OK, I am new here and to good goldfish keeping, and I have a filtering question.
I just adopted four HUGE commons, which right now are way overstocked in a 10 gallon tank, while I cycle their new home. Three of them will be moving into a 20 gallon tank, and one will stay in the 10. (Yes, I know still overstocked, but better, they have lived in the 10 gallon for 8 months)
Right now I have a Whisper 40i 170 gph on the 10 gallon. I was thinking I would move that over to the 20 once the the tank has cycled. I have a Whisper 20i 125 gph to put in the 10. OR since I will be overstocked in the 20 should I buy a new, better filter for the 20 and leave the 40i in the ten gallon? If so, what kind? I don't have too much money to spend, so it can't be too fancy.
Second question, I am wondering if I should remove the undergravel filters in both tanks? They have the grid thing on the bottom, with two tubes that come up and have a filter-y looking thing at the top with black rocks in them (carbon?) Sorry I don't know the technical terms for any of that stuff. I have heard good and bad things about undergravel filters, so I am wondering if I should keep them in there or not, and in the 10 gallon, if I remove it, will it mess with the cycle?
Thanks for any advice, I am learning SO MUCH here!
~Jen
Full Version: What Kind Of Filter Should I Get?
I don't know much about undergravel filters, but I believe they don't do much as far as filtration with goldfish. Hmmm the filter rearanging is up to you, but either way, you probably want over 10X the gallons for each tank, especially the 20 gallon since they are overstocked. Either way, you'll need one more filter. A good and reasonably priced filter is an aquaclear...they are very nice filters.
I would remove the undergravel filters. There are ways of running them successfully with goldfish, but you probably do not want to get into it....it is far cheaper and easier to simply run HOB filters on your tanks.... 
The main problem with standard UGF is that they collect all the waste and gunk under the plate where it is supposedly processed. The main problem with removing or cleaning under this plate is that all the waste and gunk is collected under that plate and it is really nasty - and has the potential to be toxic to your fish when you release it to clean it.
To get rid of the UGF I suggest that you do the same thing you did when you moved the fish. Get a tub or somesuch container that can hold most of the tank's water. Dip or syphon out enough water into the tub so that the fish can go in comfortably. Take the water off the top of the tank - do not syphon and clean the gravel at this time. When the fish are in the tub, take out as much of the rest of the water that is in the tank as you can - taking only the "clean" water from the top. Remove all plants, decorations. Now you can scoop out the gravel into another container. When you lift the UGF plate you will be greeted by an amazing smell and nastiness. This needs to be cleaned and rinsed out. Clean the tank, rinsing it nicely. Now you will wish to wash the gravel as you put it back in the tank. Use some of the water you have placed in the tub with the fish - to avoid killing any beneficial bacteria that is residing in the gravel. Rinse and dump. Rinse and dump. When the gravel is relatively clean, it can be put back in the tank. Put back the deco, and plants. I like to put back in more of the "old" water from the tub - so the tank has about 30% or so of the old water in it. Then you can fill the tank up with new, conditioned water. Run the filter, put the fish in and you have successfully removed the UGF.
As far as the filter issue, it comes down to the fact that you are going to need to add a new filter to your collection. You have two perfectly fine ones - nice good filters. Use them both. Add another. IF the fish are big and strong, you can leave the 170gph on the 10 gallon (give them someplace to rest with the current blocked) and move the 125gph to the 20. You can then buy any filter that is at least 125gph, one that you like - price wise and construction-wise. I would suggest getting one that gives you room for plenty of biomedia - one that has more than just a biowheel. A good sponge filter, a PEnguin, or one of many brands will suit your purpose very well. I am fond of filters that allow me to have a biowheel, and a place for biomedia to be stuffed into it - not just a cartridge. That media can be sponge/ceramic/etc. Your choice. Having space for biomedia that does not ever have to be removed is a good option. That way you can change or clean your cartridges or filtering material as you wish without worry of distrubing your cycle.
If you wanted to get a single filter that will handle the 20 gallon nicely by itself, an Emperor 280 is a great filter. BUt it can be a bit pricey, and you do not need to have only one filter on the 20. You can combine two filters just as well.
Depending on where you shop, you can find things at very different prices. BigAls supposedly has very good prices. Look around. I have found great deals on filters here and there when I least expect it.
The main problem with standard UGF is that they collect all the waste and gunk under the plate where it is supposedly processed. The main problem with removing or cleaning under this plate is that all the waste and gunk is collected under that plate and it is really nasty - and has the potential to be toxic to your fish when you release it to clean it.
To get rid of the UGF I suggest that you do the same thing you did when you moved the fish. Get a tub or somesuch container that can hold most of the tank's water. Dip or syphon out enough water into the tub so that the fish can go in comfortably. Take the water off the top of the tank - do not syphon and clean the gravel at this time. When the fish are in the tub, take out as much of the rest of the water that is in the tank as you can - taking only the "clean" water from the top. Remove all plants, decorations. Now you can scoop out the gravel into another container. When you lift the UGF plate you will be greeted by an amazing smell and nastiness. This needs to be cleaned and rinsed out. Clean the tank, rinsing it nicely. Now you will wish to wash the gravel as you put it back in the tank. Use some of the water you have placed in the tub with the fish - to avoid killing any beneficial bacteria that is residing in the gravel. Rinse and dump. Rinse and dump. When the gravel is relatively clean, it can be put back in the tank. Put back the deco, and plants. I like to put back in more of the "old" water from the tub - so the tank has about 30% or so of the old water in it. Then you can fill the tank up with new, conditioned water. Run the filter, put the fish in and you have successfully removed the UGF.
As far as the filter issue, it comes down to the fact that you are going to need to add a new filter to your collection. You have two perfectly fine ones - nice good filters. Use them both. Add another. IF the fish are big and strong, you can leave the 170gph on the 10 gallon (give them someplace to rest with the current blocked) and move the 125gph to the 20. You can then buy any filter that is at least 125gph, one that you like - price wise and construction-wise. I would suggest getting one that gives you room for plenty of biomedia - one that has more than just a biowheel. A good sponge filter, a PEnguin, or one of many brands will suit your purpose very well. I am fond of filters that allow me to have a biowheel, and a place for biomedia to be stuffed into it - not just a cartridge. That media can be sponge/ceramic/etc. Your choice. Having space for biomedia that does not ever have to be removed is a good option. That way you can change or clean your cartridges or filtering material as you wish without worry of distrubing your cycle.
If you wanted to get a single filter that will handle the 20 gallon nicely by itself, an Emperor 280 is a great filter. BUt it can be a bit pricey, and you do not need to have only one filter on the 20. You can combine two filters just as well.
Depending on where you shop, you can find things at very different prices. BigAls supposedly has very good prices. Look around. I have found great deals on filters here and there when I least expect it.
Thanks for all the great advice! The only thing I don't like about the Whisper filters I have now is they are the in-tank type, and in the ten gallon that takes up a lot of room! But I think I will leave the 40i in the 10 gallon, even though it takes up a lot of space, and buy a new, more powerfuil filter for he 20 gallon. Removing the undergravel filter will help with space I think because those tubes won't be sticking up in the back anymore.
I priced a few filters today, although I don't remember seeing the Emperor one you mentioned. Here is what I found:
Penguin 200 Bio-wheel Power filter 200 gph $39.99
Aqua Clear 50 Cycle guard w/ Bio-max 200 gph $37.99
Cascade 300 Bio-falls Filtration System 300 gph $49.99
Whisper 60 Mechanical/Chemical/Biological Filtration 330 gph $41.99
I thought those might be good for the 20 gallon, and they are all the out-of-tank style. I will look for the Emperor you mentioned as well. I planned to check online prices (at Big Al's and other places) for all of them anyway, since I know they can probably be found cheaper.
I keep hearing that you want to have a bio-wheel...is the bio-falls and bio-max stuff mentioned in the other brands the same type of thing? I wasn't sure if bio-wheel was specific to the Penguin brand or if it was a particular type of filter part.
One more thing, I have stuff crammed in my filter in the 10 gallon tank, trying to get bacteria to cycle the 20 gallon the way you explained in my other post. In case I have to wait awhile to get the new filter, I may use the 40i filter in the 20 for a bit, and the 20i in the 10 So once the media has been in the 10 gallon filter for 2 weeks like you said, can I move the entire 40i filter over to the 20 and put the 20i filter in the 10 with the transferred media? Will that work? If I am confusing you, just let me know. I will probably be able to get a new filter before then anyway.
Also, sorry for putting this in the water quality forum when it should probably be in Tanks & Equipment, that is what I get for posting so early in the morning, and before having any caffeine! I guess it IS technically related to water quality, but I meant to put it in the other section.
As always, thank you for your great advice.
I priced a few filters today, although I don't remember seeing the Emperor one you mentioned. Here is what I found:
Penguin 200 Bio-wheel Power filter 200 gph $39.99
Aqua Clear 50 Cycle guard w/ Bio-max 200 gph $37.99
Cascade 300 Bio-falls Filtration System 300 gph $49.99
Whisper 60 Mechanical/Chemical/Biological Filtration 330 gph $41.99
I thought those might be good for the 20 gallon, and they are all the out-of-tank style. I will look for the Emperor you mentioned as well. I planned to check online prices (at Big Al's and other places) for all of them anyway, since I know they can probably be found cheaper.
I keep hearing that you want to have a bio-wheel...is the bio-falls and bio-max stuff mentioned in the other brands the same type of thing? I wasn't sure if bio-wheel was specific to the Penguin brand or if it was a particular type of filter part.
One more thing, I have stuff crammed in my filter in the 10 gallon tank, trying to get bacteria to cycle the 20 gallon the way you explained in my other post. In case I have to wait awhile to get the new filter, I may use the 40i filter in the 20 for a bit, and the 20i in the 10 So once the media has been in the 10 gallon filter for 2 weeks like you said, can I move the entire 40i filter over to the 20 and put the 20i filter in the 10 with the transferred media? Will that work? If I am confusing you, just let me know. I will probably be able to get a new filter before then anyway.
Also, sorry for putting this in the water quality forum when it should probably be in Tanks & Equipment, that is what I get for posting so early in the morning, and before having any caffeine! I guess it IS technically related to water quality, but I meant to put it in the other section.
As always, thank you for your great advice.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.