ago.

Physically they look well and are not spitting out food.

The fantail's poo looks normal, although my oranda has a history of abnormal poo. A few weeks ago he had white stringy poo which went away on it's own. Nowaday's he has bubbles in it because he loves sucking air from the surface to "chew" on it. Aeration is good, so I think he's just a nut.

I will seriously consider changing the gravel type(he is trying to spit one out as I type), although I hate having to destroy part of the bio filter. But if it's for the best...


Thanks so much for the advice. I think I'll watch him a while and see how he is in the morning before medicating.

If/when you decide to change your gravel, taking out 1/4 to 1/3 at a time like 4 days apart or so shouldn't disrupt the bio filter. I think it was daryl who told me that only a small percentage of the biobugs live in teh gravel. Makes sense since many people go barebottom.

And glad your fish is looking better!!

Thanks for the kind thoughts and that's great advice about the gravel.

Great news this morning... all three are looking happy, healthy and active. I've got to believe that my suspicion about water change/pH shock was true. They're still about 85% and still a little jumpy, but no spasms or lethargy.

I'm so relieved because these little dudes are the last fish in the world that deserve to be sick. Of course we all believe that about our own fish!

I'm so please for you

If your ph fluctuates - especially quickly, then yes, this can cause erratic swimming. Ph swings will make the skin tingle/irritate so keeping it as stable as humanely possible is the best cure for them

And I agree, no fish deserves to be sick - they're all so precious

Yes, I suspected the ph swinging is the culprit, otherwise it sounds like you have a good grip on everything. Invest in a gh & kh test kit in regards. Ph swings are generally easily controlled with good old arm & hammer baking soda.

Not only do the fish use the calcium and magnesium, the filters will do it also along with some binders as well.