Hi!

I was given 3 large goldfish last night in a cooler. They have not been very well taken care of and the tank broke. I think they've been in the cooler for almost 2 weeks??? Not sure.

I have always had fresh water fish and now have saltwater too, but I've only had one goldfish and he was in my community tank.

I have been reading your site and know now that I need to go get bigger rocks than I have, no heater, change 35-40% of the water weekly, soak the food and siphon the bottom to keep it cleaner.

My questions are:

What temp is a good range?

Feeding every two days seems odd, so I'll verify that too.

I only have a 10 gallon and a 15 gallon hex. Apparantly they need a lot of surface. My hex is taller and has less, but these fish are about 2 1/2 to almost 4 inches, so I planning on the 15 gallon for now just to get them out of the cooler.

They're clearly very strong, but not at the moment after moving them and the recent trauma, so I hesitate to move them today. Should I just get them out of there, or wait???

I was planning on using some of the water from my freshwater tank to help cycle, but I add freshwater salt when I change that water. Would that help them or hurt them? It's 1 heaping tablespoon per 5 gallons.

Last, should I go ahead and totally set up the new tank and float them for most of the day to get them used to it, or start with adding some better water to the cooler for now?

Thanks for your help!
Fishy1

1. Are your tanks cycled
2. Do you have everything for the tanks, filter, airstone, tubing, etc.
3. What type of goldfish are they

Firstly, you don't need a heater. Feed them everyday, only what they can eat in a few minutes.
Put them in the 15 gallon, if it is not cycled, change 30% of water each day to keep ammonia down.
Aquarium salt, if that is what you are using is good for them. Using the water from your other tank is not going to help to cycle.
If you can use the filter from your other tank, not sure what size it is, And this will help cycle the tank quickly.
You could set up the 15 gallon and make sure that the water is same temp as the tub water and then you can put them in. Put a little extra water conditioner in the water to help with the stress of the fish. It might take a while but they should be ok once they get used to the new tank.
Just make sure you change water daily and clean gravel once a week. Do not change the filter cartridge for awhile, until cycled.
Get water testing strips to keep an eye on the levels of ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite. Once there is no ammonia or nitrites and 5-10 nitrates the tank is cycled. It might take up to 2 months, so be patient.

Thanks for your advice so quickly!

I already have all of the equipment I need and am farmiliar with cycling, but am disturbed with thier condition and am wanting to do something faster than would be wise. The tank i will be putting them in has been empty for over a year, so it is not cycled.

They were kept next to a window and water is still very cold (up to 64 now) and there is not enough in there (they're only in 2" of water) for me to add it to the new tank a it cycles. Since these will be the only fish in there, should I add the old (very dirty) water they're in to add bacteria? Just some?? The thing I'm really trying to avoid is shocking them to death!

She said they were feeder fish initially.

I was using a small bio-wheel and a power head in that 15 gallon tank previously, but the bio-wheel is not working I just found out. I have a split tubing system I was planning in putting in for more air, but will have to get a new filter. My other tanks are 44+ gallons, so that stuff is to big. I was thinking of using the double tubing and a new filter without the power head. What do you think? I will be sure to not change the filter, thanks for that!

Do you think an under gravel filter would help? It seems nobody uses those anymore, but they do trap some dirt. I am going to go get just enough rocks to cover the bottom and hold a few live plants in.

I'll be sure to change the water daily, add buffer and clean it weekly with my other tanks. I have all the testing kits I'll need. I'm off to get a filter, rocks and gel food.

If you think putting them in the tank tomorrow is to soon, please let me know. I'll be more specific on the filter when I get it, bit will probably get another Penguin bio-wheel unless it's suggested otherwise.

Thanks again!
Fishy1

Hello and

Looks like you have your hands full with your new fish but it looks like you're getting things under control.

I am fairly new here so I can't really answer your questions--sorry. I do know that undergravel filters are not recommended on this site for goldies. I don't think they work well enough for all the waste that is produced by goldies!!

Good luck with your new fish!

Undergravel filters are more of a pain than anything, you would regret using one. It is not to soon to add your fish and do use all the water they were in. Feeder fish can get pretty large, they are common goldfish and need room. The 44 gallon would be good to put them in, if you want to wait then you can since they are still small but it won't be too long before you will have to put them in a larger tank. For fancy goldfish they say 10 gallons minimum, but actually it is 15 gallons, for commons they need more, so the 44 gallon is great size for them. They will get huge and beautiful. If you can't afford a good enough filter for the 44 then hold off and cycle the 15 gallon. My goldfish have no heater, it can get a little cold in the winter and quite warm in the summer but i have left them alone and they are fine. No worries about the temp, just make sure water you put in tank is same. If you have thermometer that is great, if not use your hand to see if water is same temp. It works pretty good for me. If it is a touch warmer that will be fine, but not too much warmer.

Hello all, thanks again for your advice. I am happy to say they're doing a bit bettter, but still have a few questions.

Unfortunately my other freshwater tank is at maximum capacity, so adding them would really create problems. I cannot afford a new tank yet, but realize they are actually about 4" to 5" each, so plan on getting a bigger tank within a month. I think I'll put them in my 44 gallon bow and get a bigger saltwater tank.

Would they be happy if I make an indoor pond with a black edge and a lot of top area, or do will that drive them nuts? I would put lots of plants in so they would hopefully not feel claustrophobic.???

I added some water to the cooler yesterday because the nitrite was at 100 or so. They seem happier, and I will keep adding water to that until I put them in the tank tomorrow (it has not cycled yet).

She said one of them gets crooked or rounded when it's in too deep of water??? They are only in about 4 or 5 " now, but what do I do in that case and how do I solve that?
I found out they have been eating from the top; could it be a bubble?

They are also used to about 62 degrees since being in the cooler (2 weeks)? I know that's really low and wonder how fast I can warm it up without making them sick.

Hello all, thanks again for your advice. I am happy to say they're doing a bit bettter, but still have a few questions.

Unfortunately my other freshwater tank is at maximum capacity, so adding them would really create problems. I cannot afford a new tank yet, but realize they are actually about 4" to 5" each, so plan on getting a bigger tank within a month. I think I'll put them in my 44 gallon bow and get a bigger saltwater tank then.
OR
Would they be happy if I make an indoor pond with a black edge and a lot of top area, or do will that drive them nuts? I would put lots of plants in so they would hopefully not feel claustrophobic.???

I added some water to the cooler yesterday because the nitrite was at 100 or so. They seem happier, and I will keep adding water to that until I put them in the tank tomorrow (it has not cycled yet).

I had the under gravel for that tank, so I put it in, but got a bio-wheel to actually clean it more. It sounds like the siphoning and bigger water change is the key anyway.

She said one of them gets crooked or rounded when it's in too deep of water??? They are only in about 4 or 5 " now, but what do I do in that case and how do I solve that?

I found out they have been eating from the top; could it be a bubble?

They are also used to about 62 degrees since being in the cooler (2 weeks)? I know that's really low and wonder how fast I can warm it up without making them sick? I have an old heater that can slowly change the maximum daily heat increase.

Okay, thank you, thank you, thank you to ALL of you!! It's just details now thanks to your advice!

Fishy1

Hi! ! Good for you for taking those three goldfish! they do sound like they need some help - FAST! A cooler just isn't going to cut it for three 5 inch comets! but, you already know that because you came here!

First off, the 44 would be fantastic for them! But, if you do not have it available right away, another great, not too expensive, and easy re-useable solution is to get a big rubbermaid tub form the hardware store! Since you mentioned that you could do an indoor pond - here is a link to a pond I have that would suit the need and is also reasonably priced and easily converted to another use later:
http://www.petsolutions.com/popUPpond-I-30790028-I-.aspx

I can't even use the one I have - I'll send it to you! I would recommend the 45g.
If you use a tub or a rubbermaid then you can bolster the sides with bungee cords form any hardware store.

The main thing would be to get the fish outta the small cooler as soon as posible. If you cannot afford a 400gph filter right away, then I would suggest that the bigger the "tank" you can get them in, the better! More water means more dilute toxins - you will just have to change it 50% everyday until you get a filter.

It looks like either way you are going to have to cycle. The water they are in right now is not cycled - it is just plain bad. I would slowly add water the container they are in until you can tranfer them to a larger coontainer of similar clean temperature and pH matched water. Adding a bit of salt won;t hurt either - at the rate of 1 teaspon per gallon of water.

I would not bother with the UGF. it won't do much of anything until it is cycled so it won't make much of a difference now. I would concentrate - as you put it perfectly - on clean water right now! Water changes and some TLC are what these guys need!

Sinking pellets are better food for goldfish - you are right again, surface feeding can cause air to get trapped inthe swim bladder causing flipping. But, so can high Nitrates! A harder condition to reverse. So, I would get them asap into a bigger container of fresh water, feed sinking pellets, and definitly add an air stone.

Warming the water slowly would be nice for them although tey are dclearly used to the low temp - however, it is hard to tell their reaction because they do not have enough room to show you if they are moving around or not! I mean, if the container is small, then they are sitting on the bottom with clamped fins because they have to! So, ideally about 72-77 is great for GF - but as long as it is done gradually, it is safe - the problem is a sudden and dramatic change (>2 degrees, for example).

I am trying to answer all your questions but I have to admit I got a little confused about what the exact plan is now... I would really like to help you get them settled - because it was so nice of you to try to help them!

PS - I can spell but I am a terrible typist -please excuse. I try to correct but I don't catch everything.

Hello!

They're doing great now and I'm transferring them into the 15 gallon tonight; I wish I had thought of the tub!

My only question now is the fish that gets bent when the water is too high. What is that, an air bubble in the swim bladder or was it the nitrite level? In either case I don't know how to fix that. Any ideas?

Oh, that pond is PERFECT!!! WoW! That's what we need, as long as the black sides will not make them feel claustrophobic. I'm planning on adding a small pump to the bottom and having a trickle fall about 4' high, but need to research that more before we make one. GREAT, thanks!

Thanks for everything! This site is really great.
Fishy1

GREAT!

I forget to respond, as paltry as my answer is, to your question about the "bent" fish and water depth... cannot help you there... I can suggest that you make a post in the Pond and Koi section becuase people there will have more experience with depth issues (most GF tanks are standard sizes and not very deep so I am not very clear about the question...) If no relies there I would try contacting KoiVet.com, PondRx.com, or Goldfish Connection at goldfishconnection.com.

How is your set-up coming along?!?!?! Wanna hear all about it!

I thought I had responded to this earlier - now I remember... I was having trouble with the site = and I re-typed my reply like four (annoying) times and then gave up! I wanted to say two things:



1)
I would not worry about the claustrophobia or color issues of the indorr pond -w hile fish can see some color, fresh water and space is a priority for them and they will thrive with both of those! Also the addition of plants will be a big advantage as far as WQ and a "natural" environement" for the fish - plus they look great!

I would DEF add a pump, meaning hopefully a filter of some kind, at least a power head with a spitter - and an air stone or some other type of aerating device. A trickle fall will help to provide aeration by increasing surface turbulance, so the higher the better as long as it does not create too much disturbance for the fish.

2) NitrAtes are suspected to have a correlation with SBD (swim bladder disease aka flipover or floatiness). This has yet to be proven but is a well-established theory. NitrItes can do a lot of damage, like ammonis, but usually much more quickly and much more lethal - not present in a cyled tank or pond.

It does sound as if the fish came have an history of chronic high nitrAte level exposure... perhaps the one fish in particular cannot over come it? In my experience, some fish are more susceptible than others but once developing SBD due to high nitrAtes, they have a reaction whenever the levels increase...

Fish that feed from the top can develop inflated air sacs from ingesting too much air - so understanding how they were fed previously would help clear up this issue! If you can feed the fish some peas (forzen peas, buke for 30 secs, remove the "hull", then halve, feed peas) this might help reduce buoyancy.